Woodland management?

[Wayne]

Hi Jack et al.

I need some info for a course on woodland management. Coppicing and impact studies etc from a bushcraft perspective. Have you got and books or studies that would help a baffled student?

 

[Gary]

Not related but a report by the woodland trust is strongly urging against woodland management, seems a tidy forest is a sterile forest - fortunately Epping has had a zero management practice for several years

 

[tenbears10]

Woodlands: a practical handbook By BCTV.

available from Amazon.co.uk but Jack may have copies in his shop if you ask.

Fantastic book covers far more than you can learn from a book really but it is a great manual and probably a good guide to take on courses if you go on any.

Bill

 

[Moonraker]

tenbears you read my mind

Coppicing Information

But I can see your amazon link, and raise you the same BTCV ( British Trust for Conservation Volunteers) Handbook FREE! and online

I recently discovered that ALL their handbooks including the 'Woodland' one are now available online and great resources they are too. I recommend them Wayne as good basic guides.

Check them out here:

BTCV - Practical Conservation Online

the one tenbears referred to is here:

BTCV - Woodlands Handbook

they also do goods ones on:

BTCV - Hedging Handbook

and

BTCV - Toolcare Handbook

These are very good guides which I have referred to over many years for my work.

I should also point out that you can buy them direct form that site and support their efforts here:

BTCV Shop

Specifically on coppicing there is a nicely presented web site with case studies for both Ancient Woodland and also Modern Woodland giving good detail here:

http://www.coppicing.com

There is a decent amount of more commerical facts and figures on this site aimed at hazel coppice for wooland owners:

http://www.coppice.org.uk/owners.htm

There is a bit more historical info from the National Trust 'Hatfield Forest'

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/places/hatfieldforest/management_coppice.html

Finally one place I always used to go to for more scientific information was the Forestry Commission 'Forest Research' based at Alice Holt Lodge near Farnham. There are some very knowledgeable people there and I always found them very helpful with queries from students as I found out when I was training as a landscape architect and after for projects. They are more commercial now but still I would certainly consider contacting them.

Forest Research
Alice Holt Lodge
Farnham
Surrey GU10 4LH
Tel: 01420 22255
Fax: 01420 23653
research.info @ forestry.gsi.gov.uk

http://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/

I am not sure if these exactly answer your query about 'impact' and also bushcrafting as I don't really see the correlation between the two as the bushcrafter is only likely to use very small amounts of material and most often dead wood rather than living as in coppicing. But they do give a good background to the subject. I am sure Jack has oodles of info being at the sharp end

Happy researching Wayne

Deadwood Issue

Gary; you are right to raise the issue in the news reporting the importance of retaining dead/ dying wood in woodlands etc as important habitats. The BBC have an article here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3946273.stm

Generally ecologists and other conservationists have done a pretty good job on raising this issue. Certainly in our work we always included specifications for retaining deadwood or stacking felled trees to be left for nature. A lot of arborists/ tree surgeons now do this. Also it does not mention it but there is a LOT more chipping of cut material which is added back and gives a great medium for all sorts of stuff to grow and returns to the soil rather than up in smoke

Certainly we always fought to retain any mature trees and especially those with real 'character' such as gnarled old oaks etc. But one mans characterful tree is another ( landowners) insurance headache :?: I know of local authorities who have wholesale cut down streets of trees because branches may fall and leaves may make people trip over and they get sued; it happens so often these days in out litigious society unfortunately Even in parks and woods it is another reason to restrict access and cause yet more of this precious wood to be 'tidied'.

Perhaps whilst it is with the best intentions that most bushcraft advice is only to use dead wood, we should consider this report and perhaps the use of live wood from old coppice ( such as the growing out hazel coppice) in fact may act more in harmony with natures way? of course dead wood is taken from stand trees or shrubs as it tends to be better for fires than wood on the ground. Understanding which trees and shrubs can be cut/ coppiced in this way is important to avoid damage to those that do not naturally regenerate from the base.

 

[Gary]

Interesting point the MR and one I will bear in mind - I have certainly used green wood from sweet chestnut coppices in the past for shelter building and I am glad to read my own thoughts were deemed to be correct.

Many thanks.

 

[tenbears10]

Moonraker

Mine wasn't a link to amazon really a; you can get it there if you search. I was too lazy to go and search amazon while writing the post. Unlike you. Those are great links I didn't know they did so many others in the series.

Bill

 

[Realgar]

We practise careful management, ringing large sycamores and dropping smaller ones but never clearing so much that the bracken gets a hold. Unlike the places mentioned in the report on the news the other day, all our wood is stacked either as log piles or brush hedges and allowed to rot down in situ ( aside from the bits I nick ). Anything standing dead and close to the path has to be dropped before it drops on someone.
The ringed sycamores are giving our woodpeckers and bats plenty of places to hide.

We get complaints from people about the 'untidy' nature of the woods and people leaving unsightly piles of wood everywhere. I suppose I'd better start polishing the trees and persuading the stoats to use litter trays....

 

[Moonraker]

Realgar, that's a good idea 'ringing' the Sycamore given that it is considered a 'weed' tree (well, provides less available habitat than most trees and is very invasive) thus providing standing wood for woodpeckers and birds as you say.

Perhaps I should point out the 'ringing' does not involve BT but the practice of 'ring barking' or cutting through the bark layer of the tree right around a tree, usually close to the ground, thus cutting off the flow of sap ( food, water minerals etc) to the tree from the roots which kills it. This technique can also be used to control tree growth i.e. not total ring but say partial to inhibit growth on one side of a tree. It is a skilled operation to avoid real damage.

It is different from tapping the sap as for maple sap to make syrup or birch sap where a hole is drilled or the bark cut in patches as for pine trees for the resin. As long as this is not overdone the tree generally heals itself and suffers no lasting damage.

 

[Jack]

Hi Wayne.

No problems mate you have a whole host of information and contacts at your fingers tips.

The woodland world is like most industries/hobbies………you don’t know that they exist until you are in them, then everyone you meet is a hurdle marker, charcoal burner etc etc!

Here is a link for your nearest coppice group http://www.woodnet.org.uk/sscg/ nice bunch of people and a good first contact.

Or try here for first-rate, diverse range of course’s

http://www.greenwoodtrust.org.uk/home.htm again a great bunch of people and the course’s are run by top instructors.

The coppice.org site is now pretty redundant as the Wessex Coppice has now done it’s job of getting the industry back on it’s feet and by forming all of the regional groups! This link has pretty much taken its place http://www.coppice-products.co.uk/


With regards to the deadwood debate, the news that has just been release has got me scratching my head as this has been common knowledge, not for years but for decades and I feel that WWF must be wanting some PR as they have drag this one out of the archives. The fact is…….that if you remove your deadwood you could be potentially removeing 20% of your wildlife. Have had many debates with certain wildlife trusts on the building of ‘habitat piles’ and ‘ beetle banks’………the point being, if you were running your woodland right you wouldn’t need to do this as a good woodman is always creating deadwood, it’s part of the job, period.

What has been happening over the years with trusts is the that their membership has exploded and they don’t quite know what to do with all of this ‘volunteer labour’ so a good way of using this is to clean up our woodlands and build bloomin habitat piles. They also have certain campaigns once or twice a year ( helps keep their profile up………and membership increases) one year they may ‘detect’ a threat to our blue bells so they beat the drum and go on a ‘save the Blubell ‘ mission, their survey has shown that there is to much deadwood left on the woodland floor which is stopping the light reach the ground and inhibiting the growth of our Bluebell………….so then they have a ‘save our Bluebells by tiding up the wood’ campaign……and then set too having fires in the woodlands burning all of the deadwood…………next years campaign will be ….’save our deadwood’ and on its goes again.

All you have to do to look after our woodlands is to do exactly what man has done for thousands of years and that is just to work them, like they have done……………simple really……..someone just needs to tell other trusts that!

The UK has the largest number of veteran trees in the whole of Europe so we aren’t doing to bad by them and we have now got a register of all ancient trees. On the Sycamore front, I will also do what I can to control their presence in a coppice as they will take over your hazel coppice if you aren’t careful as they are nearly as good as Ash when on chalk soil and I will ring bark 1-2 trees/acre including Oak to get the standing dead wood back into the cycle. The Sycamore has got the reputation of being a weed but it is a wonderful tree in its own right.

It has been widely accepted for sometime that the Sycamore isn’t a native but this is now being questioned and more importantly, the Sycamore is a wonderful tree for wildlife……..in fact ( believe it or not) the tree holds more wildlife then any other tree and is only beaten by the Oak for its habitat value.

 

[Moonraker]

On the Sycamore front, I will also do what I can to control their presence in a coppice as they will take over your hazel coppice if you aren’t careful as they are nearly as good as Ash when on chalk soil and I will ring bark 1-2 trees/acre including Oak to get the standing dead wood back into the cycle. The Sycamore has got the reputation of being a weed but it is a wonderful tree in its own right.

It has been widely accepted for sometime that the Sycamore isn’t a native but this is now being questioned and more importantly, the Sycamore is a wonderful tree for wildlife……..in fact ( believe it or not) the tree holds more wildlife then any other tree and is only beaten by the Oak for its habitat value.

The Sycamore is a good example of 'right plant, right place'. It has good value for timber (although not used as such much in the UK) and it's tenacious habit makes it a godsend in urban areas where everything else struggles and is known to provide a lot of food from the aphids that live in them ( who also promote the black sooty fungus and sticky stuff that falls on your car .) which feed many birds for example.

However it is not a native and has only spread from it's original planting as specimen trees or avenues in C17-18th landscaped parks over the last 200 odd years. Maybe introduced earlier but all I have seen is pretty sketchy. From what I have read it does not appear in early pollen records here. So I can't imagine it harbours such a diverse insect population as the native oak as you suggest? have you got any links for this as I would be interested in reading more? And the fact it self-seeds very well and is a successful invader means it can be a problem in established ancient woodlands for example, where it can shade out other trees and understorey.

Certainly they can look majestic as old specimens especially in old parklands and I love the scaly bark as they grow older and colour of the early flowers. And it is a good wood for turning and carving etc but my heart would still be for those venerable natives that have been here for so long

There is a nice piece on the Sycamore in Britain by Pierre Binggeli here with a links to more detailed info:

Sycamore in Britain- CONTROLLING THE INVADER

 

[Jack]

Morning Mooonraker.

With regards to the Sycamore being native or not......the jury is still out on that one. But with regards to is being the second in line for habitat value then I would point you in the direction of Ted Green MBE who is the countrys foremost specialist on ancient trees, wonderful man to spend time with.

 

[NickC]

All you have to do to look after our woodlands is to do exactly what man has done for thousands of years and that is just to work them, like they have done……………simple really……..someone just needs to tell other trusts that!

Couldnt agree more Jack.

How often do you visit a wood and its been overworked or neglected? just because the owners want to make the max profits or just want to minimise costs. About time people started to look after our resources.

Also I am not sure if the Sycamore 'Acer pseudoplatanus' deserve to be treated as a 'weed' tree just because its not a native. Where would we draw the line considering most of our trees are not native i.e. sweet chestnut 'Castanea sativa'. What about tree not found in there natural location i.e. Sessile Oak 'Quercus petraea' was the original woodland oak not the English Oak 'Quercus robur'. Then we could start on the non-native mammals etc etc.

What I am trying to say is that woodlands need to be managed by people that know the woods. The same rules can't be applied to every wood just because one plant/tree/animal is favoured by one particular group just to get 30 seconds on the 10 o'clock news.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Kim]

I heard an interesting thing on the news the other day about many forests being overworked and that proprietors of land should just basically leave wooded areas under their care to return to their natural state.

 

[Tantalus]

yup Kim it was on the bbc website too

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3946273.stm

i met a party of visitng forresters from new zealand once upon a time

they were amazed at the lack of brashing (cutting lower branches off) being done in scotland

the scots forresters said it just left a tangle on the ground and made a mess for years

the new zealanders were amazed it took so long to decompose in scotland saying in NZ it would be gone in a year to 18 months

my point ? well i guess it is different all over the world, and blanket statements like this one from the bbc and wwf may not be 100% true but merely theories

Tant

 

[Moonraker]

Also I am not sure if the Sycamore 'Acer pseudoplatanus' deserve to be treated as a 'weed' tree just because its not a native.

It is not just because it is non-native that the Sycamore is considered undesirable in 'some' situations. It is because it is a very successful coloniser in fact too successful in places where it threatens existing, fragile ecosystems, such as in long established ancient woodland.

To clarify on earlier discussion, I understand now that it is not so much the diversity and number of different insects it provides habitat to, but more the 'volume' of insects (mostly aphids) which provide valuable source of food to birds like tits, chaffinches and goldcrests in years when food is hard to come by. And why it is important in urban environments.

There is a fine balance between all the interests of woodland and forest. Without intervention and commercial activity there would be less habitat diversity. Just leaving woodlands could ultimately lead to a woodland climax vegetation which in Britain has a relatively limited variety of species. Just as over-tidying can lead to the same result. It's like Jack said:

All you have to do to look after our woodlands is to do exactly what man has done for thousands of years and that is just to work them, like they have done…

What would be a lot more beneficial is to simply fence off a few acres of pasture rendered virtually sterile by way of chemical fertilisers, weedkillers and sowing with ryegrass, and simply letting that revert back to woodland naturally then getting into it with a billhook