winter sleeping

[mal]

Hi everyone need lots of opinions on some kit, i am new to the craft so please excuse any ignorants. my question is what to get to sleep in and or on see i really liked the look of rays Eco system but after talking to staff there they would not recommend it for winter very onist i thought so as its coming up for winter i would get that at a latter date so my options are tents so any advise on any of the above gratefully received i do like the look of the tee pee tents and are woodloar sleeping bags any good would i get away with the Aussie hooche and a good winter bag any thing i use i would like to be lite also if I'm on the floor do i need a mate of some sort HHHHeeeeellllllpppp :yikes:

 

[bigjackbrass]

I slept outside in a Woodlore sleeping bag last winter and was pretty cosy. Given that I was in Lapland at the time you can take it that they are quite warm.

A bivvy bag is an essential, and you need plenty of insulation under you as well, probably far more than you would think. Spruce boughs were the order of the day in Lapland, topped with my battered old Ridge Rest mat, but for more general use I'd recommend a couple of foam sleeping mats, or a Therm-a-Rest with a foam mat on top. Fill any spaces in the bag with spare clothes.

As for tarps and tents, a tarp makes a surprising difference to the temperature, but the main enemy is wind. You need shelter, and whether that's going to be a natural windbreak or something manmade probably matters little unless the conditions are extreme. A tarp is easier to pitch when the ground is frozen solid (I had the devil of a time a few years ago pitching my Macpac Microlight tent in a Pennsylvania winter when the earth was like concrete) because you can vary the way it is pitched more easily than with a tent. Tie it to trees, wrap the guys around rocks or even attach them to a car bumper if you have to. Tents tend to be less forgiving, but offer slightly better all-round protection and are often warmer.

Woodlore were absolutely right with their advice about hammock camping. It simply isn't for cold weather, although a quick Internet search will lead you to all sorts of solutions to make hammocks a bit warmer. Thick mats, a good bag and simple shelter should see you through any British winter weather.

 

[tomtom]

I got a moskoselkatan arran 5.. its great :biggthump would certainly recomend it!

also as BJB has said a Therm-a-Rest is a must have... really good bit of kit IMHO!

 

[Gary]

If your new to 'the craft' then save your money, dont go wasting it on stuff you have no idea about and likely dont need. Keep it simple to start with. I'd say you would be better off buying a British army sleeping bag, a British army Bivi bag, a foam ground pad (although thermarest is the best here) and a hootchie or basha.

That basic kit will cost you a lot less than most, will get you out and about and covers most options.

Then when your more experienced (if you feel the need that is) you can explore other items - although personally I still use the above set up and after 20 odd years I am still happy with it.

 

[Viking]

Thermarest can be very bad if i´t get´s extremely cold because then it will fill up with cold air and will become very cold. Reindeer skin is the best to sleep on, nature´s own material is best to wear. Knowledge is the best to carry and it does not weigh anything.

 

[Gary]

Very true Viking - unfortunately we dont have that kind of cold in UK YET - although according to the news and the global warming rise I am sure it wont be long!.

Anyway I did say most options - not all!

Next time your in the army surplus shop you'd best pick us up some of those skins then ready for Norway!

 

[Viking]

Very true Viking - unfortunately we dont have that kind of cold in UK YET - although according to the news and the global warming rise I am sure it wont be long!.

Anyway I did say most options - not all!

Next time your in the army surplus shop you'd best pick us up some of those skins then ready for Norway!

Good idea mate, will do so :chill:

 

[mal]

Cheers guys it all sounds like good advice so thank you all for your time and thoughts just one thing is a hootchie the same as a basha just different langauge or what :biggthump

 

[leon-1]

Mal the hootchie is effectively the australian army basha, the basha is the British army version, to be honest there is little difference in the jungle lightweight and the Australian hootchie, look at Strikeforce for a good price on one. You will find a link to them under resources and then the links only thread :wave:

 

[mal]

Cheers mate are all of these normally purchased with the cords attached or do you by that separately

 

[Frogo]

If your new to 'the craft' then save your money, dont go wasting it on stuff you have no idea about and likely dont need. Keep it simple to start with. I'd say you would be better off buying a British army sleeping bag, a British army Bivi bag, a foam ground pad (although thermarest is the best here) and a hootchie or basha.

That basic kit will cost you a lot less than most, will get you out and about and covers most options.

I would have to agree with Gary, just start of with the basic kit, you should find this is all you need whilst starting out.
Frogo

 

[masongary44]

I have been spending the last few winters in a cheap (but bulky and heavy) 4 season bag and a 40 quid ex army G-Tex Bibi bag... I now have my terra Nova Saturn, but am sure i will still be tempted by my old set-up

 

[leon-1]

Cheers mate are all of these normally purchased with the cords attached or do you by that separately

A lot of the time (nearly always) you attach your own cordage, the advice that has been given with reference to keeping costs down is good advice, you can use a hammock all year round, but it will take a while before you learn exactly what is needed (I have been using hammocks year round for quite a long time).

What Gary said about a Basha and Bivvi bag is quite true, the military have been getting by with it for a long time now, so it is a tried and tested method.

I would get used to using that and then from the experience you gain adapt things so that you have a system that suits you rather than a system that conforms to someone elses ideals.

You can get a lot of advice from people that use the kit on here (hammocks, pods, Hennesys, therma-rest / ridge rest (they are made by the same company), kip matts and a multitude of sleeping bags), but you would be better tackling each as a seperate entity.

Basha or Hootchie doesn't matter, they both do the job in the same way, they are light and pack down small, all will probably agree that the issue Bivvi bag is value for money, but your body is different and as such a sleeping bag that some may consider a deep freeze you will be quite comfortable in and vice versa.

If you go through some of the threads on here you will find that there are questions from people whose body's work in similair ways to your own and you can make informed choices from that. You very rarely get an area on kit that everyone agrees on totally and the reason is we are all different. Have a good search through the threads on hammocks, sleeping bags and the like you will find something that will ring a note with you. All the best Leon :wave:

 

[Moonraker]

Thermarest can be very bad if i´t get´s extremely cold because then it will fill up with cold air and will become very cold. Reindeer skin is the best to sleep on, nature´s own material is best to wear. Knowledge is the best to carry and it does not weigh anything.

What does a Reindeer skin 'generally' weigh Viking? I mean as carrying as an item of kit. I remember reading they are around 4-6lb/2-4kg. If it was a piece the size of the thermarest it must be around about the same weight or lighter I would have thought. Probably not so useful in wetter British climate though but good for our drier colder winters here in the Massif Central. Might make a nice addition to a Hennessy for winter

Related to that, check this out:

Reindeer-Skin Sleeping Bag Used by Surgeon Commander C. Murray Levick on the British Antarctic Expedition, 1910-13


and then read all about it:

THE SOUTH POLE - Volume I An Account of the Norwegian Antarctic Expedition in the "Fram," 1910 -- 1912 by Roald Amundsen

I think it really puts into context what we tend to believe is 'must have kit' these days.

Gary what about lambskin or similar? about the same size as a thermarest? Can't weigh much more. And if you get bored you can always knit a jumper

Simon

 

[jamesdevine]

I think Sheepskin has been mentioned as being used insulator to your Hammock in winter.

James

 

[Tyr]

I can confirm the reindeer skin thing, in a post on BB I mentioned that a pair of reindeer skin boots were the best I have ever had for dealing with very cold dry weather. I also know that other reindeer skin jackets in the same environment whilst heavier than goose feathers is pretty much the best stuff you can get. Reindeer skins beat a Thermarest or foam mat any day for warmth and comfort in the cold. The problem comes in when they get wet, so maybe not the best thing in the UK. If you want to try one out the only place I have seen them in the UK is http://www.nordicarts.com/ I have never bought from them so I cannot say how good these guys are and they are not terribly cheap at £70. I’m too lazy to go and dig a skin out at the moment but I recon about 2-3kg is about right for weight.

Of course if you look around you could probably get an old army bivi, sleeping bag and mat for the £70.

I've slept on sheepskin too and that was very nice but it wasn't in the great outdoors, i suspect that it would not be too fun of it got wet.

 

[Moonraker]

Thanks for the info Tyr. I might have a look at sheepskin from the local flocks or cheaper sources for reindeer skins. You could get a few Thermarest size pieces from a skin by the looks of things.

I had some questions about proofing the skins etc but Tvividr answered it wonderfully in the other thread (lower link) :biggthump which I copy here for convinience for others:

Martyn is right ! The thing about reindeer fur/hair being hollow is exactly what makes it desirable ! The hollow hairs trap air, and insulates from the cold big time (the same thing with icebears) - a good skin should insulate at least as well as a thick Thermarest (I know as I use both).
The skin will shed hair as you use it. How fast this happends partly depends on the individual skin, but the main thing is at what time of the year the reindeer was killed and skinned. During winter the hairlayer is a lot thicker than during the summer. During autumn the hairlayer will get thicker, and during the spring the reindeer will shed hair preparing for the summer season.
Here in Norway a tanned reindeer hide from a late autumn bull costs about £ 44. A raw skin (no tanning - just dried) from a bull costs about £ 21. These are average prices for bull skins, female and calf skins are cheaper.
The skin most used as a sleepingmat is the dried and not tanned version. It is prepared by treating the fleshside with boiled linseedoil (several coats), which is allowed to dry. This skin will soak up a lot less water and is somewhat stronger than the tanned skin.

Sheepskins for use in hammocks was mentioned on this thread:

Hennessy Help!

General thread on skins:

skins

Bison Bushcraft do untreated reindeer skins for £49 (treated £75) which you mention is the best for a sleeping mat. At least they are listed on their current pricelist.

 

[Tvividr]

I agree with everything that Tyr said about the reindeer skin :biggthump
Here in Norway we get the dried skins for about £ 18 - 50 or some places as low as £ 5,- depending on quality and where in the country we buy them.