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Following on from the Who's camping in Whareham Forest thread, (by the way, apologies if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intention, sorry guys) but one of the reasons it's so important not to blatantly encourage breaking of the law is that as a couple of friends of mine actually work for the FC, while I don't know any user names, I do know for a fact that the FC does watch the forums, just to see what people are getting up to, so please lets all think about what we're saying. Tony could get in some serious trouble if it was ever thought that the forum was condoning this kind of actitvity as he is the owner of the forum and therefore ultimately responsible for it's content.
 
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Ed

Admin
Admin
Aug 27, 2003
5,973
37
51
South Wales Valleys
And i'd also like to add we have rules here about the discussion of illegal activities..
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=45
Rule 5. Obey the law .....
It is the responsibility of the members to ensure their activity (particularly in the members classifieds section) conforms to all UK laws. This will be enforced rigorously.
So please guys and gals... can we keep it legal or you will just get your post moderated or the thread locked or deleted entirely.

Thanks for your time.

:)
Ed
 

BlueTrain

Nomad
Jul 13, 2005
482
0
77
Near Washington, D.C.
That which is not required is forbidden (strictly forbidden)!

I thought I might pass on some of the rules about using National Parks in my neck of the woods here in the United States.

First of all, you can't do just anything you want, contrary to what some may suggest, just like in the U.K. Unfortunately, the situation appears to be getting worse but not necessarily in the way you might think I mean. But first let me explain some differences.

There are national forests and there are national parks. The national forests are theoretically intended for multi-purpose uses and generally are. There are limits on camping but generally the attitude is a lot different from national parks. You can have campfires and you are not required to camp "out of sight." I don't know about the permit situation, however, but you cannot camp just anywhere. There are a few shooting ranges in the George Washington National Forest but I've not been to one. Otherwise, regarding firearms, all other laws apply, especially game laws. Also contrary to what others may suggest, there is no reason to have a firearm anyway.

The national parks and here I am mainly referring to ones like Shenandoah, east of Washington, D.C., are supposedly recreation oriented, though they sometimes go to some length to make that difficult. You can camp in the backcountry with a free permit but there are no cleared places that are really good and safe to put up a tent. So, you pretty much have to camp under the trees, which makes me nervous on a windy day. All in all, the camping regulations suggest that people really ought to stay out of the park. With that comment out of the way, there are generally good lodges in national parks that are a great way to spend a weekend, especially if you don't care for sleeping on the ground (under the trees). You also can't have a fire except in very limited places and you can't stay more than two nights in one place.

The National Park Service seems to be going through the mill right now. I believe there are fewer rangers around and trail maintenance, except for the Applachian Trail, is not what it used to be. The reason for fewer rangers is, I suspect, a more important requirement for rangers elsewhere. Then, the fees have gone up. It costs $10 for entrance by car and an annual pass is $30, which really isn't so bad, provided you make it up there often enough. It even costs extra to use a certain number of especially popular trail. Otherwise, you can walk in for free just about anywhere and the camping permit is still free. These comments probably apply to any similar park although there are all sorts of other parks within the NPS system, like National Seashores.

Sometimes you hear stories about illegal activities going on, like growing illegal plants (imagine, making a plant illegal!), though drunkeness is likely to be a more realistic problem at large campgrounds. Otherwise I doubt anything dangerous or harmful goes on in the backcountry, which is not to say everything is always strictly legit. Oh, yes, the parks have designated wilderness areas but I refuse to admit that they are in fact, wilderness.
 

moduser

Life Member
May 9, 2005
1,356
6
60
Farnborough, Hampshire
Generally speaking I honestly believe that peoples frustation comes from having so few places in the south of England (this may also be true in the rest of the country) where wild camping is allowed and as a consequence take the easy (sometimes illegal) option. I'm guilty of this myself.

I know it has been talked about before but a registry of areas and sites that allow people to practice their craft in an honest way would be extreamly useful.

If said registry included landowners contact details then even better.

I hope I'm not being too naive but I welcome other peoples opinions.

David
 

JoshG

Nomad
Sep 23, 2005
270
1
36
Stockton-on-tees, England.
moduser said:
Generally speaking I honestly believe that peoples frustation comes from having so few places in the south of England (this may also be true in the rest of the country) where wild camping is allowed and as a consequence take the easy (sometimes illegal) option. I'm guilty of this myself.

I know it has been talked about before but a registry of areas and sites that allow people to practice their craft in an honest way would be extreamly useful.

If said registry included landowners contact details then even better.

I hope I'm not being too naive but I welcome other peoples opinions.

David
I completely agree with you, there are pretty much NO places in the north where wild camping is allowed. The site is either privately owned, or is owned by the FC. Asking permission would surely result in a swift "no" as pumbaa said. The FC would not say yes just incase every tom, dick and harry came and pitched their tents in a forest. As moduser said, most people end up taking the easy option and are going covert (most likely illegal) out in the wild.

I think this registry idea is great.
 

Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
6,456
1,294
Aylesbury
stewartjlight-knives.com
Jon,
Am I right in thinking that FC workers look like this?

treebeard.jpg
 

gaz_miggy

Forager
Sep 23, 2005
165
1
39
Hereford
this permit idea isnt a bad idea if its somthing you love doing then whould be willing to get a permit fishermen need a permit. i do airgunning to and the goverment is talking about making you register if you have an air gun me personaly i wouldnt care becuse u shoot with in the law and responsibly its people who abuse the law that are complaining(sorry went off topoic there a bit) basicly all im saying is that ifs some thing you realy enjoy doing and do it resposibly dose it matter. (i think iv gone completly off there even confused my self abit)
 

JoshG

Nomad
Sep 23, 2005
270
1
36
Stockton-on-tees, England.
VIRULENT SALAMANDER said:
so all those people are forestry workers?
If such a registry were to be created, then perhaps it should it would be a good idea to state which kind/s of camping are premitted...tents /hammocks /tarps/ bushcrafters caravan?bivi bag etc. etc.
39.gif
people.... .
Yep a great idea.
An outdoor permit would be a good idea, it could be given out as part of completing a Week long bushcraft course? As part of the package? And us bushcrafters who haven't managed to get on such a course yet, could send away for one and pay s small price. You could sign a contract stating that you will take the utmost care of your environment and will leave no trace etc... And also the register could contain sites that have specific requests from the FC or whoever like leaving certain trees alone and so forth. If you breach the contract you sign, your permit can be revoked. I think this is a great idea. What do you guys think?
 
JoshG said:
Yep a great idea.
An outdoor permit would be a good idea, it could be given out as part of completing a Week long bushcraft course? As part of the package? And us bushcrafters who haven't managed to get on such a course yet, could send away for one and pay s small price. You could sign a contract stating that you will take the utmost care of your environment and will leave no trace etc... And also the register could contain sites that have specific requests from the FC or whoever like leaving certain trees alone and so forth. If you breach the contract you sign, your permit can be revoked. I think this is a great idea. What do you guys think?
Just how much do you think a week long course would cost? I can't afford a weekend course at the moment :rolleyes: I'm not so sure a permit or certificate is the way to go, we just need to be responsible and law abiding. I do however think that a list of bushcrafty people friendly places is an excellant idea though.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,990
4,639
S. Lanarkshire
Is there no English or Welsh equivalent of the Community Woodlands Association?
http://www.community-woods.org.uk/

Leisure, recreation & conservation are firmly entrenched as part of their culture up here. Perhaps, since bushcrafting is quite woodland orientated, some like minded association would be amenable to access for those who have perhaps contributed effort/labour or funding to help them achieve their aims.

Cheers,
Toddy
 

Spacemonkey

Native
May 8, 2005
1,354
9
52
Llamaville.
www.jasperfforde.com
Maybe the FC can relax their sphincters a bit and maybe designate 'some' certain areas of woodland as wild camp sites? They could even charge for local permits for these woods so that anyone can 'register' and use them as regular campsites. They could even provide rubbish facilities, and maybe even fire pits placed around the woods, as i have seen in scout camps in Switzerland, and maybe a water point. Apart from that, leave it au natrel. If a permit of sort needs acquiring (and checks actually made) then it should discourage the majority of the signal fire/litter brigade?

Maybe if they actually allowed some areas for wild camping, then people wouldn't be 'forced' to camp illegally?Trouble is, they won't even meet us halfway....

Not everyone wants to camp on an official campsite as they are generally only oriented towards tents with large boring grass fields with lots of people. Some like a solitary camp in the woods, but how?
 

JoshG

Nomad
Sep 23, 2005
270
1
36
Stockton-on-tees, England.
Spacemonkey said:
Maybe the FC can relax their sphincters a bit and maybe designate 'some' certain areas of woodland as wild camp sites? They could even charge for local permits for these woods so that anyone can 'register' and use them as regular campsites. They could even provide rubbish facilities, and maybe even fire pits placed around the woods, as i have seen in scout camps in Switzerland, and maybe a water point. Apart from that, leave it au natrel. If a permit of sort needs acquiring (and checks actually made) then it should discourage the majority of the signal fire/litter brigade?

Maybe if they actually allowed some areas for wild camping, then people wouldn't be 'forced' to camp illegally?Trouble is, they won't even meet us halfway....

Not everyone wants to camp on an official campsite as they are generally only oriented towards tents with large boring grass fields with lots of people. Some like a solitary camp in the woods, but how?

That is a great idea. I really need to camp in the woods somewhere by myself but as it is illegal what am I supposed to do? :(
 

Ed

Admin
Admin
Aug 27, 2003
5,973
37
51
South Wales Valleys
That is a great idea. I really need to camp in the woods somewhere by myself but as it is illegal what am I supposed to do?
Its only illegal if you do not have permission..... so just ask.... you may be pleasantly surprised.

;)
Ed
 

Wayne

Mod
Mod
Dec 7, 2003
3,753
645
51
West Sussex
www.forestknights.co.uk
Ed said:
Its only illegal if you do not have permission..... so just ask.... you may be pleasantly surprised.

;)
Ed

I'm with Ed here. It might take some doing but try approaching your local landowners and you may find a positive response. The landowners around here have had trouble with poachers so having me spending time in the woods acts as another pair of eyes. We need to promote our activities in as positive light as possible.

Most farmers would be happy to charge a few pennies to the right person to camp in a pach of woodland.

The Backpackers club publish a farm pitch directory for their members. These sites are not generally publicished to the masses and have minimal falcities.

I think with the growing traffic on here BCUK might be in a postion to negoiate with land owners to create a similiar scheme. This would require a lot of work though on behalf of the admin staff.
There is nothing stopping the regional groups that have formed to begin approaching landowners with the view to renting land.
 

MagiKelly

Making memories since '67
I am surprised as many people seem so keen on permits. What you really want to do is lobby your MP asking for the same access rights as we have in Scotland. Then you can wild camp pretty much anywhere except in peoples gardens and a few other sensable exclusions.


Given that there have been no problems with the system in Scotland I cannot see the government objecting on any other basis than lack of time. Even the Foresty commission are happy with the rules. The Scottish meet up was held on a Forestry Commission site, fires and all.
 

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