what filter?

[Ferrion]

Hi all, i'm new to the board and to Bushcraft, I've been into camping since my days as a Boy Scout but it's only recently that i've started learning Bushcraft.

Anyways i was wondering if you fine people could recommend a good water filter for my kit? as at the moment i'm restricted to where i can go by the amount of water i can carry, also it would be a good tool to have i would imagine.

Oh and i'm a student, so price matters

Cheers all

 

[Adi007]

Welcome aboard!

The most basic of filters would be the millbank bag ... you filter the water through this to remove sediment and suspended matter abnd then chemically treat the water or boil it. There are planty of places to get a millbang bag from ... www.strikeforcesupplies.co.uk is one such place.

 

[jakunen]

Try the ones Gary sells on BearClaw I've got the £17 one. Small, light weight, does 60l+, filters & purifies, removes cysts etc.

FANTASTIC piece of kit. (About time you started giving me commission boss )
you can extend the capacity by putting a piece of stocking over the inlet filter.

 

[Adi007]

Try the ones Gary sells on BearClaw (http://www.bearclawbushcraft.co.uk/trading/cookware.htm), I've got the £17 one. Small, light weight, does 60l+, filters & purifies, removes cysts etc.

FANTASTIC piece of kit. (About time you started giving me commission boss )
you can extend the capacity by putting a piece of stocking over the inlet filter.

I've been thinking about these before ... how do you know when the 60l is used up?

 

[leon-1]

ADIl, this one is quite simple, the filter actually stops working (from what I can gather there is actually more in the purifier than is required, but once the filter has filtered out a certain amount of crud they effectively jam and stop water passage through to the purifier itself).

These are based on the original pre-mac's (the PWP and MWP) which i had the opportunity to use when a friend had one to trial (they were based just up the road from where I used to live a long time ago).

They are liked by parts of the army due to their size and weight. ):

 

[leon-1]

Hi all, i'm new to the board and to Bushcraft, I've been into camping since my days as a Boy Scout but it's only recently that i've started learning Bushcraft.

Anyways i was wondering if you fine people could recommend a good water filter for my kit? as at the moment i'm restricted to where i can go by the amount of water i can carry, also it would be a good tool to have i would imagine.

Oh and i'm a student, so price matters

Cheers all

Sorry, should of replied to this first, the pre-mac's are good, but if you are looking for the best, then look at the Katadyn filters (you don't have to go for the pocket filter look at the mini), due to the ceramic filter they use they are very effective against most everything.

Incidentally Katadyn used to have a rival company called PUR who now have thier packing filters made by Katadyn, so it may be possible to get a PUR branded filter cheaper than buying from Katadyn itself, but still have the Katadyn performance.

One thing about the katadyn is they are larger than the pre-mac's, but they have a very large capacity (I think the mini was about 5,000 litres), have just checked I was wrong, they have a capacity of 7,000 litres depending on water quality to quote the website. The katadyn is also more expensive, but if you will use it a lot then this is the filter for you, as pound for pound it is better value

 

[jakunen]

Correct Leon, they do 'seize' once they've been used to capacity, but like I said, using a pre-filter extends the life, as with any filter system.

I'm not surprised squaddie like them, they can't go wrong, and take up so little space. I'm buying 3 more. One for a spare, and one for my flight bag and one for mum's. Will make sure next tim ewe go to Tunisia she doesn't end up in hospital from drining bottled water! (The hotel had a crown corking machine and were filling bottles from the tap...:yikes: :angry: :***: )

 

[alick]

My vote is for the MSR miniworks filter as this has a durable ceramic filter similar to the katadyn and a high output. More importantly they are regularly available on ebay new from the states at very good prices.

My personal preference is to do filtering separately from chemical purification, (i) because it's not necessary to use chemicals in every location (ii) because normal purifiers use iodine which has side effects of it's own and (iii) because there are better chemical treatments available if you take the mix and match approach.

Cheers

 

[masongary44]

I swear by the Pre-Mac, the catadyn is a bit fiddly, and being ceramic, if it takes a bad knock and you get a hairline fracture, guess what.... it is not an effective filter any more and you cannot risk that..!!!

The pre-mac uses layered filtration with an iodine treatment combination which makes it robust and reliable. And if you go for the 60 quid variant, it is easy to replace cartridges without any tools etc... again i think the catadyn is a bit less friendly for field maintenance.

G:

 

[leon-1]

I swear by the Pre-Mac, the catadyn is a bit fiddly, and being ceramic, if it takes a bad knock and you get a hairline fracture, guess what.... it is not an effective filter any more and you cannot risk that..!!!

The pre-mac uses layered filtration with an iodine treatment combination which makes it robust and reliable. And if you go for the 60 quid variant, it is easy to replace cartridges without any tools etc... again i think the catadyn is a bit less friendly for field maintenance.

G:

The Katadyn's are not that easy to break, the kat's mini variant is a direct screw out filter and the other thing involved is cost and performance.

The pre-mac is £60 and will last for 200 litres, it then costs £25 for replacement cartridges, the katadyn costs £70 will do upto 7,000 litres on one filter, so long term cost of the pre-mac against one filter for the Katadyn is £25 X (34 cartridges+original unit)=£910.
If you then add in the MSR miniworks which can do upto 2,000 litres on each filter at a cost of about £40 per replacement filter and £80 for the whole unit then you are looking at a very costly item when compared to both the MSR and Katadyn.

Even if you carry a spare filter for the Katadyn it will only cost £40. If you look at it in these terms then you can see that both the MSR and the Katadyn are value for money.

Next you have flow rate, the pre-mac does 400ml per minute whereas the Mini Katadyn does 500ml per minute, the MSR does 1litre per minute.

The next thing is weight, the pre-mac weighs in @180grams, the Katadyn weighs in @210grams and the MSR mini works weighs in @454grams or about a pound.

For size weight and cost with the down side that the MSR is faster the katadyn is top notch, there are very few down sides and for paying that little bit more you save yourself a hell of a lot in the long run.

Don't get me wromg the pre-mac's are very good, but long term the Katadyn and the MSR are better. They also do not use chemicals when you don't need to. :wave:

 

[masongary44]

Hmmm fair point...

 

[Adi007]

I agree Leon ... for extended use the PreMac filters are expensive. Far better to have a ceramic based filter (I use the Katadyn Mini). I've had one for a year and a half without problems. You can also seem to pick up the odd filter for the Katadyn cheap at outdoor shops.
However, as an emergency backup, the PreMac might be a good option.

 

[leon-1]

I agree Leon ... for extended use the PreMac filters are expensive. Far better to have a ceramic based filter (I use the Katadyn Mini). I've had one for a year and a half without problems. You can also seem to pick up the odd filter for the Katadyn cheap at outdoor shops.
However, as an emergency backup, the PreMac might be a good option.

Well that's fair do's especially the little PWP type ones (single tube disposable small very light and easy to use and will fit in a shirt pocket).

My major problem is where do the emergency back ups end, I carry far too much as it is (old/bad habits don't die that easily). The other thing is I have done courses on filtration and purification of water so I know a bit about emergency type filters and purification of water, I am not an expert but can and will get by and I tend to be safe rather than sorry.

The thing that had caused me to write the bit above was not because the pre-mac's are inferior in any way, but Stinger had said that cost was an important factor and the MSR's and Katadyn's long term are cheaper.

I have used the Katadyn's (mini, pocket and bottle), I know the MSR's by reputation and currently use an old PUR Explorer (I got it cheap because the O ring inside was missing and had read reviews that at the time stated that it was the only real alternative to the Katadyn pocket filter, fix the O ring issue sorted and saved myself about £50).

When it expires, as it will I will go for either the MSR or Mini, more than likely the Mini since size and weight are always a factor with my kit.

 

[Gary]

I've not read all the remarks on this thread so if I say something already covered I apologise.

I like pre-mac best for two reasons firstly it is what I have used for the last 15 years and i have used it all other the world without fault and secondly best it is one of the few filters that purifies the water too - and this is something to be wary off - a lot of filters only filter - and if thats what your after buy a milbank bag).

Cost and longevity ect are issues and the cheapest option is a billy can and you boil your water throughly - to a rolling boil - this is the safest and simplest means. Puritabs and such are of limited use but make sure your allow a good contact time and shield from UV ect - also read the instructions carefully as they can effect people in different ways.

Leon1's filter served us ok on Islay but just to see, I actually used water straight from the river, unfiltered, unboiled ect and was ok.

As for questions of Pre-mac costs, I dont think they are any more expensive than others on the market - but as my granny used to say 'you can buy cheap and you can buy twice!' If long term use is your thing then the Ranger is the thing for you - I have have mine since 90 and during a tour of N.I used it every day for two years filtering water for a 4 man team - and it is still going strong today where students use it to filter there water on the Tenderfoot course.

As pointed out I only use Pre-mac so I am biased anyway, but if it helps most other instructors also recommend them too.

But as with all things its courses for horses.

 

[ScottC]

There are planty of places to get a millbang bag from ... www.strikeforcesupplies.co.uk is one such place.

I can't find the millbank bag on that site, is there a direct link you have to it adi? Ive looked under all the tabs and still no luck

 

[bothyman]

I can't find the millbank bag on that site, is there a direct link you have to it adi? Ive looked under all the tabs and still no luck

Bushie try >> http://www.strikeforcesupplies.co.uk/stock.php?page=cooking

 

[ScottC]

Nope, it's not on there..

 

[Ed]

Yes it is, 11th item down .... Water purification kit £16....

Ed

 

[leon-1]

Yes it is, 11th item down .... Water purification kit £16....

Ed

Ed have you got one of these?

Do you know the capacity of the bag (it looks like one of the small ones that take forever to do anything)?

Does anyone know if they come with the line on the side marked, if not have they instructions as to when you should start filling your bottles from them?

Does anyone know where you can get the large Millbank bag and not the small one?

 

[ScottC]

So it is..whoops, how stupid i am!