A big 1+ on the beavers -- an incredibly valuable keystone species that whole ecosystems can be built upon.
I didn't realize they were native to the UK though!
Wild Boar / Beavers, etc
- Thread starter mace242
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A big 1+ on the beavers -- an incredibly valuable keystone species that whole ecosystems can be built upon.
I didn't realize they were native to the UK though!
Knowing about as many French people as I know US Americans, I suspect you either saw Parisians (roughly the equivalent of people from Manhattan) or you misunderstood their interest and they were actually exclaiming something to the effect of:
"Damn! That looks tasty!"
Ha!!! I'll bet you're right. Silly me.... They also wanted to argue about swallows carrying coconuts, but that's another matter...
Everybody wants to "get close to nature." The only problem is nobody wants nature to get close to them.
People don't want to even encounter mosquitos or poison ivy let alone a bear or a wild boar, while on a "nature walk." I think it is good if the countryside is a bit wild and "dangerous." Of course this flies in the face of the "nannyfication" of society. Every year, we in the U.S. slip a little further into the nanny cultural climate. And I hate to say it but you in the U.K. are apparently, from what I read here, way ahead of us.
I was in a store today and they had some Daisy Red Ryder BB guns for sale. Now you Brits are probably unfamiliar with these, but suffice it to say every kid in America had one for the last 40 years. On the carton, in large print was a warning from the State of California that this BB gun could not be shown in public, or brandished in public, or nothing could be done to it to make it look more like an actual firearm. Or you would be in violation of the law. It made me sick.
People don't want to even encounter mosquitos or poison ivy let alone a bear or a wild boar, while on a "nature walk." I think it is good if the countryside is a bit wild and "dangerous." Of course this flies in the face of the "nannyfication" of society. Every year, we in the U.S. slip a little further into the nanny cultural climate. And I hate to say it but you in the U.K. are apparently, from what I read here, way ahead of us.
I was in a store today and they had some Daisy Red Ryder BB guns for sale. Now you Brits are probably unfamiliar with these, but suffice it to say every kid in America had one for the last 40 years. On the carton, in large print was a warning from the State of California that this BB gun could not be shown in public, or brandished in public, or nothing could be done to it to make it look more like an actual firearm. Or you would be in violation of the law. It made me sick.
The beaver has been reintroduced in Scotland, though it's too soon to say if it has been successful. We did have wild beavers until quite recently ( a few hundred years ago) and wolves only went extinct in a similar time frame.
'Re-wilding' is very contentious - at what point in the past are we going back to? However, I do think it's worth looking at seriously. There is work going on to regenerate Caledonian pine forests that once covered much of Scotland. Although our red deer live on heather-clad moorland, they are originally forest animals.
I think a long term view is needed. The fear of wolves, although greatly exaggerated is deeply ingrained - consider all the folklore and fairy stories on wolves.It would take a long time to overcome it.
We do have an unstable ecosystem with too many deer, and I see an argument for eventual wolf re-introduction. I do not think it will happen in my lifetime, and regeneration of Caledonian wildwood is perhaps just the first step towards this. You need large areas (a few hundred square miles, with wildlife corridors linking areas) rather than small fenced areas as has been proposed at Alladale.
'Re-wilding' is very contentious - at what point in the past are we going back to? However, I do think it's worth looking at seriously. There is work going on to regenerate Caledonian pine forests that once covered much of Scotland. Although our red deer live on heather-clad moorland, they are originally forest animals.
I think a long term view is needed. The fear of wolves, although greatly exaggerated is deeply ingrained - consider all the folklore and fairy stories on wolves.It would take a long time to overcome it.
We do have an unstable ecosystem with too many deer, and I see an argument for eventual wolf re-introduction. I do not think it will happen in my lifetime, and regeneration of Caledonian wildwood is perhaps just the first step towards this. You need large areas (a few hundred square miles, with wildlife corridors linking areas) rather than small fenced areas as has been proposed at Alladale.
we currently control excess deer populations through culling, who's to say something similar won't happen with wildboar? Pigs play a very important part in woofland regenration, with a few more wildboar populations our woodlands would become much more biodiverse.
Not sure what else is on the "ever expanding ist of reintorduced species", perhaps the OT could elucidate on that...
Not sure what else is on the "ever expanding ist of reintorduced species", perhaps the OT could elucidate on that...
I got myself one of these great little toy but I dont really use it anymore. Might sell it on.
Reintroducing species is a great idea and I think that it would open our eyes to the natural world which we have lost. Besides it would probably keep dog walkers and chavs out of the way for people like us to get out and do some camping.
Reintroducing species is a great idea and I think that it would open our eyes to the natural world which we have lost. Besides it would probably keep dog walkers and chavs out of the way for people like us to get out and do some camping.
[sarcastic mode]
So, let's see...... dangerous wild species get introduced into Cannock Chase and the Forest of Dean. Dog walkers are kept out of the way. You can go camping in the wild, and make fires....
It won't be long before the nanny authorities close the area to humans as being too dangerous. For our own protection, of course.
You certainly won't be able to camp there or light a fire.
Oh.... hang on a second. They have already decreed that you can't camp there or light a fire.
Never mind.... accept my invitation to come with me to a real wilderness with real wild (and dangerous) species. Come with me on my next trip to Kenya and we'll go out into the Masai Mara and do some camping and fire-lighting there.
We will see fellas like this roaming around.
(My photo, in the Mara and in the wild, without a zoom or telephoto lens)
Oh.... hang on a second. They have already decreed that you can't camp there or light a fire.
[/sarcastic mode]
Rod
For the record. When I took that photo I was in a vehicle, open topped. Surprisingly, that is safe. If you have a body but wheels instead of legs then you are safe. If you have legs then you are food.
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I've spent a lot of time trekking in Canada, Britain and Europe (often in only parties of twos or threes) and I can honestly say the only animal to fear out there is MAN.
As long as you are sensible, follow a few simple rules and keep your eyes open, nothing is going to happen to you in the "wilds". The problem is that rural areas in this country are becoming rapidly suburbanised and landscape management decisions are being influenced by pressure groups such as dog-walkers (look at the recent shameful climb-down on the part of the New Forest National Park authority on dog walking). The only time anyone is likely to encounter an irate wild boar is when they have allowed their dog off leash and the dog has run off, disturbed a pig, panicked and returned with boar in tow to its owner. The whole incident is avoidable if we explain to a few interest groups (dog-walkers, the Ramblers, horse-riders) that they don't have carte-blanche to do what they please.
I'm all for the "re-wilding" of parts of the British landscape but I do think many conservation bodies are being naive about the extent to which this can be achieved. I can't see us managing to create an Oostvaarderplassen in the Midlands.
The landscape in this country has been shaped by human activity since the Mesolithic (12-14,000 years ago), European Brown bears were still in existence in the Iron Age and the last wolf was only killed in the 17th(?) century in Scotland. Whilst this is a very crowded country, I am constantly reminded in my landscape archaeology fieldwork of how empty many parts of the landscape now are; I can work in parts of Wiltshire for several days and not see another soul. Bear in mind that before the Anglo-Saxon period there was a far more extensive, less nucleated settlement pattern in southern Britain; people lived cheek-by-jowl with wild animals and they tolerated each other. Given our far more concentrated, nucleated settlements, there should be nmore than enough room for a few packs of wolves, elk, wild boar and red deer in today's landscape.
As long as you are sensible, follow a few simple rules and keep your eyes open, nothing is going to happen to you in the "wilds". The problem is that rural areas in this country are becoming rapidly suburbanised and landscape management decisions are being influenced by pressure groups such as dog-walkers (look at the recent shameful climb-down on the part of the New Forest National Park authority on dog walking). The only time anyone is likely to encounter an irate wild boar is when they have allowed their dog off leash and the dog has run off, disturbed a pig, panicked and returned with boar in tow to its owner. The whole incident is avoidable if we explain to a few interest groups (dog-walkers, the Ramblers, horse-riders) that they don't have carte-blanche to do what they please.
I'm all for the "re-wilding" of parts of the British landscape but I do think many conservation bodies are being naive about the extent to which this can be achieved. I can't see us managing to create an Oostvaarderplassen in the Midlands.
The landscape in this country has been shaped by human activity since the Mesolithic (12-14,000 years ago), European Brown bears were still in existence in the Iron Age and the last wolf was only killed in the 17th(?) century in Scotland. Whilst this is a very crowded country, I am constantly reminded in my landscape archaeology fieldwork of how empty many parts of the landscape now are; I can work in parts of Wiltshire for several days and not see another soul. Bear in mind that before the Anglo-Saxon period there was a far more extensive, less nucleated settlement pattern in southern Britain; people lived cheek-by-jowl with wild animals and they tolerated each other. Given our far more concentrated, nucleated settlements, there should be nmore than enough room for a few packs of wolves, elk, wild boar and red deer in today's landscape.
You are not necessarily food. Many people have traveled on foot and do still live in the serrengety amongst the animals, you just need to know how to look after yourself. If you cant/dont know how to look after youself you can get a guide to go with you. Just because you are in amongst the food chain out there it doesnt mean you have to be at the bottom.
My Dads hunted alot in the bushvelt, he carried a .450 Nitro Express H&H Double. He once saw a guide who carried a klashnikov get mauled by spots when it when "click" :l Not a serius gun for africa. PH's/Guides should carry nothing less than a .375, look at Pondoros teachings. Basically, you may feel safe when you guide looks like Che Geuvara, but its probably not going to work as well as you hope when M'bogo or his mates come a calling
Sam
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I vaguely remember reading that .375 magnum is the 'minimum' calibre for buffalo.
If the aforesaid beastie was hurtling towards me I think I would find that term less than reassuring.
Bang on Doc, most PHs (Professional Hunters) carry a large "stopping" calibre ie .416 Rigby or bigger. I Have fired a .600 Nitro express double, firing 550grn bullets :O That made my .375 H&H feel like a pea shooter. Up for sale at Holts next week(?) is Denys Finch Hatton's rifle (the guy in out of afrika, as well as a dangerous game legend) its a .450NE double by Charles Lanaster, i think, i hope Father Christmas comes early
Sam
its because all people want is an exact replica of what has been for the last few centuries. its like the struggle to keep pandas alive. if they wont breed then thats their fault and they are supposed to become extinct. people need to understand that things change.
the re-introduction of species doesn't usually cause too big a problem.its the introduction of non-native species for instance grey squirrels were not native before they were introduced to the UK. but one of the most common countryside animals, the rabbit, was actually quite a good introduction until someone decided they were adorable and therefore shouldn't be eaten. i say let things happen how they would happen if we weren't here and accept it without interfering
the re-introduction of species doesn't usually cause too big a problem.its the introduction of non-native species for instance grey squirrels were not native before they were introduced to the UK. but one of the most common countryside animals, the rabbit, was actually quite a good introduction until someone decided they were adorable and therefore shouldn't be eaten. i say let things happen how they would happen if we weren't here and accept it without interfering
Just saw this , i don't have a view either way ( i think .)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8436670.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8436670.stm
bring back cave bears, is what i say.
but really, we cant go back, only preserve what we have. adding anything else to the mix means its very difficult to predict what will happen.
but really, we cant go back, only preserve what we have. adding anything else to the mix means its very difficult to predict what will happen.
i think we should have the wolves back as well.. and dodos... and that giant prehistoric ox whose name i cant remember. then we will see who is culling who!
lol
misplaced nostalgia and ill-thought out schemes are one thing...but advocating the way things are now out of pessimism seems just as ridiculous to me.
i think we can all agree that the real problem is the way in which Western society operates; it just isn't very compatible with wildernesses - it seeks to control, which is pretty much the polar opposite.
but i don't think that means we should give up, resign oursevles to smug cynicalism. culling bull idea's like the E.U. Common Agricultural Policy, and the whole ethos of turning Earth into something human is the start. population decrease would follow as soon as people turned away from the acquisitional mode of thinking which has dogged us since someone differentiated between the have's and the have not's.
Thats my lunatic 2cents
i think we can all agree that the real problem is the way in which Western society operates; it just isn't very compatible with wildernesses - it seeks to control, which is pretty much the polar opposite.
but i don't think that means we should give up, resign oursevles to smug cynicalism. culling bull idea's like the E.U. Common Agricultural Policy, and the whole ethos of turning Earth into something human is the start. population decrease would follow as soon as people turned away from the acquisitional mode of thinking which has dogged us since someone differentiated between the have's and the have not's.
Thats my lunatic 2cents
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