Why a folding knife

[fielder1963]

Around 1979 1980 I worked on a nursery growing tree seedlings, in a rural area. I openly wore a small sheath knife, about a 4 inch blade, on my belt, that I used each day. I used to call in at a petrol station etc on the way home with it showing without a thought and without any comment or attention.
How times have changed.
A fixed blade was better, no soil getting into it as it would in a folder.

 

[Herman30]

I don´t care much about social norms but if it was allowed by the law I would definatly be carrying a sheath knife on my belt daily. Not for self defence or any particular reason; it´s just a tool - who knows when it might be usefull. And in my country men have had a knife on their belt for centuries, it´s part of the heritage.

 

[Chris]

So nobody has come up with a reason as to why folders originated. Don't we have any historians here?

After reading through I have come to a preliminary conclusion that status and novelty might have been the reason. Never underestimate people's vanity.

I'm not so sure that I agree with you, I think people have come up with plenty of viable reasons, though you seem to think that "but they could just carry a fixed blade" makes those reasons invalid, which I'd have to disagree with. Someone wanting a knife where the blade is protected, that you can keep in a small pouch or on a string around the neck or in a bag, without having to wear a sheath on the belt, isn't really that unusual an idea.

 

[Pattree]

@TLM
Are you dismissing convenience, storage and safety?

 

[Pattree]

And in my country men have had a knife on their belt for centuries, it´s part of the heritage.

……… and women?

 

[Herman30]

Not as common among women, is my understanding.
Historically the housewife/lady of the house carried a so called housewives knife.
A skeleton knife without wooden handle. Looking like this (there were variations of course):

 

[TLM]

Remember the starting point, 2500 years ago, most arguments taken from today do not apply.

 

[Chris]

Remember the starting point, 2500 years ago, most arguments taken from today do not apply.

<citation needed>

 

[Broch]

I believe the starting point is not disputed - independent/parallel invention in Mediterranean Europe and China around 300 to 600 BCE. The quoted reasoning was because of a need by travellers and merchants to have a safer, easier to carry, knife - not as a weapon but as an every day tool - preparing food etc.

Apparently, there were no locking folders until around the 1600s

 

[TLM]

<citation needed>

I wonder ...
no laws are even near similar
cultural conventions and habits are very different
storage was not a problem then and not really today
fixed blade knife in a proper sheath is not more unsafe than a folder

So citations about what?

 

[Broch]

I wonder ...
no laws are even near similar
cultural conventions and habits are very different
storage was not a problem then and not really today
fixed blade knife in a proper sheath is not more unsafe than a folder

So citations about what?

I confess TLM, I'm having difficulty with anyone on this thread not accepting that a folder is easier and safer to carry in a pocket, in a bag, in your luggage, than a fixed blade knife that can slip out of a sheath. If you don't want to carry a blade on your belt (which, apparently merchants and voyagers in China and Europe didn't) then having to get a sheathed blade out of your bag, then find somewhere to put the sheath, then find it again when you've finished the task having had to clean the knife to get it in the sheath, all seems like totally unnecessary faff when a simple folder does the job.

I'd ask the opposite question - why bother with a fixed blade knife when a folder will do - remembering, we are talking about merchants and travellers not wild camping, hunting, or fighting.

 

[Laurentius]

Well, i guess the Crime prevention act of 1953 didnt so much apply to standard type sheath knives back then. All i was saying is that in more built up areas, it wasnt a done thing due to social convention and accepted norms. Rural area were not the same,, (and rightly so imo) Just saying you didnt do through need. You did it because, as you say... everyone did.

People do not necessarily stop doing a thing because there is a law against it, they stop when it no longer becomes socially acceptable. In my teens I wore a bowie knife on my belt with my dad's approval, nobody in authority ever said to you it was against the law or you should not be doing it. Of course you wouldn't wear it in town on a Saturday afternoon that would have been against the unwritten rules.

 

[Minotaur]

Sorry, I can’t think that the initial adoption of folding knives had a social or legal basis.
I am certain that the reason was one of practicality and convenience.
These are still the reasons that I use them today.

View attachment 100902

These three knives are:

WW2 jack knife. Military issue.
WW1. Military issue.
Victorian sailors knife Naval issue.

They were issued for heavy duty use to people who were not restricted to civil law and who weren’t involved in particularly social environments.

In the case of the two military examples it is quite possible that their owners also carried bayonets.

Folding knives were chosen for a reason. I don’t know what that reason was but I’m certain that it was practical.

Edited to ask:
Presumably the current version of the Jack knife was issued to some members of this forum. Can they tell us what it was used for? Why in preference to a fixed blade?

The Army version is to provide a screwdriver for your rifle. A rope tool up to WW2 would have been very useful.

I confess TLM, I'm having difficulty with anyone on this thread not accepting that a folder is easier and safer to carry in a pocket, in a bag, in your luggage, than a fixed blade knife that can slip out of a sheath. If you don't want to carry a blade on your belt (which, apparently merchants and voyagers in China and Europe didn't) then having to get a sheathed blade out of your bag, then find somewhere to put the sheath, then find it again when you've finished the task having had to clean the knife to get it in the sheath, all seems like totally unnecessary faff when a simple folder does the job.

I'd ask the opposite question - why bother with a fixed blade knife when a folder will do - remembering, we are talking about merchants and travellers not wild camping, hunting, or fighting.

I think we sort of agree that it must have been for messy tasks and hostile environments.
I also do wonder if it is a Sunday best situation in that you had a folder as your edc to beat up in day-to-day use, and the fixed blade was for parties & showing off.

 

[Minotaur]

No it was not. Knives have been seen as normal everyday wear as your clothes until the last few decades.

The US 2nd Amendment is because of the carry laws in the UK. The first was in the early 1600s, I think.

 

[TLM]

I confess TLM, I'm having difficulty with anyone on this thread not accepting that a folder is easier and safer to carry in a pocket, in a bag, in your luggage, than a fixed blade knife that can slip out of a sheath.

In 500 BC pockets would not exist for the next 1700 years, pouches and bags did but locks in folders would not be invented for some while so no difference actually a fixed blade in sheath would be safer. If your knives have a tendency to slip out of their sheaths you should have that fixed.

I do own several folders and use them so I am not against folders in any way but I still think that many things that now speak for folders did not exist 2500 years ago.

 

[Chris]

In 500 BC pockets would not exist for the next 1700 years, pouches and bags did but locks in folders would not be invented for some while so no difference actually a fixed blade in sheath would be safer. If your knives have a tendency to slip out of their sheaths you should have that fixed.

I do own several folders and use them so I am not against folders in any way but I still think that many things that now speak for folders did not exist 2500 years ago.

I have to say, I think you’re making a lot of assumptions based on your own personal opinion which are not reasonable when assessing why other people with different opinions might’ve done something 2500 years ago.

Your views about whether a folding knife is as useful as a fixed blade knife are entirely subjective. To you, a fixed blade knife with a well-fitted sheath is good enough. To others, it isn’t as practical as a folding knife. These subjective opinions and personal preferences were just as prevalent 2500 years ago as they are now.

 

[TLM]

These subjective opinions and personal preferences were just as prevalent 2500 years ago as they are now.

Definitely not, they had a lot less to choose from, with totally different world views. I agree that many human traits were equal to today but the the surroundings were not.

 

[Broch]

Well, I think we've actually answered the question - at least to my satisfaction; I'll give it no more thought

 

[HillBill]

People do not necessarily stop doing a thing because there is a law against it, they stop when it no longer becomes socially acceptable. In my teens I wore a bowie knife on my belt with my dad's approval, nobody in authority ever said to you it was against the law or you should not be doing it. Of course you wouldn't wear it in town on a Saturday afternoon that would have been against the unwritten rules.

That's what i said more or less in my first post.

 

[Ozmundo]

My understanding of utility knives found as graves goods is that they seem to have been placed inside the persons clothing.
If we take the placement as indicative of life, and other items such as jewellery seem bear this out, a pocket folder makes a lot of sense.