What do you wear under your Buffalo shirt?

[tombear]

I forgot to say, another reason why I like the shirt design is I can fit the waist belt on my pack or bumbag through the handwarmer pockets which cinches the shirt onto you while you can still bimble along with your hands in your pockets (risking not being able to pull them out in time and banging your face on the ground when you trip...).

ATB

Tom

 

[Rain man]

Awww I miss my Special 6 now. I owned it for 3 years and rarely used it so had to sell. I was just too warm!!

Incidentally I never wore anything under mine.

All this talk tho makes me want it back again, very very warm. Shame they're no good for sitting around a fire tho eh.

 

[oetzi]

How much sense does it make to wear an outer shell next to the skin?
No T-shirt in a sensibly choosen material (wool, synthetik) would reduce its function in any way, or am I mistaken?

I had a look at the website and, frankly, I dont buy this:
"All the lined overhead garments work most efficiently when worn next to the skin. In this way the pile fabric wicks moisture away from the skin more rapidly, where it is then dispersed by the Pertex to the external surface to evaporate and keep the body dry and free from chilling".

So the fleece will "wick" moisture away from the skin, but how can it achieve this when its a loose fitting garment? It needs to be tight on the skin to achieve this , otherwise the the sweat would only run down the upper body.
Furthermore, to wick most effectivley, the fleece nedds to be treated/designed (chemically or surface texture for example) to soak and transport the moisture. As does any other underwear designed for this purpose.
But, and thats the big caveat, if the fleece has such a treatment, it soaks any water from the outside equally fast, since it cant differenciate between rain and sweat. So anything to penetrate the pertex outer layer will not stay on the fleece`s outer surface but ooze into the fleece.
Just try it out by wearing an undergarmet designed to wick as outer layer in a slight drizzle or even heavy fog, and then do the same with a bog-standard fleece. You will get soaking wet with the former, while the latter will withstand the impact of moisture from the outside much better.
You cant have it both ways. And a garmet designed to combine base- middle- and outerlayer in one is a comprimise at best which trades-off too many contradictionary functions.
Buffalo even admits that its possible to add a suitable undergarment, thus making the above statement more or less obsolet:
"Although the Mountain Shirt and other Pertex / Pile overhead garments are intended as a base layer to replace various other layers of clothing, it is recognised that in certain circumstances an under layer is sometimes needed, but if this is the case then that layer must be of a material that is able to disperse moisture away from the skin, it is extremely dangerous to wear an under layer of cotton as cotton retains moisture and very rapidly chills the body in even moderately cool temperatures, causing hypothermia".
Outside this it looks like a good garment.

 

[tombear]

Yup your pretty much mistaken.

I can't speak for the variations that use what looks like a fleece fabric but the material the original shirt is made of is more akin to fur with the hair on the inside and wicks better than any sythetic or marino T shirt I've tried. It is supposed to be a close fitting garment.

I can't say I understand the physics and I know it doesn't work for some but I and a hell of a lot of other people have used them for 20 years or more in all sort of weather conditions and we are still around.

I think the coment Bufalo make about needing something underneath it is more of a marketing ploy than saying the whole principle the system doesn't work. They want the layering is everything crowd to buy it as well. Of course there will be extremes were its unsuitable, although saying that don't various native peoples in the far north use a single fur on the inside garment? but for those we get in Britain, for when you are active its always been warm enough for me.

Just my two pen'ath.

ATb

Tom

 

[Paul_B]

The pile actively moves water away from the skin by a kind of capilliary action to thepertex where it is spread out to evaporte over as large a surface area as possible. Pertex actually kind of absorbs the moisture moving it away and spreading across its surface from the dsamp areas. The capilliary action has something to do with the high surface area created by the pile. Think why your fingers get cold quicker in gloves than mitts. Its because the fingers are separated and have greater surface available to lose heat from. Similarly the pile "fingers" have a higher surface area and the moisture spreads out up it I guess towards the outside. It helps that in rainf it is wet through and similarly when you are really sweating. The evaporation at the surface allows the water from within to replace it further assisting the capilliary effect.

I hope that helps, but could just be a load of BS based on a basic science understanding of fabric technology. Needless to say the base layer has a slightly different mode of action hence it is best not to put it between your wet skin and the wet pertex pile garment. IT will still work to some degree. The better the base layer moves moisture from the skin to the outside without absorbing it the better. That is why MErino wool which absorbs moisture is perhaps not the most efficient depsite the fact you will feel comfortable in it. Polypro is probably the best (smelly Helly Hansen tops) as it is hydro phobic and wicks faster than pretty much any other fabric,

Sorry if that is a bit long winded, but I hope it helps. Also I hope it is right, sounds like it could be to me.

 

[Paul_B]

BTW Montane also do an excellent pertex-pile garment in the extreme jacket and smock. These are about to be re-released with some improvements in their design. Which is something as they were IMHO slightly better designed than the buffalo tops. Which is probably not the consensus on here among the buffalo-philes.

The other thing about Montane is that they recommend using it with a highly wicking base layer such as their bionic range of base layers. This is totally contrary to Buffalo's recommendations. The point it the bionic is a very, highly wicking base layer. That is the most important thing to note, which is why cotton t-shirts are kind of a bad idea in harsh conditions. BTW if anyone is wondering the biopnic range has polypro in it IIRC possibly in a combination with merino wool.

 

[tombear]

Cheers! that makes sense to me.

I must admit that I now use Snugpaks version of the pile shirt, the Elite by choice as it is a slightl improvement on the older version.

Mardale used to do a PP hat and I love mine to bits as it's so light you don't know your wearing it. I did add some milleners wire to the brim as it flopped about hopelessly. Oddly I don't use it when it's wet as I'm abit of a nance about my head getting damp (and my feet, the rest don't seam to mind)

On the rare occasions It's really cold I have some pile trousers. The shop had both the Buffalo and snugpak version and of the two I prefared the Buf ones as the Snugpak ones were a lot thicker and heavier.

Mardale also made shells out of the same stuff and they weigh nowt and were good for adding another layer if it was really windy or more often for changing into to sleep in dry stuff. Like the old zoot suits Surviavl Aids sold

ATB

Tom

 

[Everything Mac]

i generally wear whatever i have on before i get cold.

which is usually a t-shirt with a thin top or shirt.

must admit that i get the cold bum syndrome too. - saying that mine is a snugpak not a buffalo - not sure if they differ at all.

andy

 

[PREPER]

I wear a Snugpak pile shirt with a webtex base layer and I love it. I do find it a bit warm though and don't wear it often except in the extreme cold e.g. snow. I tend to wear an old Snugpak sleeka mostly as it is very light and packs away small. It cost me £15 second hand so I don't mind if a spark, thorn, damages it etc.

PREPER..........

 

[Walks with dogs]

I have a montane extreme smock. Its been used literally every day for the last six months to walk the dogs in ALL weathers . I usually wear a tshirt amd a microfleece underneath. I wore it two weekends ago in Snowdonia on a winter skills course. On the two days we had cold clear crisp weather and a full blown blizzard on top of a ridge. I wore a merino base layer underneath and was lovely and comfy the entire time. I started off with the fleece on but that went back in the rucksack about ten inuts in and stayed there.
Pile and pertex for me from hereon. But I would always wear a base layer.

 

[nige7whit]

I have a montane extreme smock. Its been used literally every day for the last six months to walk the dogs in ALL weathers . I usually wear a tshirt amd a microfleece underneath. I wore it two weekends ago in Snowdonia on a winter skills course. On the two days we had cold clear crisp weather and a full blown blizzard on top of a ridge. I wore a merino base layer underneath and was lovely and comfy the entire time. I started off with the fleece on but that went back in the rucksack about ten inuts in and stayed there.
Pile and pertex for me from hereon. But I would always wear a base layer.

I used to have a Special 6, and a Mountain Shirt, and wore them next to my skin.....

Once, in the Brecon region, I had a sideways wind, causing ice to build up on the side of my head and body, and I still had the side zips open on the Mountain Shirt. No complaints about the windproofness, not quite sure why I sold them....