Are you guys sure removing it's locking ring makes it legal? I heard it doesn't count because it's still a lock knife..disabled or not..
Is this true?
Is this true?
What are Opinels like?
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ring(virole) is easy to remove ,be it with pliers or blade stuck in a vise with two screw drivers!
and even easier to put back in place with a mallet. ring on the bench,opinel in left hand,hammer in other,and knock the knife into the virole! (grooove facing grooove)
and even easier to put back in place with a mallet. ring on the bench,opinel in left hand,hammer in other,and knock the knife into the virole! (grooove facing grooove)
I'm sure. Take the mechanism off and it isn't a lock knife anymore, because there isn't a lock.
So people would highly recommend an Opnel No 6 or 7 over a cheap unbranded lock knife. Just need to find the cheapest place selling them now.
Grendel, the opinel knives are true value for money mate. They are also a good place to start if you want to learn how to force a patina on carbon steel!
I'd go for the #9 as it'll be good for slicing bigger food or the #6 to carry around for more every day tasks as it can be made legal for edc.
I'd go for the #9 as it'll be good for slicing bigger food or the #6 to carry around for more every day tasks as it can be made legal for edc.
difficult to say theres nothing in the legislation about modifications - we can assume than a knife that wont lock is not a lockknife by definition however if the accused seperated the locking ring and still carried it that might be seen as trying to get round the legislation rather than modifying an item so that it meets the regulations.
oddly enought the whole lock knife issue is based on case law - its not even strickly speaking in the legislation - somone might one day sucessfully argue the case that the previous judgement was an incorrect interpritation of the legislation - but I wouldn't hold your breath....
if it was me i'd just buy a no 5 perfect for EDC
I'd also look at Joker knives...
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Opinel No 7 ordered. If it isn’t tough enough it was only £9 wasted.
I don’t carry an EDC due to the nature of my job so will only be used for bushcrafting. i can use the 7 inch Bowie for heavy work.
I don’t carry an EDC due to the nature of my job so will only be used for bushcrafting. i can use the 7 inch Bowie for heavy work.
There seems to be a lot of worry & misunderstang about the current knife laws, How many people here have been or know of anyone who has been arrested & charged for carrying a penknife & how many of those knives were opinels ?
I don't know of anyone being caught and arrested with an opinel but I know of a few young lads who've been arrested for carrying other forms of locking knives, that's is probably due to the opinel range not being to the taste of the common thug but that's just my guess.
We have to be carefull though, our culture is very sensative towards the knife topic and the media bring up knife crime as often as they can as it sells papers. Decent law abiding men and women like us want to be within the law when considering any option of carrying a knife as not to be seen or branded as a criminal.
People from outside of the UK most likely won't be able to understand our culture but I can assure you the most sensible thing for us to do is research the laws and be respectfull and on the right side of them for our own benefit.
We have to be carefull though, our culture is very sensative towards the knife topic and the media bring up knife crime as often as they can as it sells papers. Decent law abiding men and women like us want to be within the law when considering any option of carrying a knife as not to be seen or branded as a criminal.
People from outside of the UK most likely won't be able to understand our culture but I can assure you the most sensible thing for us to do is research the laws and be respectfull and on the right side of them for our own benefit.
Where I haven't seen any misunderstanding? plenty of worry but as yet no misunderstanding aside from the OP of the EDC thread. I agree alot of time is spent on here and BB worrying about following the letter of the law when so few of us have been stopped and searched but when your job/career requires an advanced CBR check your likley to be a little worried arn't you
opinels above the no5 lock therefore are not exempt and therefore you need good reason to be carrying one - its up to you to decide whether you have good reason....
I think foreigners can understand both the reasons behind the Knife laws & the honest brits wish to abide by them.
As for undertanding them, not knowing if it's the actual blade length or cutting edge which counts or not sure if by removing the opinels locking system it falls within the law does not look like understanding them to me.
As for having a good reason to be carring one, I believe it is more a question of the intervining police officer(s) interpretation rather than the carriers, there will be constables that won't take the matter any further & others that will. Luck of the draw.
One can only hope that the thugs & gangs won't have the idea to on the rampage using rucksacks to attack people or they'll ( ruckies) be put on the no no list too.
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can i assume your not from the UK? the Law or Act as it stands is quite clear;
The CJA 1988 mainly relates to carrying knives in public places, Section 139 being the most important.
"It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches." [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]
so by law its up to you to provide the 'good reason' - you provide it to either a) the policeman, failing that he arests you and you explain it to b)the desk seargant he disagrees with you so you then prove it to c) the CPS - they dont like it either so you then have to explain it d)in court - personally I would be getting a layer once it passes b) let them do what they are paid for - and if you EVER plan to get a job that needs CRB check I would suggest you don't accept the caution as te easy way out!
blade lengh wise its also a cuting edge of 3" - however is that on the curve, lengh of blade or lengh detemined by penetration into an object - that has so far not been tested in court. I think most feel if the whole blade is less than 3" they are safe from every interpritation possible.
Some hope. The case law precedent was set by the House of Lords, which was at the time the senior Court of Appeal for England, Wales and Northern Ireland. A decision of the HoL was binding on all lower courts. The senior Court of Appeal for England, Wales and Northern Ireland is the new Supreme Court, but you'd have to go all the way to the Supreme Court and absolutely no guarantee of overturning the previous HoL verdicts.
The situation in Scotland is different. The senior Court of Appeal in Scotland is the High Court of Justiciary (HCJ), and the only stuff which gets directed to the Supreme Court from the High Court of Justiciary is 'devolution questions' (I don't really understand what constitutes a devolution question, though). I can't quote a Scottish legal precedent set by the HCJ, but the HCJ does make the point that although it is (generally) the senior Court of Appeal in Scots law, it may well look to English experience as a guide. In other words, I can't really see that the HCJ coming out with a different answer to the HoL.
Safer to stick with 'less than 3 inches and no lock.'
Cheers
You make it sound so clear, so why the confusion by both the public & police officers.? Some members here have contacted their local police stations to clarify if a certain catagory of knife was legal or not & have had differing answers, even working & ex coppers on this forum offer various affirmations as to what is allowed or not.
To the best of my knowledge, the swiss army knife IS legal, but do you still need a valid reason to carry one should you be stopped & searched ? Also is carrying a S.A.K in a leather case on your belt in a public place allowed ?
To get back to Opinels, I find it hard to believe that a police officer would press charges against someone found in possesion of one ( N° 7 or less) in a camping or bushy situation. even though, technically, it's illegal. There is surely a certain amount of leeway given to policemen/women in such a situation.
Incidently, do police officers carry the means of measuring knife blades with them ?
Frankly the confusion does the police/government a favour they arn't exactly going to publises to the average scrote that they can carry a none locking knife are they?
However your missing the point of the legislation -
If you are stopped with a sub 3" none locking knife you dont have to prove anything (baring havi some restricted areas). The police will have to prove you have it on you for a malicious reason - anything else - locking, fixed, axe machete etc. you will have to have a good reason
camping or a bushy situation is a good reason if YOU believe it is - at what level/point you will have to prove it is down to a) the circumstances you are stopped, what condition you are in, where you are stopped, how you behave when you are stopped.
The legislation isn't intended to control legitamate activity - its just a shame us law abiding bugger are so worried/stressed about it when the scrotes couldn't give a monkeys...
as for a SAK if its sub 3" and none locking its fine - carry it on your belt if you want but expect eyes (and possibly reactions) to be drawn to it, who knows what reaction from an officer you might get, it'l be down to the context I've discussed above however play it cool as the law is on your side
I think however i'll leave it there as we have strayed a bit off topic - if you want more infor i would suggest you head over to the law forum on britishblades....
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Many police around here carry Leatherman tools - which have rulers etched into them...as well as locking blades!
Here we go again.
There will always be confusion. People don't take care to read things, they paraphrase, they misreport, they quote somebody they heard in the pub when they were drunk, they make it up as they go along... Once upon a time in the days before the Internet I went to a police station to ask if I needed to let them know about my distress flares. The constable on the desk laughed at me. Then his sergeant came out, gave him a dressing down, and explained the situation. Just luck, really, that the sergeant heard the exchange, otherwise I'd have gone away with incorrect information. The police are people too.
You're not being careful. There's a difference between something which is not allowed at all (always illegal in the UK, such as things like flick-knives) and something which is allowed under some circumstances (legal in the UK only with reasonable excuse, such as fixed blades) and something which is legal to carry in the UK under most circumstances (generally sub 3" non-locking folders). You don't need to give any reason for carrying a non-locking folder with a small blade in a public place, but don't take one to your local night club unless either you're installing the disco lighting or you fancy spending a night in the cells and buying a new knife when you get out.
The Act doesn't talk about things like leather belt pouches, but concealed weapons are an issue and the police are entitled to take circumstances into account when they make their decisions. Flashing a blade around tends to attract suspicion. Hiding one in your underwear tends to attract even more suspicion if it's discovered. My personal take is that discretion is called for and I try not to advertise that I'm carrying a knife even when I'm pitching my tent, but if I were approached by an officer and he questioned me about such things I would be happy to declare to him that I had a multi-tool (or whatever) with me and, if it's not obvious, why. That has happened a couple of times in the past (at border crossings) and the officers have been happy with it.
It is not illegal. In a camping or bushy situation you have what the law allows for -- reasonable excuse -- so you could wander around camp with a 12" Bowie and it would be up to others to prove that you were in the wrong, not for you to prove that you were in the right. However your reasonable excuse would evaporate if you got into a drunken brawl around the camp fire.
Yes there is leeway, that's a lot of what goes into the officer's training. An officer's warrant card can be used to measure a blade. If you're behaving responsibly, the officer really doesn't care if the blade is a millimetre longer than the law strictly allows. If you're behaving irresponsibly, he really doesn't care if the blade is a millimetre shorter -- and you're probably going to be nicked.
I assume this is addressed to me?
Ack! I may well have got things wrong - it may well be just a Court of Appeal ruling after all.
Potentially the Supreme Court could overturn the Court of Appeal ruling, but this would take a huge amount of time and money, with no guarantee of winning.
Cheers
Good job I got the No7 which still seems small in my hands. Out of interest can you file down the wood to make it more comfortable in the hand then once filed re-waterproof the wood with car paint lacquer or a good soak in Linseed oil?
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