Natural Shelter and leaving no trace (Small Rant)

[Grooveski]

Used to be one of my pet hates but got fed up of being annoyed by them. Modern desensitised me just shakes a head and walks on by(which is a bit sad).

Still get peeved when they're in broadleaf wood and well-peeved when live trees have been used(which happens more often than not). That's the crux of it really, how was the wood obtained?

Have seen a landowners reaction to coming across someone's left-behind handiwork - and given that Scott shares our interests and has no problem with folk camping on his land I imagine his anger was relatively subdued compared to most. Still wasn't pretty though - far too many wee hazel saplings had been hacked down that time in the name of one mans fun way to spend the night.

Will be back in the Argyll Forest Park at the weekend. Shelter central, left behind by military and civilians alike.
It's a plantation though halfway through it's cycle, I barely even notice them there anymore. There are copius amounts of deadfall and stunted Spruce and Pine which the FC have no interest in and when the area is cropped it'll be post-apocalyptic so a few old trunks rotting in a pile are the least of the areas worries.

Would only dismantle one these days if it was on the land at Loch Fyne(where I know the landowners opinion) or if it were somewhere I really thought it shouldn't be(little islands on lochs - I think folk feel secure that no-one's going to happen across them and go a bit axe happy sometimes).
There's no doubt in my mind that abandoned shelters annoy landowners so agree with those who say that it's the few spoiling things for the many. We're a point up here where the recent open access laws are being questioned by nigh-on everyone so the less mess left behind right across the board the better.

Crikey, that turned out longer than I thought it would. Perhaps I'm not over the pet hate bit after all.

 

[Sappy]

I like how people try to make a very clear distinction between children making dens and bushcrafters going about the serious business of shelter building.

What we call thermal a frames or lean tos, we simply called dens, no distinction really, built loads of them as a kid and spent many nights in them.Now we are older we can't be building dens, people pay money to learn to make what kids do without much difference.

As long as you've not lashed the framework up madly, all that's needed is to removed the ridgepole and give the resulting mess a few swift kicks and its gone.

 

[Tengu]

But why do we even `need` to build shelters?

thats something I have never sussed.

 

[santaman2000]

But why do we even `need` to build shelters?

thats something I have never sussed.

For the same reason we do "bushcraft." It's fun.

 

[pango]

Used to be one of my pet hates but got fed up of being annoyed by them. Modern desensitised me just shakes a head and walks on by(which is a bit sad). / We're a point up here where the recent open access laws are being questioned by nigh-on everyone so the less mess left behind right across the board the better. /

Hey Groovski, I know what you're saying man, but shaking you're head and walking away is no longer an option. None of us go out looking for trouble, in fact, just the opposite, and that is what drives our walk-away tendency.

We Scots are privileged to have quite a remarkable piece of legislation almost unique outside of Scandinavia, and it's being threatened by loutishness which is intolerable in any town. Some have argued that it's hard to catch the Numpties at it... yet much of the vandalism people are complaining about is done at the bonfire no more than 20 yards from the parked car while the offenders, and this is criminal behaviour, are screaming at the top of their voices while chopping down trees to the accompaniment of dance music, and generally behaving in a way that would, had they stayed in town, have seen them in Police cells for the weekend, their cars crushed and their dugs put doon, and all in full view of anyone taking an interest.

The problem area most publicised was, I believe, the east shore of Loch Lomond, from which a bonfire can be seen for miles around. This was happening on cue, every weekend and yet little was done to ensure a presence able to enforce the law. The Police probably have better things to do with their time, but if it isn't a National Parks Warden's job to patrol and enforce regulations, then they're not worth having!

To quote from the National Parks website,
"Rangers are the eyes and ears of the National Park Authority as they are out and about in the National Park most of the time. They provide a contact between visitors, local people and the National Park Authority."
Curious that I've rarely seen one more than 100 yards from their Land Rover!

This brings me to the point that there were certain Governmental Agencies, or elements within them, which were opposed to the Scottish Land Reform Act (2003), and I'll take a lot of convincing that some are not playing the game of sabotaging what others worked long and hard for! And that's exactly how some people employed in Governmental Agencies behave!

Our only defence is to take their registration numbers (no, not Civil Servants and Park Wardens, the Numpties!), record a Grid Ref and lift the phone to the Polis to say that you're acting in defence of the law!


Oops, I seem to have gone on a rant without the use of a single expletive!

Ahem... Gang Huts... I remember as a laddie being infuriated that so called adults kept vandalising our gang huts... some were on a pit bing, fer f#sake (that's a coal mine spoil heap, for the uninitiated). That's when I developed my hatred of golfers, as those pink-twin-topped hooligans could see us going in from below on the Leven Thistle golf course.

I well remember the shock when in occupation of our top secret howff one Sunday afternoon, in which we swore an oath of vengeance against anyone divulging its whereabouts, when my mum turned up to tell me my tea would be ready in half an hour!

Kids rarely build howffs, hideouts and gang huts these days, and I take a dim view of the pathetic efforts that I do rarely come across. But whether they're torn down or not surely depends on the location and materials used.

Cheers,

Pango.

 

[Grooveski]

Hey Groovski, I know what you're saying man, but shaking you're head and walking away is no longer an option. None of us go out looking for trouble, in fact, just the opposite, and that is what drives our walk-away tendency.

If you're meaning approach someone at a camp they were creating then we're not really talking about the same thing. I was talking more about just coming across old melting messes.
Have never bumped into anyone making one, only ever see the results and none have ever been anything to be proud of. Any that would stand any length of time have involved cutting live wood and those that are proper debris shelters tend to rot within a couple of years.
The situation I was thinking of was coming across one of these messes and deciding whether to spend ten minutes tidying it up. Over the years the number of messes has increased and my tendancy to stop has decreased.

A common sight that rankles every time is crossbeams tied to live trees and left. It's usually cheap nylon rope that lasts a good few years and the tree ends up having to grow round the rope.
There was another effort on the lochside at the weekend. New from last year, some rearranged trunks and remnants of builders tarps. Didn't stop to look at it but could see from the water that it was just another abandoned shambles.

 

[Harvestman]

I'm finding these "shelters" built in nature reserves, where there is public access but no camping or fires allowed. As a warden, I have to take them down, and I will be having words with someone if I find any actually being built.

I have nothing against them in principle, but they are being built in areas that are supposed to be 'wild', or at least 'managed for wildlife' where they are just an eyesore.

 

[Teepee]

These are some of many left in a National park. I'm no fan, I'd rather them be knocked down and see less human influence on the landscape. There is enough already.

These are far from isolated, I could take a hundred different pictures.

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

Thats about my experience of t hem too. What is with the logs with square holes bored through them, I have come across a few of those on the sites?

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

These things, this is an old one but I have seen them about a bit - what is this for?

 

[Robbi]

never seen that before

 

[Dartmoor navigator]

This was in proximity to to some old shelters - in and arboretum!!! I have seen a newer example about 1km away from taht one where there is a whole stack of shelters (all poor examples) with fires, rubbish etc. I was interested in how they cut throug the log and wondered if it was a technique for building a long term bed platform?

 

[Grooveski]

I like how people try to make a very clear distinction between children making dens and bushcrafters going about the serious business of shelter building.

It is a bit amusing. I've noticed it before on the forum as well.
Comments like "I'm sure none of the members on here...." or "It sounds like the work of kids..." hold no water at all. The only requirement for joining a bushcraft forum is having an email address for registration and I don't remember instantly being installed with the knowledge and moral values of a thousand combined outdoorsmen when I clicked the 'join' button.

Having come across other remains of general bushiness at some of these trashed camps(bowdrill spindle, hoof fungus remnants, log mallet, spoon blanks) I don't buy the "It's not us" theory. Also(like Pete's photos) some(not many) of them have been fairly well constructed in their day and speak of full grown adults with the strength to move and hold in place fairly chunky logs.

The first few replys on this thread were worrying. Folk should leave up shelters because uncle Ray sat in an old one of his and waxed lyrically about how he hoped it may have been of assistance to some totaly imaginary poor lost soul? That's the advice "serious bushcrafters" are giving?
To hell with that.

I've nothing against debris shelters, been a long time since I made one but I know how nice a project it is and can see why folk want to do it.
I also recognise that some may be there with permission and intent. We've the wee stone oven on the foreshore so I'm also guilty of leaving traces at a regular campsite. I accept I'm not without sin.
...but making the effort to go to a beautiful place then leaving that sort of mess behind just in the name of practicing a hobby isn't on. Personaly I hope that the reason so few of them appear well constructed is that the folk who are making the good ones are the same folk who have the decency to dismantle them when their done.

 

[rik_uk3]

Leave them be, they will fall down and rot in the end, in the meantime the wood is drying nicely They are doing no real harm other than offend your eye.

Good enough for Ray Mears and Les Hiddins to do, good enough for me.

 

[mountainm]

Leave them be, they will fall down and rot in the end, in the meantime the wood is drying nicely They are doing no real harm other than offend your eye.

Good enough for Ray Mears and Les Hiddins to do, good enough for me.

+1 as long as there's no builders tarp or nylon rope involved...

 

[Grooveski]

Leave them be, they will fall down and rot in the end, in the meantime the wood is drying nicely They are doing no real harm other than offend your eye.

Good enough for Ray Mears and Les Hiddins to do, good enough for me.

...and the eyes of the landowners.
...and the eyes of park authorities who have to dismantle them for you for fear of them landing on someone when they come down(because as you say, they all come down in the end).
...and the eyes of anyone who passes later.

Seems like a lot of eyes to be offending just for the sake of a night out(when ten minutes is all it takes to tidy up after yourself).

But hey. Uncle Ray and BushcraftUK's self-appointed voice of reason say it's fine, so that's that then. Enough said apparently.

 

[mountainm]

...stop the madness...

Always stick to the path
Don't pick anything
Don't climb over fences
Don't build dens
Don't explore
Don't have fun.
May as well stay in and play computer games.

 

[Grooveski]

...stop the madness...

Always stick to the path
Don't pick anything
Don't climb over fences
Don't build dens
Don't explore
Don't have fun.
May as well stay in and play computer games.

Don't know where you read any of that. Certainly wasn't on this thread.

Tidy up after yourself!

That's all anyone is saying. Odd that it seems such a strange concept.

 

[mountainm]

Don't know where you read any of that. Certainly wasn't on this thread.

Tidy up after yourself!

That's all anyone is saying. Odd that it seems such a strange concept.

I've never made one myself - but in our local woods it's the kids that do it. They tend to do a good job too they're certainly not eyesores and not hurting the trees or surrounding environment. Only dead wood has been gathered and put in one place, instead of being scattered around. They could scatter it around again but I suspect they use them on a regular basis when they're playing in the woods. And I see no harm in that.

 

[superc0ntra]

@Teepee: That's beyond shelter, I've seen houses smaller than that.