On the subject of approaching BASC and the like, what about NFU (Mutual)? given the nature of NFU and the vast majority of bushcrafting done "on permissions" maybe it would come under their scope? As you may offering pest control to farmers etc etc (shooting, rabbiting, etc)
Learnt a bad lesson today
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Come along to the amazing Summer Moot (21st July - 2nd August), a festival of bushcrafting and camping in a beautiful woodland PLEASE CLICK HERE for more information.
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Elen Sentier
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
While I hear what you're saying I have to ask, is woodcarving not work then? Like writing isn't work to many folk ??? Do you have to be a full-time carpenter to be a woodcarver? Many of those on here who sell spoons and stuff do other jobs besides, the making of spoons etc is still part of their "work". The words say "work" not "lawful business".
I should add that I'm also an artist, I use a knife as part of my kit in grinding up paint ... do I need to beware of this too every time I go out to paint in a field, wood, river or mountain? Because I'm not a full-time paid-up member of some artists' union does that mean art and the need for a knife is not part of my work ???
That box is getting too damned small again, I really think we need to work on making it bigger.
"Hobbies" and "Sports" are allowable. I dare say that if mouse had been going fishing for trout and had a filleting knife, it wouldn't have been confiscated.
He's had the misfortune to run into a police officer and sergeant who don't accept that bushcrafting/green woodworking are hobbies.
He's had the misfortune to run into a police officer and sergeant who don't accept that bushcrafting/green woodworking are hobbies.
I'm skim-reading most of this but did see mention of carrying a card and raising media profile. ***?
Just imagine, I'm a thug and I like carrying a knife around. I know, I'll get me one of them there bushcraft cards to give me a measure of exemption.
Again, raising it in the media - bushcrafting would be another excuse for wrong 'uns to use for carrying a blade.
Just imagine, I'm a thug and I like carrying a knife around. I know, I'll get me one of them there bushcraft cards to give me a measure of exemption.
Again, raising it in the media - bushcrafting would be another excuse for wrong 'uns to use for carrying a blade.
Exactly the problem, there is no clear definitions as far as the police and law are concerned, too much of it is subjective interpretation of laws that are not clear and concise. Today I have a nice chat with a police officer about where I'm going and the bushcraft I'm doing, tomorrow I bend over for the latex glove and all because I am either in a different county or the officers view of the law is different or he/she simply had a bad day. It is far too foggy an issue that is wide open to all manner of mishaps. This leaves me wondering if my perfectly harmless and legal past time will end in a pleasent walk or a jail cell.
I really can't think of any other activity I can indulge in where I am open to such a wide variety of responses from an officer of the law, and all due to inconsistent regulations.
If I the OP I would be complaining about how I was treated by the officer on the ground. His reason for confiscating a ''blade over 3 inches'' weren't justified. If his reasoning were sound he would likely have charged the OP. My understanding is the OP has made such a formal complaint already.
My next complaint would be directed against the Superintendent who has presumably understood the situation and decided to back his officer despite the fact the officer has got it all wrong. Inexcusable.
Copper decides he doesn't like my jeans so he confiscates them even though wearing jeans isn't illegal. Superintendent, for whatever reason decides to back his officer even though he understands said officer is wrong. I'd be wanting my jeans back and I'd be wanting to stand up for my rights, and I'd be wanting my name cleared of any wrongdoing.
It must be said I don't have kids, no mortgage or debt so I might have less to lose than others. Standing up to the man on principle is a sure fire way of alienating oneself which could lead to future problems. I've seen it all before but at my stage in life I would take that route. Had they confiscated my knife without giving me a warning I would have let it go but I'd have to fight the warning on principal.
I wouldn't hold it against someone if they didn't though. Having a bunch of police as an enemy aint nice.
My next complaint would be directed against the Superintendent who has presumably understood the situation and decided to back his officer despite the fact the officer has got it all wrong. Inexcusable.
Copper decides he doesn't like my jeans so he confiscates them even though wearing jeans isn't illegal. Superintendent, for whatever reason decides to back his officer even though he understands said officer is wrong. I'd be wanting my jeans back and I'd be wanting to stand up for my rights, and I'd be wanting my name cleared of any wrongdoing.
It must be said I don't have kids, no mortgage or debt so I might have less to lose than others. Standing up to the man on principle is a sure fire way of alienating oneself which could lead to future problems. I've seen it all before but at my stage in life I would take that route. Had they confiscated my knife without giving me a warning I would have let it go but I'd have to fight the warning on principal.
I wouldn't hold it against someone if they didn't though. Having a bunch of police as an enemy aint nice.
absolutely, that is the point excactly, and to those who have said there are no clear definitions for carrying a knife they are wrong, it is absolutey clear, to quote gov.uk ''it is illegal to carry a knife in public without good reason'', therefore to carry a knife in a bag from home to a place where one has written permission from the landowner to practice any legal hobby such as bushcraft/fishing/woodcarving or any other legal hobby of chioce can in no way be interpreted as anything other than good reason, (THE HOBBY IS LEGAL - IT IS LEGAL TO GIVE SOMEONE PERMISSION TO PRACTICE THAT HOBBY ON YOUR OWN PRIVATE LAND - IT IS LEGAL TO OWN AND RETAIN A TYPICAL BUSHCRAFT KNIFE IN YOUR OWN HOME - THEREFORE TO TRANSPORT THAT LEGALLY HELD KNIFE CONCEALED IN A BAG/RUCKSACK TO ANOTHER PLACE WHERE IT WILL BE USED LEGALLY WITH WRITTEN CONSENT FROM THE LANDOWNER IS ABSOLUTELY GOOD REASON. mouse is clearly innocent of any wrongdoing and the police are clearly guilty of acting with prejudice to a law abiding citizen. https://www.gov.uk/find-out-if-i-can-buy-or-carry-a-knife
Not neccessarily that they didn't recognize the axe was a potentially more dangerous weapon; it's also possible that they thought he had a more justifiable reason for said axe. At any rate that's likely what they'll argue. Not saying that it's neccessarily true but that it IS an argueable point. Just having good reason isn't enough in a court; you also have to be able to articulate it convincingly enough to sway a judge over the opposing side's arguements. The police are practiced at this. That's another reason a solicitor is a must.
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Anything to do with the press, media or any form of rasing the profile of carrying a knife for bushcraft would be a major mistake, in my view; nobody in any media is going to raise any issue to do with knives in a positive
light, given the current attitudes which have themselves been whipped up by those very media. The press in general will do whatever they see as being in their best interest, as they always have, and will Never admit , even tacitly, to having been wrong - and this would be the implication were they to support a case such as this, even though it is the right thing to do.
light, given the current attitudes which have themselves been whipped up by those very media. The press in general will do whatever they see as being in their best interest, as they always have, and will Never admit , even tacitly, to having been wrong - and this would be the implication were they to support a case such as this, even though it is the right thing to do.
widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May I clarify something for everyone? There is currently no official "warning" for on the spot "reprimands" i.e. a telling off. There are absolutely NO legal implications from a warning. It is not a caution and will not show up on PNC check and in most cases is unlikely to even show up on the Force's own intelligence system!
A warning is not an official sanction, it is an officer's discretion.
I will not comment on the rights and wrongs of the story as I wasn't there and I have often found that with 2 different accounts the most correct version often lays somewhere in the middle of the two.
A warning is not an official sanction, it is an officer's discretion.
I will not comment on the rights and wrongs of the story as I wasn't there and I have often found that with 2 different accounts the most correct version often lays somewhere in the middle of the two.
I think you misunderstood, I didn't say woodcarving isn't work. But just because I carve a spoon around the campfire doesn't mean I'm a carpenter and have a right to carry knives around. It's a hobby and not my main vocation.
So when you go out and paint you need a 6" fixed blade knife with you to grind paint?
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Quite often they don't however they are very good at convincing you they do so you'll gratefully take 'advice', confiscation of your goods or worst still a caution as a we've done you a favour son....
noooo, to open tins, cut dust sheets, cut wallpaper, cut open blister packed brushes.....and so forth
Ok I'm going to stick my neck out and have a rant at the risk of becoming an unpopular member
I posted my orrigional comments because I was plagued by several emotions from being very angry to very upset and quite honestly i believed that people on this site would understand my frustrations .
I never at any point had bad feeling towards the police and there ability to serve the community as a whole I feel I have just fallen victim to a single persons uneducated understanding of a law and for this I'm annoyed ?
I feel I have to make the comment of I think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill as I have only had one other person come to me with a similar tale of there event ( an art student in fact ) and wonder why there seems to be a huge debate upon this as a problem for us all
Is this a problem for us all a single act surly it is a problem when there are 10 of us with similar problems and then I for one would stand on the front line waving a flag in recognition. But as it stands its a could of , would of should off sinario
On the other hand I do agree that a better inderstanding of the knife law is needed (hence my liking the knife law card idea ) as I large point that has only been mentioned in passing is that if I myself had understood the law better I probably would of been able to react in a different way and maybe at that point the outcome would of changed
So in reflection I believe that the best thing that could possibly come out of my bad experience is for other members on this forum to take a little time to educate themselves on the law so that they are more able to deal with a similar situation if indeed one arises
I'm sory if this offends the stand up and be counted of us but I can assure you no one on this forum is more upset by my experience than me I just feel that an element of over reaction by others has been had
I posted my orrigional comments because I was plagued by several emotions from being very angry to very upset and quite honestly i believed that people on this site would understand my frustrations .
I never at any point had bad feeling towards the police and there ability to serve the community as a whole I feel I have just fallen victim to a single persons uneducated understanding of a law and for this I'm annoyed ?
I feel I have to make the comment of I think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill as I have only had one other person come to me with a similar tale of there event ( an art student in fact ) and wonder why there seems to be a huge debate upon this as a problem for us all
Is this a problem for us all a single act surly it is a problem when there are 10 of us with similar problems and then I for one would stand on the front line waving a flag in recognition. But as it stands its a could of , would of should off sinario
On the other hand I do agree that a better inderstanding of the knife law is needed (hence my liking the knife law card idea ) as I large point that has only been mentioned in passing is that if I myself had understood the law better I probably would of been able to react in a different way and maybe at that point the outcome would of changed
So in reflection I believe that the best thing that could possibly come out of my bad experience is for other members on this forum to take a little time to educate themselves on the law so that they are more able to deal with a similar situation if indeed one arises
I'm sory if this offends the stand up and be counted of us but I can assure you no one on this forum is more upset by my experience than me I just feel that an element of over reaction by others has been had
Nothing offensive there - you brought the problem you had to the group & I thank you for it, as you say at least it raises awareness and lets people think ahead for if it happens to them. I think the wallet card is a damn good idea (especially as I have been known to forget to take my penknife out of my pocket when going to the football - where a search is more likely).
the wallet card is an awful idea, it would be the first step to it being compulsory and even more rerstrictions leading in the end to a total ban which is what the police really want if they can get away with it, i say NO don't volunteer your liberty away, some people would volunteer for a permit to breathe.
I think you've missed the point - it's not a permit or anything approaching that - it's a quick reference to the actual law, which will let the police know that you're far less likely to accept the 'warning/caution' and could lead to a lot more paperwork especially if they apply their knowledge of the law wrongly. It can and has been invaluable to me in the past in different situations.
Elen Sentier
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Appologies if I misunderstood you and no, it's a 3" fixed blade, the Mora is too big for that although good for other work. the fixed blade is much safer in my arthritic hands than a folder. You need to chop bits off blocks of ore, ochre, etc, then chop it finer for griniding. IMO I have a right to carry a knife around for my work whether I'm an "official" (???) carpenter or butcher or whatever. Or a spoon-maker. And BTW art is part of my living not a "hobby", as is spoon-making for many. And why should it be wrong to carry for private work (a hobby) but OK for official work? Do we all have to cut our "hobbies" down to official sizing? It does get my hackles!
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