Pauley's knee pain query please help

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Sep 17, 2012
8
0
swansea
Hi Everyone
Could someone please advice.
I do some light gym work and I am a novice at moutain hill climbing. My friend and I did a 10 mile treak around Pen-y-Fan Horshoe route in Brecon Beacons - there are four peaks and teh highes is PenyFan at around 2900 feet. I had a backpack on about 7-9 pounds in weight
Going up was fine apart from having to stop to get my breath and legs being heavy but made it and thoroughly enjoyed the trek.
I do not use any poles although seen a lot of people on this walk with them.
On the way down I guess I was using the same lead leg and looking back now after some reviews, I think I may have been bit heavy on the feet on the way donw, not sure.
I have never had any knee injury and as I say the ascent was fine. The problem began on the way down which is rather steep in that my right knee began to ache and it was aching initially on the outside. From what I have read, it sounds like it could be the Iliotibial band (IBT) problem)
Anyway I tried altering my lead leg, tried going sides ways but the pain was still there.
As time went on, the pain in the right knee was complete (describe later) it then began in the left nad knee starting at the outside.
The trek was 10.5 miles for 7 hours.

By the end, it was extremely painful to even walk down any descent, I was almost hobbling with the pain on every step. If I stopped and stood still, there was no ache or pains, it only began once I began to descend again, knee after knee!

The feeling of the pain was asif it was then inside, all I can describe it as a feeling of, one can imaging like to upside down capital T together, I mean as if its bone on bone with teh pain feeling radiating inside but started from the outside.

There is no swelling, no pain on the knee cap, no problem squatting or kneeling. If I press on the nobbly bit on the outside of each knee, I can feel a tender bit but not as painful as it was.

A few days later, I am as if nothing has happened apart from I can just about feel the slight pain beginning as I walk down a few flights of stairs.

On searching google, there seems to be a lot of comments on runners knee and painful knees on descending but they then talk about all these fancy knee problems that leave me stunned as to what my problem was

Would anyone have any idea as to what my problem was with my description. Any tips on what I can do to try to stop or minimise this from happening again?
Thansk in advance
PS teh views were fantastic as the weather was really good
 
It's a nice area and one which I've been away from for too long :(


... Any tips on what I can do to try to stop or minimise this from happening again?

Go and see your doctor ~ a bushcraft forum on the internet really isn't the best place to seek advice or diagnosis of injury or illness.
 
Use poles, they make a big difference on ascent and descent.
what age are you? it all gets more painful as we age and if you aren't used to it, it will be very much more troublesome on the knees.
Even when I was fit and doing hills,the descent could be a right pain at times.
 
Could be a few things (and I'm no medical expert, although i have a history of various knee issues!). ITB that you mention is one, essentially a slow swelling, which once it gets to a certain size it starts rubbing on bits inside your knee so the pain comes on very quickly. It also tends to go fairly quickly when you slow down or rest though. Anti inflammatories help with the speed at which the swelling occurs, and the speed of recovery. There are plenty of stretches too which genuinely help matters, and I found a foam roller to be the miracle cure for this (cheap too). You tube will have plenty of demos. If it's ITB, then that's kind of good news to be honest.

Other possibilities are a little more involved- i also suffered from torn cartilage within the knee, which was essentially creating a 'flap' that was irritating the knee. Sometimes with torn cartilage, you can experience your knee 'locking' too. Key hole surgery is one option for trimming that.

Another drama i was having was to do with my gait- feet rolled one way, which meant knees rolled the other, and then the hips rolled the other way. Custom insoles and correctly supportive footwear (with soles that aren't heavily differentially worn) help.

The other issue which is relatively easily solved is due to the 'tracking' of your kneecap- it essentially moves up and down in its own little channel with each step. If your upper (usually) or lower leg muscles are particularly powerful, and also tight, then that will cause the kneecap to track slightly to one side or the other, eventually causing discomfort. Physio (damn painful actually) one per week for 8 or so weeks helped loosen my muscles off and made a massive difference. The aforementioned foam roller is another way of achieving this, and i use it to maintain the flexibility of my leg muscles- a couple of times per week is enough.

health warning on the above- i have no qualifications relating to this whatsoever- just personal experience of my own particular dramas.
 
I do some light gym work

In addition, following your gym work, make sure you stretch off properly. Not doing so can build up tight muscles, which can lead to knee problems. Depending on your line of a work, a lunch time gym session, followed by an afternoon sitting at a desk is a prime contender.
 
I'm no doctor and have no idea of what specifically has gone wrong.

The advice about poles is excellent IMO. Whatever your knee problem, they will reduce the impact and wear on your knees and give a host of other benefits to boot.

Personally, I won't go into the mountains without them now.
 
When was this walk? It could well be a case of using some muscles more than normal and you just have a bit of pain that will go on its own.
 
I was thinking IT Band as soon as I started reading that. I have had problems on a couple of occasions...one being this weekend at the Great North Run. Possible culprit may have been the very steep descent in the last mile and I absolutely fly down it every year (comes from the fell running) and I was in agony walking home afterwards. Right as rain now though, wears off very quickly for me.
 
I was thinking IT Band as soon as I started reading that. I have had problems on a couple of occasions...one being this weekend at the Great North Run. Possible culprit may have been the very steep descent in the last mile and I absolutely fly down it every year (comes from the fell running) and I was in agony walking home afterwards. Right as rain now though, wears off very quickly for me.


Running on a slightly unlevel surface is bad for ITB- e.g. on the camber towards the edge of roads.
 
See a sports injury specialist, they will probably be more helpful than your GP, who might just guess it's an "itis" of some sort and give you something to reduce swelling or alleviate pain. You may need some manipulation of the muscles in the thigh (including manipulation of the IT band) in which case you would be best investing in half an hour of an osteopath's time.
 
Hi everyone

Once again many thanks for all your advice and comments - very much appreciated. Hope I do not start an argument off though LOL
I understand everyone is not a Doctor but the advice and comments are valuable though
Ok, I am 43 years old. Have never had knee pain like this before until I did this Pen-y-Fan Horshoe mountain hill climb/walk which involved the 4 peaks.

(buchephalas - we went from Neuadd Reservoir to the base of the diving board then up the diving board which was a killer, back down again, then up the next one onto the peak before penyfan, we then went down to the base of pen-y-fan , up pen-y-fan , then up corn ddu and walked along the ridge and down the steep slope near the connifer trees back to the reservoir) Weather and views were fantastic but clouded from PenyFan) enjoy! basically went anti-clockwise route. Can you tell me the name of your two neoprene knee braces. Would you wear these for all the walk duration??

I do not feel that I need to go to the Doctor as pretty much the pain had easied as soon as I finished the walk. I was stiff walking for the rest of that evening and part of the next day but now two days in and I am fine. It was just on the descent that started the knee pain of which was more than a pain it was very painful and was hobbling on the last descent, dunno what I would have done if there were more distances to travel with more descents!! Glad my knees did not lock !

Thanks for your comments everyone re using the trekking poles. Sorry for being dumb but how exactly do they work or how will they work in taking the starin or load of my knees?? Is it a case that when one uses the poles, they place them on the descent and do I then lean on them to take the weight as I place my foot down onto the ground rather than as I probably did, in stomping my leg and foot down, probably straight as well.

I was thinking of leaving it for a few weeks to ensure there is nothing going on with the knees and perhaps go on a more gentle local walk with a small incline to get the legs fitter and training before attempting pen-y-fan horshoe again. I want to do the same route again at some point but may do the reverse route next time and go from there, hopefully before Xmas.

If it was he IBT band that was the problem as it started to ache and slowly progress to the inside of the knee, there was nothing I could do to make it any better with trying to walk sideways, use my stick branch ( I must have looked like a Druid!) walk zig zag, go straight down etc. as I mentioned before as soon as stood still there was no pain atall but the moment I lifted my leg and placed the leg and foot lower to the next ground level in descending, it was that lead leg that had the excrutiating pain, then as the behind leg repeated what the lead leg was doing, oh boy it hurt again.

If I stretched a bit and tried to build up my quadriceps, would this help at all?

With this being my first big mountain walk hill climb I do not want it to be my last as really enjoyed it. Perhaps I /we did too much as it was not just up one mountain and back down but up and down fourpeaks. I think one of teh peaks, pen-y-fan I read before was an ascent of 1500feet?

Thansk everyone, look forward to hearing from you
thanks
 
Sorry forgot to add:

Is there any mileage in taking a couple of anti inflammatory tablets (Ibrufen) just before and during the walk to help reduce any inflamation?

thanks
 
Sorry forgot to add:

Is there any mileage in taking a couple of anti inflammatory tablets (Ibrufen) just before and during the walk to help reduce any inflamation?

thanks

Do you not think that perhaps your body is giving you pain signals and inflammation for a reason? If you mask it, do you not think you will do yourself more damage?
 
trying to diagnose an ailment from the internet is never a good idea. you always end up with only months to live. as such self medication is maybe not the best path to travel down.

if its only an issue when youre doing longer walks, i'd suggest you stick to shorter ones and see if you can build up your range without experiencing pain.

if it persists, GP with a request for a referral to a specialist.
 
Hi nomad
Yep i do agree and probably best idea to do a smaller one in about month i guess once properly healed snd go from there.
Ill get some poles too
Not sure exactly how to use them properly down hill
Do you live in wales.just wondering if you can suggest any smaller mountsin hill climbs nearby?
 

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