Willow Bark Pain Relief

[Toadflax]

I saw Ray Mears mention this on his recent TV series: chewing on a willow twig may help with pain relief. I know that willow bark is used in oriental medicine and that aspirin was modelled on the salicin that is contained in the bark, but I wondered if anyone had ever tried chewing a willow twig when they had a headache?


Geoff

 

[w00dsmoke]

I saw Ray Mears mention this on his recent TV series: chewing on a willow twig may help with pain relief. I know that willow bark is used in oriental medicine and that aspirin was modelled on the salicin that is contained in the bark, but I wondered if anyone had ever tried chewing a willow twig when they had a headache?


Geoff

As someone who is in chronic pain most of the time due to breaking my back, I regualry use it as a top up. I started using it in 86 before my accident and used it regularly when available for keeping temp down and general mild pain relief. I chew on the bark (incidently the bark was a main ingredient of knik-knick a native american smoking mixture), it is bitter as hell so you won't chew for long but it does work. As for overdosing...it's never happened to me yet but it's made me sweat once not sure from the bitterness or the ingerdients doh!

Good luck but remember be careful


Woodsmoke

 

[Toadflax]

That's very interesting - do you chew twigs or do you actually take off the bark? There are some huge willow groves in the park near where I work, and some weeping willow as well.

When I saw RM do it, he just cut off the end of a twig and chewed that.



Geoff

 

[xylaria]

As someone who is in chronic pain most of the time due to breaking my back, I regualry use it as a top up. I started using it in 86 before my accident and used it regularly when available for keeping temp down and general mild pain relief. I chew on the bark (incidently the bark was a main ingredient of knik-knick a native american smoking mixture), it is bitter as hell so you won't chew for long but it does work. As for overdosing...it's never happened to me yet but it's made me sweat once not sure from the bitterness or the ingerdients doh!

Good luck but remember be careful


Woodsmoke

I have never used for chronic pain or for internal pain. Your informed voice of experience is fantastic. I would give you rep if I could. :You_Rock_

I have used it for toothache, nettle stings and small external niggles. You just chew the bark until it tastes bitter and apply. I tend to pick small twigs because they are easier to chew. I couldn't get me gob around the trunk I just nibble off the bark and chew that up. When I do need it I tend not to ID the exact willow species, I have used weeping willow it seems to work.

Has anybody tried smoking/smoke bathing with it? I just wondering if it made it more effective and faster at relieving pain. What is Knik-knack used for, and what is in it?

 

[w00dsmoke]

Has anybody tried smoking/smoke bathing with it? I just wondering if it made it more effective and faster at relieving pain. What is Knik-knack used for, and what is in it?

Er yeagh...

1/ smoking it-well not that good, but I did try it in my youth among many other native uk plants. My smoking mixture come herbal tea mixture (As I don;t use tobacco) is Lime flowers mixed with honey and rasberry leaves. Add shaved willow bark if you wish, the lime flowers are soporofic and were used as by the Germans in WW1 to treat shell shock. I use this mixture as a herbal tea and it's wonderful.

2/ knick knick has many names but essentially refers to indian tobacco or smoking mixture. Not all native americans had access to tobacco so some used bearberry, willow bark and many other herbs.

Don't worry about identifying a particular species of Salix there are around 40,000 different species/sub species/crosses in the uk alone

Hope this helps

Woodsmoke

 

[EdS]

White willow is the one you want.

Seep it in hot water and add honey to mask the taste.

Or do it the old fashioned way and make a tinture with strong brandy.

 

[Toddy]

Willow is good but it's harsh. Goat willow is much tastier than the rest, it's kind of sweet, probably why the goats like it
I find Meadowsweet is better for long term use. It's gentler but no less effective. Gather the flower heads to be used as a tea, or a wash, for aches, and tincture the roots (soak in alcohol) for *careful* use internally, or externally it's especially good for aching joints. I dry the flowers to be used all year round and make the tincture into ointments and oils.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[BorderReiver]

Might be worth thinking about the long term use of these "aspirin substitutes";they probably have the same nasty side effects as "industrial" aspirin.

Gastric erosion and reducing platelet function are two off the top of my head.

Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's not dangerous.

 

[jojo]

Am I right in thinking that the concentration of the chemicals (for want of a better word) would be a lot less in the bark than in a highly purified tablet? I am completely ignorant in this subject but do you swallow the stuff when you chewed it??
What is a tincture? is it a different strength to something else?? I told you I was quite ignorant but fascinated. I dislike taking medicines, although I have to, but as a pain relief I am really interested :You_Rock_

 

[Toddy]

Good point Mike
I stick to the adage, "Three days, do you 'really' need it more?" for painkillers and anti inflammatories.
If it is necessary, think really hard about it and make sure it's not just becoming a habit.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Toddy]

This is the problem with natural materials Jojo; they are incredibly variable. They are all different, they will vary in season, and in the areas and conditions in which they are grown. How they are processed can totally alter the effectiveness or toxicity of the plant.
It is illegal to prescribe a herbal remedy unless one is a qualified herbalist; I'm not, but I have been making and using and refining mine since childhood.
I'm only proficient in those plants I *know*, and those are the ones native to my area or which will grow well in my very wet bit of Scotland. Most of us on the list are in the same boat, but the discussions open up ideas and possibilities for us too. I know what grows well here and I barter with others across the country for materials that they find difficult to obtain in their neighbourhood. e.g. Meadowsweet thrives here but madder is not at all happy in my heavy clay soil.

A tincture is made by soaking plant material in an alcohol. Plain vodka will work but will be 60% water so though good, it's not the best.
Denatured alcohol will work too, but the denaturing process means it's not fit to be drunk. I can obtain small quantities of undenatured alcohol specifically for the purpose of making tinctures for personal use.
Natural perfumers too can sometimes obtain this because the denaturing interferes with the scent balances they are trying to create.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[JonnyP]

What an interesting thread.... So any willow will work, but white willow is the best, but goat willow is the better tasting one. I am going to have to look into this a bit more, esp telling the difference between goat and white willow.
Woodsmoke.....Sorry to hear of your condition, wish you well.....

 

[jojo]

I understand Toddy. I find the subjet quite fascinating, like many other things and don't seem to have the time to study them all! It makes perfect sense the variation on the qualities or availability of plants in various areas. From the point of view of the novice there are so many plants it's bewildering!

Is there a good book (s) on the subject you could recommend? May be its better to concentrate on one plant at the time and really learn everything about it.

 

[w00dsmoke]

What an interesting thread.... So any willow will work, but white willow is the best, but goat willow is the better tasting one. I am going to have to look into this a bit more, esp telling the difference between goat and white willow.
Woodsmoke.....Sorry to hear of your condition, wish you well.....

Thanks Jon

I think it's important to remember that up until opium was imported into the Uk, there was a wide range of plants that were used for many different reasons, some of which was pain control. Some were for use in rituals, altering states of consciousness and others were in some ways for the relief of symptoms if not cures for ailments and they worked either chemically or sympathethicly. No one knew or cared HOW they worked, but if they DID, then everyone was happy.

After Copernicus we see things in a different light now, we know more about active ingredients and we know what really does work for everyone. This is what educators amongst us call "Really useful knowldge", knowledge that prepares us, knowledge that we can use.

Now I'm no expert or botanist, but I know a wee bit about really useful plants but to be honest, most are extremely dangerous to use as they often have different effects on different people and the results in the past were often worse than the ailments attempting to be cured.

So I'm going to offer again a word of caution when experimenting with them and a word of encouragement too. Be careful, do your research and if you can safely use the knowledge of some of these plants (obtaining some of them is nigh near impossible in many parts of the country due to their overpicking in the middle ages-e.g. wild lettuce) then good on you I went down that path a long time ago, I lived to tell the tale. You may have more to lose now than me back then.

 

[sam_acw]

Toddy, making the sort of alcohol based remedies you describe is alive and kicking here in Poland. You can buy Spyritus, which is essentially distillation strength spirit of up to 97% alcohol, for use in cures. I have a jar of it with what I think is hazelnut extract (I'm not 100% sure) mixed in. It is meant to help with all digestive problems including food poisoning!

 

[Toddy]

I have dozens of herbals and old receipt books. they all have somethings interesting but none really, really jump apart from Herbal drugs and phytopharmaceuticals
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Herbal-Phytopharmaceuticals-Norman-Grainger-Bisset/dp/3887630793
It's not cheap though but it is full of good information.

Best advice is to choose a plant in season near you. Investigate it, try it out, see how it develops over the year, see if it's in the same place next year, and when another plant catches your eye, as it inevitably will, do the same with it too.
It can be as simple as roses, edible flowers, wonderful scent, good dye if dark red, hips are an excellent food and oil and vitamin rich; or Comfrey is coming up just now, that's a good one and it'll die back and the only way you'll find it will be to remember where the roots grew.
Cleavers are up now and the dandelions too; any of them will do.
Most folks can carry three or four plants a season in their minds and while still keeping an eye on them, add on another couple as the seasons grow. By the end of a year you'll *know* at least a dozen really well, and the knowledge will grow all your life

This forum is a good place to start too, search, ask, start a new thread; if folk who know something useful are about to read it, they'll answer and the discussion benefits us all

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Toddy]

Toddy, making the sort of alcohol based remedies you describe is alive and kicking here in Poland. You can buy Spyritus, which is essentially distillation strength spirit of up to 97% alcohol, for use in cures. I have a jar of it with what I think is hazelnut extract (I'm not 100% sure) mixed in. It is meant to help with all digestive problems including food poisoning!

Lucky man our Revenue officers claim tax on alcohol and watch carefully for suspected recreational consumption of the high proof stuff

A tincture is generally strong, it needs to be diluted, but it will pull different strengths from plants than oil or water. It also preserves very ephemeral potencies, it can cool an inflammation, soothe an ache or sterilise a wound. Good stuff, but if the wrong kind is used, it can blind, it can kill.
Be aware, do the research and don't believe all you read; make sure that even where two authors agree they aren't just quoting from the same dodgy source.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Toadflax]

If you want a book to introduce you to herbal remedies, this is a good starting point. I am just starting to research the subject, so I can't claim to be an expert, but if nothing else, the book is very informative.

The New Age Herbalist, by Richard Mabey

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/068481577X/202-0469767-0992660


Geoff

 

[xylaria]

Thanks Jon


Now I'm no expert or botanist, but I know a wee bit about really useful plants but to be honest, most are extremely dangerous to use as they often have different effects on different people and the results in the past were often worse than the ailments attempting to be cured.

IMHO alot of the harm that was caused by poor use of herbal remedies was because they sent intelligent and educated women like Toddy to the witch pire.

Thankfully there is still intellgent and educated women like Toddy bring this knowledge and wisdom back.

Herbal remedies are safe when used with wisdom. Wisdom is not the same as knowledge. I thinking of the quote from jurassic park " you spent so long think of how it could to be done when you should of thought about whether it should be done" . It take true wisdom for plants to be used in balanced way

Toddy :notworthy I am sure the meadow sweet is/was used to treat stomach ulcers. Can you confirm/deny this? Pleeese . Dr duke lists five chemicals that are contained in meadow sweet that have anti-ulcer action. But I am too close to edge of my own knowlegde to comment on meadow sweet and ulcers. But there are other plants that balance their own side effects in their natural state.

 

[Toddy]

Meadowsweet is gentler on the gut than any of the other aspirin types ( the original aspirin was derived from meadowsweet) but to be honest I prefer using it as a synergy for stomach pains/ ulcers/ acid reflux burns/

The three sweet ladies are mallow, meadowsweet and melissa and together they make the best tisane I know of for these types of things.

I know that meadowsweet and liquorice root are also very effective, but to be honest liquorice is a vasodilator and it just adds another layer of issues to the mix; if someone is sensitive to it (I am, it can trigger migraine ) it's more trouble than it's worth usually......and I don't care how safe it's supposed to be, it's used as a cheap filler/ flavour boost in many packaged fruit teas, it ought to be treated with a bit more regard.

atb,
Toddy