Winter wildcamping - what I need to know?

[Paul_B]

As its the last day of summer I have been thinking of seasons to come.

WINTER!!

Never wild camped outside of early spring / mid autumn. Want to give it a go. I have all the day walking clobber and then some. I also have the 3 season camping clobber, mostly lightweight tarp or single skin force10 vitesse tent. I have sleeping bag to 0C and quilt to -7C which is better rated to 0C. These can be combined. I have TAR prolite 3 and the newer 3/4 length prolite also 3 season b ut combined should be good enough in winter (or a 3/4 downmat i might get).

Anyway I was wondering how to go about winter camping in the likes of Lakeland fells. How do you cope with the cold when static? How do you cope with the weather? Is wind or snow more of an issue in winter with a tarp and bivvy set-up. Is a tarp and bivvy set-up even practical? Is a meths stove (whitebox stove( any good in winter? Should I get a caldera cone kit or a caldera keg instead? Would a can top gas stove do (old style micron) or should I bite the bullet and get an primus express spider or edelrid opilio? Would a rodir alcohol stove do?

Anyone got any advice for a newbie to winter camping out??

 

[spandit]

Try camping in your garden first as if you get bloody cold you haven't got far to go...

Snow is a great insulator, you can make good shelters but do your research first as you wouldn't want your snow grave to turn into your actual grave...

 

[The Big Lebowski]

Only been through the one winter, wild camping... But it all worked out well

Take more thermals than you think you will need. Plenty of stuff for brews. Consider a small woodburner for warmth and light... Gloves, a hooded jacket, decent boots, plenty of stodgy food.
A hot meal always before bed will warm you up, and your bag no end.

I use a down 3 season, but with a silk liner and bivi on the outside (all be it in a hammock with UQ) and its toasy warm.

You will learn as you go along what your comfort level is. and can add/remove once you find it!
Winter wild camping is great fun! We go for the oak fire, good food and plenty of hip-flasks.

No point in depriving one's self

al.

 

[Redwall]

Apologies if this is condescending, not sure on your knowledge level.

In a sleeping bag, less clothes= more warmth. This is the single biggest thing I have seen make people's night miserable, they get into bed wearing all their warm gear and gibber the night away. Two reasons for this: Firstly, if you take your clothes off it warms the air inside the bag. With the bag sealed up tight at the top this lets the sleeping bag work properly, by trapping this layer of warm air and making you feel snug as a bug. Secondly when you get up in the morning you can throw on your clothes as extra as you get out. (Keep your underlayers inside the bag with you, snuggly warm.

My first night in December on Salisbury plain I was so gibbers I was practically in tears. After an hour or stag someone gave me this advice and I bit the bullet and went down to boxers only in the bag. Slept like a baby for the rest of the night.

On the stoves front I've had a Trangia working down to below 0 temps, no reason why your meths stove shouldn't.

Hope at least some of that helps.

 

[rik_uk3]

Tent in winter IMO. A Trangia works fine (proper one), if using gas get the propane/butane/isobutane mix which works better in the cold. Bivvy bag boosts sleeping bag performance.

 

[mountainm]

Apologies if this is condescending, not sure on your knowledge level.

In a sleeping bag, less clothes= more warmth. This is the single biggest thing I have seen make people's night miserable, they get into bed wearing all their warm gear and gibber the night away. Two reasons for this: Firstly, if you take your clothes off it warms the air inside the bag. With the bag sealed up tight at the top this lets the sleeping bag work properly, by trapping this layer of warm air and making you feel snug as a bug. Secondly when you get up in the morning you can throw on your clothes as extra as you get out. (Keep your underlayers inside the bag with you, snuggly warm.

My first night in December on Salisbury plain I was so gibbers I was practically in tears. After an hour or stag someone gave me this advice and I bit the bullet and went down to boxers only in the bag. Slept like a baby for the rest of the night.

On the stoves front I've had a Trangia working down to below 0 temps, no reason why your meths stove shouldn't.

Hope at least some of that helps.

I have to take issue with this - how can more insulation make you colder? - If the heat isn't getting out through your clothes to the bag then it is trapped in against your skin. Any heat that does escape then gets trapped in the bag. We are constantly advised on the benefits of layering up to keep warm and I really find it hard to believe we're breaking the laws of physics when encased in a sleeping bag.

 

[Paul_B]

My issue is cold hands. I have camped close to zero early March last year and with wind chill I struggled to cope with the cold hands. My camping style is pitch up, make a brew while finishing off the setting up of the camp then boil water for dehydrated food then straight into my sleeping nag and bivvy for warmth. It is the bit from when I have stopped to the getting into the sleeping bag that I struggle to keep the hands warm in. I am generally warm and possibly sweaty when I stop so that cools me down. To combat that I put on layers but you need dexterity for setting camp up. This means only thin liner gloves at best. Wind goes through them and next to useless without proper warm gloves or mitts which mean no dexterity. I just wondered how you lot would keep cold in open fellside pitches. Mostly wind protected but not like in woods. I go to places where there is generally only wood lower down so I don't take a wood burner. I could take my honey and carry up wood but I suspect I'd not take enough or not want to.

I know all the techniques for warmth when sleeping such as my preference is for plain peanuts. They are high in fat and protein which are slow burning in your system so perfect for eating in my bag so I get the thermogenesis form it;s digestion half an hour after eating. I also have hot chocolate just before turning in and sip it from my bag. I wear hats and buffs if needed. All this is when the temp is only as low as 4 or 5C and I'm not too good until in my pit. Think how bad I'll be in proper winter. It is down a bit to reynauds too which is why I use mitts a lot in winter walking. Anyway I struggle with the hands, they get cold even when I'm warm enough to get by which means stiff, numb and loss of dexterity (using a stove is harder).

 

[mountainm]

My issue is cold hands. I have camped close to zero early March last year and with wind chill I struggled to cope with the cold hands. My camping style is pitch up, make a brew while finishing off the setting up of the camp then boil water for dehydrated food then straight into my sleeping nag and bivvy for warmth. It is the bit from when I have stopped to the getting into the sleeping bag that I struggle to keep the hands warm in. I am generally warm and possibly sweaty when I stop so that cools me down. To combat that I put on layers but you need dexterity for setting camp up. This means only thin liner gloves at best. Wind goes through them and next to useless without proper warm gloves or mitts which mean no dexterity. I just wondered how you lot would keep cold in open fellside pitches. Mostly wind protected but not like in woods. I go to places where there is generally only wood lower down so I don't take a wood burner. I could take my honey and carry up wood but I suspect I'd not take enough or not want to.

I know all the techniques for warmth when sleeping such as my preference is for plain peanuts. They are high in fat and protein which are slow burning in your system so perfect for eating in my bag so I get the thermogenesis form it;s digestion half an hour after eating. I also have hot chocolate just before turning in and sip it from my bag. I wear hats and buffs if needed. All this is when the temp is only as low as 4 or 5C and I'm not too good until in my pit. Think how bad I'll be in proper winter. It is down a bit to reynauds too which is why I use mitts a lot in winter walking. Anyway I struggle with the hands, they get cold even when I'm warm enough to get by which means stiff, numb and loss of dexterity (using a stove is harder).

A good tip is to wear a face mask, keeping the air in your lungs warm keeps your core body temperature warm which prevents your temparature regulatory system from robbing your extremities of body heat. This keeps your fingers and toes warm for longer.

 

[spandit]

I use kayaking gloves - they're windproof and grippy

 

[redandshane]

Tent or hammock would be my preference but my long standing aversion to just a bivvy bag would dictate that
Good warm hat or balaclava
Re clothing it depends what clothing you are using and how warm you sleep nice down gilet and thermal shirt and long johns gonna beat wearing boxers I can tell you.I know its the received wisdom but any time I have tried it I have been scrabbling for clothes to put on within half an hour.
As Rick says Bivvy bag and a liner as well if its really cold. I have done -6 in a hammock and been toasty
I do more camping in winter than summer-less people around
Experiment locally rather than be miles away to find you haven't got the right gear for you

 

[Paul_B]

Redwall is partly correct in that taking clothes off can actually make you warmer but his reason is not right. It is all down to the effectiveness of cloths versus sleeping bag for insulation in a way but the main factor is each material has to loft up enough to insulate at its maximum efficiency. Clothing does this well as fleece or pile or base layers don't compress as easily as say down or even modern synthetics. However they are less insulative. Down can compress very easily but works most efficiently when lofted as fully as it can. If you put a heavy coat over it you lose compression also a tight bivvy bag can also compress it. As can you turning on your side so your shoulder or hip pushes up against the inside of the bivvy bag compressing the down at that spot.

Now if you add layers of clothing which makes you bigger and doesn't compress the down then compresses enough to affect performance. It doesn't take that much for the performance of down to be noticed. Also if you are wearing a down top that also compresses. This means both the bag and the down top has lost performance and this can be significant. Enough to knock off some season ratings of your bag. Taking the clothes off reduces the bulk inside the bag and it can loft better. This can be enough to get you through the night. It is a myth that insulation worn prevents insulation in your bag working unless there is this compression issue going on. The more insulation you have on you or around you can only help IF it is allowed to achieve sufficient loft to work efficiently. If not the loss of efficiency may or may not result in a cold night.

Afterall you can get overbags to go to the outside of your standard sleeping bag. This is extra large. Like this you can get an XL bag with a wider girth to fit more clothes on inside it. My bags are all in XL due to length but I am quite slim so don't really need all the space. In fact this excess space inside is detrimental to my warmth in that bag. For me it is better to fill it with clothes. The only issue is my bivvy is not as big really.

 

[Redwall]

Whilst I respect your opinions, I'm only presenting my experiences. For whatever reason I have found that even so much as a thermal underlayer has made it more difficult for me to sleep in the cold. I find the same effect when I compare wearing a t-shirt, Norwegian shirt and Snuggie to that of just a t-shirt and a Snuggie. Definitely warmer without the extra layer.

 

[toilet digger]

double up on roll mats, tight or close fitting boots usually give you cold feet and in the case of the kids, we put both their doss bags into a double bag. so camping with two girls under 10 in january is happy times.
and of course the obligatory ALE!

 

[bilmo-p5]

A Sigg bottle full of hot water inside a sock is a handy thing.

 

[Harvestman]

Wind is your enemy - it can strip heat away. Make sure you get proper shelter, and windproof clothing is really helpful while you are not in your sleeping bag. The other tip is simply to go to bed earlier. Eat a hot meal, get into your sleeping bag, and sleep. Get into bed while your body is warm, instead of eating and then losing the heat for an hour or so first.

 

[vizsla]

imho a 3 season bag is good enough the problems with cold usualy arise when the wind picks up so a bivi bag even if your inside a tent makes a huge diference and to second whats been said a balaclava, whenever iv woke in the night its only ever been my face that is cold. and if you do find your cold place any spare clothing over your sleeping bag
rather than wearing them as sleeping bags rely on your body temperature to heat the bag.
winter camping is great though and makes you realise wots important like a good fire

 

[bilmo-p5]

Given what you've already written, a Trangia 27 would suit you well. Simple to operate with no fiddly bits or moving bits, good stability if you're fumbling a bit and dead easy to use from the confines of your sleeping bag.

 

[HillBill]

Redwall is quite correct. The insulating properties of sleeping bags work best when used with minimal clothing on. If you sleep in your clothes then it is your clothes that you rely on to keep you warm, but they do not have the insulating properties of a bag. The result is that the air in your bag is colder than your body temp, basically your climbing into a fridge and zipping it up. If you remove the layers of clothing your body warms the bag and it stays warm. You then have a bag of nice warm air to sleep in. So its either in a bag of warm air semi naked, or fully clothed in a fridge. I know from lots of experience which i will choose. I would advise you to try it before you doubt it

Another good idea i use is to take a couple of the reuseable gel handwarmers. Warm them up 15 mins before you turn in and throw em in your bag, top and bottom. Your bag is heated then before you get in.

I have to take issue with this - how can more insulation make you colder? - If the heat isn't getting out through your clothes to the bag then it is trapped in against your skin. Any heat that does escape then gets trapped in the bag. We are constantly advised on the benefits of layering up to keep warm and I really find it hard to believe we're breaking the laws of physics when encased in a sleeping bag.

 

[mountainm]

Im sorry but my sleeping equipment obeys the laws of thermodynamics. More insulation means a warmer night.

However if you are subjecting yourself to compression, or getting too hot then sweating then this will eventually make you feel cold.

 

[spandit]

A Sigg bottle full of hot water inside a sock is a handy thing.

Fill it with tea and drink it in the morning!