What's with all the membrane liners? Recommendations please.

[Antonymous]

I am after a new "woods" jacket. I would love ventile, but it's a bit too pricey!
Next down the list is a Fjallraven, but again quite pricey.

Nearly all cheaper jackets seem to have a waterproof membrane, which just make them sweaty, even when they claim to be breathable.
What is the point of trying to make every jacket waterproof? Am I soft, in that I wouldn't want to spend long in driving rain without sorting some shelter?

Do we have any strong membrane-philes or phobes?

I'd identify as a phobe for in the woods. I value windproof and breathable over waterproof. As a big lad I sweat a bit too readily, so need it wicked and evaporated ASAP.

Any thoughts?
And any recommendations for cheap alts. to ventile / G-1000?

 

[Adze]

I've got one of these, with a liner:

http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/flcpk1ua.html

It's not waterproof but shrugs off light showers pretty well. For anything heavier I've a ripstop (Jack Russell in a crisp packet, perhaps, but waterproof as all getout) poncho to go over the top.

 

[MikeLA]

Go for a green SAS type Smock

 

[Jaeger]

Aye Up,

Austrian surplus KA03 combat jacket - robust poly cotton.

 

[Big G]

I picked one of these up cheap.. a couple of year ago : https://www.copshopuk.com/karrimor-sf-trojan-jacket-olive

Great cold weather / wet weather jacket. Never been sweaty in mine.. but wouldn't like wearing it when the weather warms up.

 

[caorach]

The truth is that everything you wear will make you sweat, or hold it, depending on conditions. On a hot day if walking hard a cotton t-shirt will not be long until it is wet.

So, it is impossible to come up with a perfect solution. If you are going to be out for long periods often only in what you stand up in then staying dry is important and on a wet day this means that keeping the rain out is also important and I think that, while far from perfect, jackets with a membrane can have a role to play in this.

For me the "nearly perfect" system is the British Army one with a very breathable windproof smock, which is shower proof when coated with a DWR type finish, in conjunction with a lightweight waterproof breathable liner to be worn inside the smock when it gets very wet. This allows you to be wearing a breathable smock with lots of pockets that is lightweight, robust, and ideally suited to most outdoor activity for most of your time but when it is chucking it down or you get long periods of rain then the liner goes on and you are completely waterproof and still modestly breathable. It is then down to you to use your brain to balance up getting wet from the inside against getting wet from the outside and so making the decision as to when to wear the waterproof liner plus you can also modulate your activity levels when wearing the liner to reduce sweating etc.

This system also allows you to mix and match the waterproof liner - so you can use mil surplus Goretex type jackets or very lightweight commercial ones. As an example I have a very lightweight and fragile Regatta "Pack It" jacket as one of my waterproof layer options as it packs down small and is very lightweight and the smock protects it against wear so it makes an ideal solution in warmer conditions or for hard walking but in colder conditions or where I might be less active then I'd often wear a mil surplus Goretex layer, it is more robust and heavier and so better suited to cold conditions or periods of low activity.

Without question this system is the best currently available but it requires you to think about your clothing and what to wear at any particular moment plus you will not see it advertised in some magazine for £1000, that's enough to put most people off.

 

[mrcharly]

The jacket market is mostly driven by the walking market - and walkers go out on the hills. You don't have to go far to be several hour's walk from shelter, so something that keeps wind and rain out is valuable. It's simple to buy a membrane jacket that pretty much does the job. A system like caorach describes takes more thinking through and more management. I reckon it's also much more usable, when you are out long-term.

 

[Robson Valley]

Visit a waterfront chandler. Look at the "offshore sailing coats" if really waterproof is a necessity.
Actually functional wrist seals when you need them. They fail after 10 years.
Big enough to wear almost any number of layers underneath. Mine is 4XL.
The hood is a violent shade of fluorescent lime green = safety feature = tax free.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have tried the Arktis Rainshield packable membrane liner under both a custom Swandri coat and an old cotton British DPM coat. There is something to note, having the water/windproof layer under the outer shell means you get little or no insulation benefit from the outer layer. I froze in the Swandri until I put the membrane on the outside and blocked the wind. The cotton coat got wet and despite wearing a fleece under the membrane liner I froze, that wet cotton was like a refrigerated jacket.

Clearly you can make that system work, but it takes more insulation inside the membrane than if you are using a wind/waterproof outer layer. Same thing as wearing Ventile really.