(Yet another) Ventile question...

[Tiley]

Right. I use Ventile when I'm out and about because I like the feel of it and its quietness. I understand how it works, too, with the fibres expanding to slow the ingress of moisture. However, on those occasions when I'm out and about, playing or working, when I get caught in a prolonged shower, I find that the swollen fibres and the general dampness of the fabric reduce its 'breathability' to a significant degree so that it ends up dispersing moisture about as effectively as the old P.U. or neoprene waterproofs, making me as wet inside the garment as I would have been without it on. This is particularly true when active.

So, the thought struck me: what would happen if I washed my Ventile in something like the Nikwax Cottonproof or the Grangers equivalent? In theory, the proofing agent would prevent or at least limit the swelling of the fibres, maintaining a degree of 'breathability'; it would repel the moisture as well, preventing some of the water ingress and reducing the 'swollen-fibre-stiffness' as well. Theoretically, it would reduce the drying time of the wet garment, because it wouldn't have absorbed as much moisture, while maintaining its inherent windproofness. In light of this, what's not to like?

The question for any/all of you who have experience of this is: should I do it? Does it work? If you think I shouldn't try it, why? If you think I should try it, which cotton proofing product would you recommend I use?

I apologise if this is all old, repetitive hat but, with autumn and, joy of all joys, winter on the horizon, I'm trying to think ahead and get myself sort of ready! Many thanks, in advance, for any thoughts or suggestions borne of experience that you might produce for the discussion...

Richard

P.S. Before anyone says, "wear a waterproof and your problems will be solved", I do when I know that the weather is going to be vile; this is for those occasions - not too many of them - when I get caught out!

 

[Klenchblaize]

"So, the thought struck me: what would happen if I washed my Ventile in something like Nikwax?"

Only way to know for sure is give it a go and report back please but something tells me you will be disappointed.

Cheers

K

 

[Tonyuk]

Right. I use Ventile when I'm out and about because I like the feel of it and its quietness. I understand how it works, too, with the fibres expanding to slow the ingress of moisture. However, on those occasions when I'm out and about, playing or working, when I get caught in a prolonged shower, I find that the swollen fibres and the general dampness of the fabric reduce its 'breathability' to a significant degree so that it ends up dispersing moisture about as effectively as the old P.U. or neoprene waterproofs, making me as wet inside the garment as I would have been without it on. This is particularly true when active.

So, the thought struck me: what would happen if I washed my Ventile in something like the Nikwax Cottonproof or the Grangers equivalent? In theory, the proofing agent would prevent or at least limit the swelling of the fibres, maintaining a degree of 'breathability'; it would repel the moisture as well, preventing some of the water ingress and reducing the 'swollen-fibre-stiffness' as well. Theoretically, it would reduce the drying time of the wet garment, because it wouldn't have absorbed as much moisture, while maintaining its inherent windproofness. In light of this, what's not to like?

The question for any/all of you who have experience of this is: should I do it? Does it work? If you think I shouldn't try it, why? If you think I should try it, which cotton proofing product would you recommend I use?

I apologise if this is all old, repetitive hat but, with autumn and, joy of all joys, winter on the horizon, I'm trying to think ahead and get myself sort of ready! Many thanks, in advance, for any thoughts or suggestions borne of experience that you might produce for the discussion...

Richard

P.S. Before anyone says, "wear a waterproof and your problems will be solved", I do when I know that the weather is going to be vile; this is for those occasions - not too many of them - when I get caught out!

It would repel the moisture for a time until the coating started to degrade, then it would still soak through, probably worse since the fabric wouldn't be able to absorb as much water as before.

Paramo gear is excellent if your looking for breathable waterproofs,

Tonyuk

 

[copper_head]

Yep always used a DWR treatment on my ventile, usually nikwax wash in stuff but ventile recommend Grangers 30 degree performance proofer.

http://www.ventile.co.uk/specification.php

 

[John Fenna]

It comes with a DWR and they recommend (I think) the Grangers product - I use either Nikwax or Grangers or Storm.
The wax repels the initial drops of rain but once overwhelmed the wax does not seem to inhibit the natural performance of the Ventile.
Check their website - just google Ventile

 

[homesicksteve]

As above..

Also I washed a Hillrek smock in Nik-wax. It worked as suggested, but I felt it slightly less breathable afterwards..

Of course everyone knows waterproof & breathable is a marketing myth....okenest:

 

[John Fenna]

As above..

Also I washed a Hillrek smock in Nik-wax. It worked as suggested, but I felt it slightly less breathable afterwards..

Of course everyone knows waterproof & breathable is a marketing myth....okenest:

Aye - when ANYTHING has a layer of H2O over it's entire surface (wetted out) water vapour cannot pass through it... and that includes Ventile, Gore of anysort and all the other crisp packet waterproofs.
Fabrics can only breathe if the surface is dry.... hence DWR finishes...
Historical note - the original DWR was an accident - silicon spray was used to stop fabric catching on itself when it was layed out on cutting tables in layers for cutting multiple garments. It was found to help water "bead" on the fabric surface so was marketed as an "Extra Feature" ... with extra cost to the consumer ...... or so I have been told by a fellow in the trade....

 

[Macaroon]

The trick of this is not to use anything that permeates the fibres of the Ventile - it needs to be a treatment that'll allow the water to swell the cotton fibres. It's taken me a long time to get my SASS smock back to working condition, I dyed it to tone down the camo (successfuly) and then treated it by soaking it in Granger's Fabsil; big mistake! As soon as the beading stage gets overwhelmed you'd be as well off wearing a mossie net

The good news is that after much wear and much washing it seems to be coming back to what it should be.

 

[Tiley]

Well, I've ordered a bottle of the recommended Grangers 30 degree Performance Proofer and I'll let you know how I get on.

I have tried Paramo stuff but find it far, far too hot - even in winter - down here in sweaty Gloucestershire. I suppose there is no complete solution to the waterproof-but-'breathable' clothing conundrum; everything is a compromise and, individually, we have to decide what we're prepared to tolerate in order to keep dry-ish!

Thank you for the advice and suggestions.

Richard

 

[Highbinder]

I suppose there is no complete solution to the waterproof-

I find an umbrella works quite well.

In all seriousness, I have now exchanged my walking stick for a golf umbrella. Yes it weighs a bit more, and yes it's unusable in high winds and yes I get some looks occasionally, but it allows me to shed a lot of water away from me when I'm out: I usually wear a pertex wind shirt or MOD smock, and value their breathability foremost (as I'm a sweaty bugger). Waterproofs just don't work for me (plus the price of 'high tech' laminates is prohibitive) so I've found a breathable outer plus a poncho and/or umbrella the best solution.

I don't do any alpine walking, and if I did I expect I'd take off the side of the mountain like Mary Poppins at the first big gust, what with the poncho and umbrella XD

 

[Macaroon]

Very underrated bit of kit, the brolly; when you come to think about it, it's just a mini-tarp on a foldable frame, held up by a stick. I usually have one of those small jobbies in my pack in the wet weather, (which has been fairly constant here for the past few seasons) and although I don't use it very often it's worth it's weight in gold when I do. Excellent to sit out the worst of a sudden downpour and get yourself sorted for what may follow or simply have a brew and wait it out. Indispensable if you need to work with any kind of tech. stuff in the rain.

 

[Uilleachan]

Never used any treatments on either of the ventile jackets I've had. Present jacket is a double Hilltrek Rannoch which gets worn very regularly ( 2010 or 2011 vintage) and still working as well as the day I got it.

Planning another for winter mountaineering use, but reckon I'll get another season, perhaps two, out of my current goretex cagoule.

 

[Highbinder]

Very underrated bit of kit, the brolly; when you come to think about it, it's just a mini-tarp on a foldable frame, held up by a stick. I usually have one of those small jobbies in my pack in the wet weather, (which has been fairly constant here for the past few seasons) and although I don't use it very often it's worth it's weight in gold when I do. Excellent to sit out the worst of a sudden downpour and get yourself sorted for what may follow or simply have a brew and wait it out. Indispensable if you need to work with any kind of tech. stuff in the rain.

Yes and I feel they're very under represented when in a camping/bushcraft/hiking context. I find mine super useful - walking stick when it's not raining, wind shield for my stove and when I'm getting a fire going, and most importantly for me rain protection for my camera and myself! I even rigged it over one of the open 'ends' of my hammock tarp set up when the wind decided to change direction one particularly blowy night.

 

[Hammock_man]

over one of the open 'ends' of my hammock tarp set up

don't mean to hijack thread but that is one idea that appeals to me!

 

[Tiley]

I'm not sure about the umbrella. It uses one of your two hands - and I quite like to have both available when out and about - and it snags on any branches or brambles that happen too close. That said, there's a fellow who did a number of travel programmes a few years ago - Crane, I think his name was - who preferred to do his trips wearing a bright red Ventile jacket and carrying an umbrella. Maybe there are circumstances when they might just be useful...

 

[Macaroon]

I wouldn't dream of using a brolly whilst actually walking, more for shade/shelter/protection when stationary; I guess the chap in the red ventile needed his to hide the colour of the jacket, perhaps?

 

[MikeLA]

That programme still gets repeated and he uses the umbrella a fair bit. It was about old maps and walking along them. He is on the coast programme I think as well

bit off topic so sorry

 

[MikeLA]

Error in my post