Well Known Suppliers Demise
- Thread starter wanderinstar
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I've never used Outdoor code, but I had been looking at some of the deals that were being offered and was very impressed. I can only offer my sympathies and hope that Andrew gets himself sorted out and the business back up and running. Some one who puts the amout of effort into his job as he obviously does(going by the posts on this thread), does it for more than just the money. That's the sort of person I certainly would prefer to do business with.
As to those who threatened Andrew and his family. imbeciles, that the gene pool could do without on two counts:-
1) threatening violence is never going to get you anywhere, I work in customer service and if some-one threatens me, (happens all too often) I will do nothing more than the bare minimum to resolve their issue, even though I normally pride myself in my attitude to dealing with customers (as Andrew seems to do) and will always do my utmost to sort things out for a customer.
2) What sort of idiot sends a man with a shed full of sharp implements their address, and then threatens his family????
Good luck Andrew, I just hope the feelings and good wishes expressed on this thread find their way to you and help to keep you going, and that you manage to got your business back up and running.
As to those who threatened Andrew and his family. imbeciles, that the gene pool could do without on two counts:-
1) threatening violence is never going to get you anywhere, I work in customer service and if some-one threatens me, (happens all too often) I will do nothing more than the bare minimum to resolve their issue, even though I normally pride myself in my attitude to dealing with customers (as Andrew seems to do) and will always do my utmost to sort things out for a customer.
2) What sort of idiot sends a man with a shed full of sharp implements their address, and then threatens his family????
Good luck Andrew, I just hope the feelings and good wishes expressed on this thread find their way to you and help to keep you going, and that you manage to got your business back up and running.
I dont think we should discuss this threatening behaviour subject any further. Any information should be handed over to the authorities for direct action from them. As for outdoor code, i myself started a thread a few months back basically slating the service i got. I was in contact with Andrew and the matter was resolved, since seeing this thread ive realised Andrews problem, hes to nice. He has put himself out probably charged to little especially postage. I for one love a bargin but not at this cost. Im in agreement with Falling Rain is there anything we can collectively do to help?
I make you right on this point . but being a single parent it is likely that at some point i may have to bring my terrors to a meet . If it was somebody from here that did the threatening , how can you be sure that they wont kick off at a meet ? I know that mine wouldnt be the only children that have or may go to meets and i dont think that would be something they need to witness . Not forgeting that Andrew doesnt deserve an incident . I am sure there are people here that would stand by him (i include myself in that) , but surely it would be better to ban this person (if they are a member here) than risk any unpleasantness . As i see it it is a safety issue for Andrew as well as anyone one here , after all correct knife useage is something we all belive in here .
Pumbaa
Andrew is one of the few genuinely nice blokes on the net, but that's really not the point is it?
Andrew has gone out of business. It doesnt happen instantly, many coulkd see the signs long before he closed his doors. While his internet account was offline, he still managed to advertise things for sale on ebay. There are always ways of accessing the internet - mobile phoine accounts, library's, internet cafe's etc. Even if you have to travel to get to them, you do what you have to do, because people have given you their money for things you have advertised.
Was he a victim of his own success? Well, not really. He sold things far too cheaply, in the end, he cut his own throat. That's not a sucessful business model. If you are in business, you are in business to make money, not give things away.
If you place something up for sale, you are contractually and morally obligated to fill that contract. It is a debt and it must be payed. It's no different from borrowing a pound at work or £500 from your bank. It's not flexible and it's not optional. If your ability to repay debts and fill orders is removed for whatever reason, you MUST stop trading. To continue trading, while knowingly unable to fill the orders is illegal and fraudulent ...and of course, morally wrong. No matter how desperate you are to save your sinking business.
People work hard for their money and a debt is a debt. Tony, the owner of this site is owed a seriously large amount of money by Andrew, that is money he absolutely cannot afford to loose - not many people can. Tony has done nothing wrong aside from trust Andrew with his money and also has a family to feed. Andrew has spent the money, without sending the goods.
Please, if you are going to sit in moral judgement on someone who has run up multiple business debts, dont base your judgement on whether or not they are a "nice bloke" - because it has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a business, not a popularity contest.
I like Andrew, always have and I feel sorry for him, but I also feel sorry for the people who have lost their money to him. I hope he gets back on his feet again and is able to earn everyones trust again, but before that, I hope he pays his debts first.
With regard to threats of violence, simply name them, forward the threat to the admin here if they are a forum member and they will be banned. The same is true on the forum I run. Mob violence is intolerable. Or, inform the police. Nothing more needs to be said on the issue.
Andrew has gone out of business. It doesnt happen instantly, many coulkd see the signs long before he closed his doors. While his internet account was offline, he still managed to advertise things for sale on ebay. There are always ways of accessing the internet - mobile phoine accounts, library's, internet cafe's etc. Even if you have to travel to get to them, you do what you have to do, because people have given you their money for things you have advertised.
Was he a victim of his own success? Well, not really. He sold things far too cheaply, in the end, he cut his own throat. That's not a sucessful business model. If you are in business, you are in business to make money, not give things away.
If you place something up for sale, you are contractually and morally obligated to fill that contract. It is a debt and it must be payed. It's no different from borrowing a pound at work or £500 from your bank. It's not flexible and it's not optional. If your ability to repay debts and fill orders is removed for whatever reason, you MUST stop trading. To continue trading, while knowingly unable to fill the orders is illegal and fraudulent ...and of course, morally wrong. No matter how desperate you are to save your sinking business.
People work hard for their money and a debt is a debt. Tony, the owner of this site is owed a seriously large amount of money by Andrew, that is money he absolutely cannot afford to loose - not many people can. Tony has done nothing wrong aside from trust Andrew with his money and also has a family to feed. Andrew has spent the money, without sending the goods.
Please, if you are going to sit in moral judgement on someone who has run up multiple business debts, dont base your judgement on whether or not they are a "nice bloke" - because it has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's a business, not a popularity contest.
I like Andrew, always have and I feel sorry for him, but I also feel sorry for the people who have lost their money to him. I hope he gets back on his feet again and is able to earn everyones trust again, but before that, I hope he pays his debts first.
With regard to threats of violence, simply name them, forward the threat to the admin here if they are a forum member and they will be banned. The same is true on the forum I run. Mob violence is intolerable. Or, inform the police. Nothing more needs to be said on the issue.
You obviously know more about the specifics of what these threats were than i do, i cant remember reading any thing about the threat of edged weapons being used in this thread although i could have missed it. If i havent then as i said the discussion about threats should stop as people are already jumpming to conclusions with out access to the full facts, and this is turning in a lynch mob. If the facts are known by yourself or anyone else on this site they should report them without delay to the authorities so that action can be taken.
Its out of business eh... oh bug....r. I've only been waiting for the Polar pure since March. Its a shame as at the time I was working on testing water purification alternatives for the MOD. As one of the few UK importers of the stuff it could potentially have been a good earner for the company. Does any one know of other UK suppliers of Polar Pure? As to the money I lost, my accountant wants to go down the small claims route, I dont know if I can be bothered as yet. Is there a phone number for the company so that we can talk?
Fair play to you Martyn for largely going against the flow in this particular thread. I may well be in a minority here but I for one agree with everything you have said and think you have put forward some very valid points!
Don't know of any other importers. Andrew only started because I bugged him into getting me some.
The only thing I can suggest is bugging someone else into starting to import it.
I agree.............I haven't all ways seen eye to eye with Martyn on some subjects, BUT I totaly agree with him on this one......Well said
as always, as the thread unfolds, the information grows. debts are debts, and can only be written off by redemption, either way the threats do no good, I've had loads of people owe me over the years, and there is no way you can give somebody a £ beating, it doesn't get your money or goods back, and does it really make you feel any better? i doubt it, after a while you would be thinking ' i am as bad as he' so let it be a learning experience, and pray it doesn't re-occur.
It's very easy to kick a man when he's down, not a mark of courage at all.
That is a very serious allegation which I do not believe can be supported. You would have to prove intent in a court of law. Given that in the middle of all the hail and flack Andrew continued to fulfil all the orders that he could that would be a very difficult thing to prove.
As a small businessman myself I have a very clear understanding of the huge pressures that can fall upon a sole trader.
I have known times when a clear choice had to be made about whether to buy food to eat or put fuel in my van so that I can continue to service the customers that will still take up to 90 days to pay me.
Fortunately I have passed those days now but I personally don't think anyone that has not been in such a position is qualified to start throwing stones first.
That is a very serious allegation which I do not believe can be supported. You would have to prove intent in a court of law. Given that in the middle of all the hail and flack Andrew continued to fulfil all the orders that he could that would be a very difficult thing to prove.
As a small businessman myself I have a very clear understanding of the huge pressures that can fall upon a sole trader.
I have known times when a clear choice had to be made about whether to buy food to eat or put fuel in my van so that I can continue to service the customers that will still take up to 90 days to pay me.
Fortunately I have passed those days now but I personally don't think anyone that has not been in such a position is qualified to start throwing stones first.
Having received good service from Andrew in the past I personally have no gripe, with him, but I can also understand some of the views of the customers who were let down by him.
However I feel since this post has been running both sides have had the chance to air their views both negative and positive, and it may be time for the thread to be closed and allow people to form their own opinions from those views already posted, as I feel further posts may only lead to more controversial posts which will not help anyone.
Both the prosecution and the defence have both had their say and in my own humble opinion the jury is best left out on this occasion.
It is time for us all to remember what I think, having attended a couple of the moots what we all think BCUK is about, a great community, let us all move on, get out and enjoy the great outdoors
However I feel since this post has been running both sides have had the chance to air their views both negative and positive, and it may be time for the thread to be closed and allow people to form their own opinions from those views already posted, as I feel further posts may only lead to more controversial posts which will not help anyone.
Both the prosecution and the defence have both had their say and in my own humble opinion the jury is best left out on this occasion.
It is time for us all to remember what I think, having attended a couple of the moots what we all think BCUK is about, a great community, let us all move on, get out and enjoy the great outdoors
