Wild Camping Petition

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,887
2,138
Mercia
Not a good idea in my view - just look to Loch Lomond to see what happens in populated areas - and England is much more densely populated.
 

georann

Full Member
Feb 13, 2010
1,258
5
Warwickshire
www.slice-of-fire.co.uk
That's a very valid point. The petition does word it more towards schools and outdoor groups- perhaps a more open option to ask the forestry commission etc for permission for recognised groups? And then if supposedly responsible people make a mess, they can be blacklisted. Probably quite hard to administer but it would be worth it.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,887
2,138
Mercia
No problem with people asking for and getting permission for named, identified, groups or individuals.

Hoping that scum will not despoil beauty spots if given licence to be there would be, to me, naive optimism triumphing over experience.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,887
2,138
Mercia
Given they are a publicly owned body I agree - schools groups, for example, should be able to demonstrate competence and gain permission. I don't understand why we fund the forestry commission anyway - are we likely to need wooden ships or pit props?
 

Macaroon

A bemused & bewildered
Jan 5, 2013
7,241
385
74
SE Wales
Yea point taken.
Its just a shame that in my experience the forestry commission and similar bodies tell you to get stuffed if you ask!

Often it depends on who you know and how you approach them, in my experience, and also how long they've known you; it takes a long time to build such relationships. :)

Carte blanche wild camping by right is the very last thing I'd want to see in England, it's a very sad truth but the good places would be wrecked within a few years; just how the majority of people are these days :-(
 

Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
28,216
3,196
63
~Hemel Hempstead~
Given they are a publicly owned body I agree - schools groups, for example, should be able to demonstrate competence and gain permission.

You'd hope that but I've seen the devastation and mess left by a school that had a group on a DoE expedition on a scout site one year.

Another year, same school, same site, there was an incident where one of their idiots threw a full lynx aerosol onto a fire resulting in the obvious loud explosion which blew the fire out with ash and flaming embers flying a good 40-50 feet around. It didn't go down at all well with the group of us camped on the next pitch :mad:

Final year again the same school on the same site, got raided by the police because one of the group decided it would be good to laser a police helicopter.

This school was supposed to be one of the premier schools in the region yet they had idiots like that year on year doing dumb selfish stuff so it's no wonder landowners won't give permission for people to camp :censored:
 

rancid badger

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Not a good idea in my view - just look to Loch Lomond to see what happens in populated areas - and England is much more densely populated.

I haven't even bothered to look at the link,I don't mean to cause offence but it's a ridiculous idea full stop.

England is simply far too full of self centred, ignorant half wits of all ages and both sexes, who have neither concern for, nor understanding of, the English countryside. These same dilberts "love" the countryside so much, they can't wait to get out there and light huge fires, hack away at other peoples tree's with axes, build all sorts of "shelters", using steel cored washing line for cordage, or else buy cheap tents which they then either set alight or wreck and leave behind with their empty beer cans and broken bottles, empty tins etc etc etc. And all this just on my own doorstep! Don't get me started on the state of some of the "wild camp sites" I've come across while canoeing!
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
11
Brigantia
Well done for trying to do something about an issue you feel passionate about.
Land Access/grabbing/ownership is a complex issue in England.
 
Jul 30, 2012
3,570
224
westmidlands
Yup, there is enough litter left just in popular walking spots on a 4 hour hike such as sweet wrappers all over snowdonia, so maybe it would be taken in a similar if incorrect context, if camping was fine. Like drugs/alcohol driving, speeding, etc the squeaky wheel gets the attention, of the powers that be.

Out of interest:

http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28950453
 
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Trojan

Silver Trader
Mar 20, 2009
699
62
The Countryside
I haven't even bothered to look at the link,I don't mean to cause offence but it's a ridiculous idea full stop.

England is simply far too full of self centred, ignorant half wits of all ages and both sexes, who have neither concern for, nor understanding of, the English countryside. These same dilberts "love" the countryside so much, they can't wait to get out there and light huge fires, hack away at other peoples tree's with axes, build all sorts of "shelters", using steel cored washing line for cordage, or else buy cheap tents which they then either set alight or wreck and leave behind with their empty beer cans and broken bottles, empty tins etc etc etc. And all this just on my own doorstep! Don't get me started on the state of some of the "wild camp sites" I've come across while canoeing!


We are on the same page!
 

Goatboy

Full Member
Jan 31, 2005
14,956
18
Scotland
Given they are a publicly owned body I agree - schools groups, for example, should be able to demonstrate competence and gain permission. I don't understand why we fund the forestry commission anyway - are we likely to need wooden ships or pit props?

Was originally set up as after WWI it was realised that due to deforestation and then reliance on timber from the empire that we were down to less than 5% forest cover in the UK. The European average being circa 15-25%. The U-boat blockades had prevented vital supplies getting into the country and wood was pretty important.

Sadly the Commission is now more of a theme park Commission as it's cheaper to import timber from Russia and other countries. Maybe it should no longer be publicly funded but I don't think it would survive and a lot of areas of woodland would go and not be replanted as they're not fiscally viable.

Must say when I was a forester, both FC and private I didn't mind folk camping out on the land as long as they were respectful of the environment. And especially as an FC forester I was of the opinion that it was publicly funded so access should be granted. So saying if you faffed about and caused damage I'd chuck you off, it was there for everyone's enjoyment.

I can understand why private landowners don't want folk willy-nilly going on their land, the damage and clear-up costs can make it non-viable as there ain't a lot of money to be made in it.

Forests and woodlands today make up about 10% of the land surface (around 2.7 million hectares). The percentages of forest cover in each UK country are: England 7%; Scotland 15%; Wales 12%; Northern Ireland 6%.
 

allrightscud

Tenderfoot
Feb 13, 2013
84
1
Central Belt, Scotland
I grew up on a farm and now have my own little plot of land as well and know from first-hand experience the problems of free access to private working land. Unfortunately my access road is on a public right of way for the Clyde Walk way and I have to continually deal with the public who have no respect for other people’s property or land. It always amazes me how folk demand the right to use your property. It’s the only instance where an item you've bought and paid for has to be shared by anyone for free. If I had bought a something of comparable value, say a high end sports car, would I be expected to share it with others who fancied a seat in it? I live in Scotland so right to roam and outdoor access make it a condition of private land ownership where you have to tolerate uninvited guests. It would be fine if they respected your land and property but the majority don't. In fact the majority who I come across don't even appreciate that all land in the country belongs to someone even if it is a public body. "Its only a field", "its only a wood" I continually have to deal with cars parking in my drive, across field gates, at passing places for our single track access road, with responses like "well where else should I park it". I worked hard to buy the land I own, I work hard and invested a lot of my own money, no grants for the little fella, into restoring the woodland and the traditional orchard that goes with it but I have no rights as a land owner to protect it from the general public and un invited guest who demand to use it and wander un hindered all over it no matter what I want for the land. I am also obliged to have 3rd party liability in case some idiot comes onto my land and hurts themselves on it. Why should I have to pay for their privilege? Its a ridiculous situation in this country now that farmers can't even put bulls in fields for fear of prosecution in case some random dog walker gets injured!
In my experience the public don’t deserve or have earned the right to full access to the working private country side and if they did, it would soon become as bad as they places they are trying to escape from. As one previous poster pointed out. Look what devastation that un hindered access to Loch Lomond has resulted in. Imagine trying to run a business under such conditions. If the public want the right to roam then lands owners, who have bought and paid for the right to call the land their own should be compensated or the public should be made to pay for the privilege of access if the eventual idea is to make the country side into an other public theme park.
 

crosslandkelly

Full Member
Jun 9, 2009
26,495
2,394
67
North West London
I grew up on a farm and now have my own little plot of land as well and know from first-hand experience the problems of free access to private working land. Unfortunately my access road is on a public right of way for the Clyde Walk way and I have to continually deal with the public who have no respect for other people’s property or land. It always amazes me how folk demand the right to use your property. It’s the only instance where an item you've bought and paid for has to be shared by anyone for free. If I had bought a something of comparable value, say a high end sports car, would I be expected to share it with others who fancied a seat in it? I live in Scotland so right to roam and outdoor access make it a condition of private land ownership where you have to tolerate uninvited guests. It would be fine if they respected your land and property but the majority don't. In fact the majority who I come across don't even appreciate that all land in the country belongs to someone even if it is a public body. "Its only a field", "its only a wood" I continually have to deal with cars parking in my drive, across field gates, at passing places for our single track access road, with responses like "well where else should I park it". I worked hard to buy the land I own, I work hard and invested a lot of my own money, no grants for the little fella, into restoring the woodland and the traditional orchard that goes with it but I have no rights as a land owner to protect it from the general public and un invited guest who demand to use it and wander un hindered all over it no matter what I want for the land. I am also obliged to have 3rd party liability in case some idiot comes onto my land and hurts themselves on it. Why should I have to pay for their privilege? Its a ridiculous situation in this country now that farmers can't even put bulls in fields for fear of prosecution in case some random dog walker gets injured!
In my experience the public don’t deserve or have earned the right to full access to the working private country side and if they did, it would soon become as bad as they places they are trying to escape from. As one previous poster pointed out. Look what devastation that un hindered access to Loch Lomond has resulted in. Imagine trying to run a business under such conditions. If the public want the right to roam then lands owners, who have bought and paid for the right to call the land their own should be compensated or the public should be made to pay for the privilege of access if the eventual idea is to make the country side into an other public theme park.

Hear Hear. +1 to the above.
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
11
Brigantia
If the public want the right to roam then lands owners, who have bought and paid for the right to call the land their own should be compensated....
It doesnt work like that. We already pay for the land.
I empathise with people who have worked hard and bought their own small plot of land, but the largest landowners, a small handful of people, who own nearly all the land in the UK, do not pay their own way. And the land they own doesnt pay its own way either. They are funded by the rest of us.
What actually happens is people with titled seats going back generations, [who stole the common land from our ancestors] are funded via grants, to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds per year. To keep land sitting idle. Its then drip fed in parcels onto the urban housing market, keeping land prices sky high and keeping them rich.

You cannot go into great detail on here, without inevitably crossing a line and discussing politics, but for instance, in Andy Wightmans book; The poor had no lawyers, 'Who owns Scotland, and how they got it' he describes how over 60% of Scotland is owned by just 969 people, with an average holding of 9,735 acres. To put that into perspective, this tiny minority within the population, [less than 0.001 %] own an average of 2616 times as much as an average distribution would provide.
Wightman discusses proposed land reforms for Scotland HERE.

There's a Land Article HERE, which gives a pretty clear idea of the banditry of Land in the UK.
 
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allrightscud

Tenderfoot
Feb 13, 2013
84
1
Central Belt, Scotland
I understand the arguments for an against the big estates and who owns them and how they got them, but there are far more smaller land owners and farmers trying to stretch a living out of their land who are pestered and harassed by uninvited "guests" with no respect for the land they are abusing. I come into contact with these people daily and my opinion, to be fair, is purely based on actual experience not about a class war and prejudice against the landed gentry.

Neither I or my father grant permission any more for shooting, metal detecting, hawking, apple picking, scout and school group camping or any other activity on our property despite us both being very pro shooting and the life styles like bush crafting that goes with some of those activities. Its just not worth the hassle inviting anyone on your property now a days if you can avoid it. They all bring trouble and if that’s a sweeping statement, again its purely based on experience.

Its amazing how territorial the folk in the local village and towns are in their housing schemes with their, drives, parking spaces and gardens but how they don't think the same arguments that they use to keep folk out, aren't valid for the countryside.
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
11
Brigantia
.........there are far more smaller land owners and farmers trying to stretch a living out of their land who are pestered and harassed by uninvited "guests" with no respect for the land they are abusing. I come into contact with these people daily and my opinion, to be fair, is purely based on actual experience.....

......as I said I empathise with the smallholders or farmers stance.
 
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Jul 30, 2012
3,570
224
westmidlands
If you don't lile unexpected guests, and you want to manage it a permissable path and stiles. Firstly people in general are sheepish, secondly a lot of right to ramble land is so impassible they will not stray far from the beaten track even if given the chance. It's hard going even on an overgrown path. That will not stop wild camping, but there are limited opportunities for that, due to vegetation, the gradient of the land, exposed areas, lack of water, not much view, lack of privacy, they will mostly pick the usual spots like that of lock lomond. If you gave it some thought you could easily herd them where you want them.
 

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