water purification question

[multi]

Hi, just wondering if a fool proof method of hiking waterpurification would be using the katadyn pocket water pump followed by a ultraviolet steripen.
I assume ill still be left with salts if I obtain the water from the sea but nearly all nastys would be removed , leaving me unlikely to get ill?
or is there anything else ill need.
Ive just concluded this from searching the better of water purifyers being the katadyn pocket, and read that doesnt kill viruses, but a steripen kills 99.9 percent of viruses, but I always miss things out when searching the net or people state otherwise and can guide to better methods, which wher maybe this forum could help me out.

Thanks.

Adam

 

[lannyman8]

hey up Adam, to give you all the info you may require check out this thread...

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28811

there is more than just the biological (bacteria and viruses) you need to consider, allot of streams and the sea in Britain contain heavy metals which often are not filtered out and can not be removed any other way, generally...

the best way is to simply know the source of water, the area it comes from and where it flows, if there are outlets from factories or farm run off then it should be ok chemical and heavy metal wise, all this would need is the sediment removing and bring it to the boil to kill any bacteria etc....

have a look at the link and see what you think, very much info to take in...

hope this has helped.

chris.

 

[multi]

Sounds like spending 350 quid on drinking gear is pointless and just another act of taking peoples money . Shall I just take a pot and boil all water?

Adam

 

[lannyman8]

sorry just seen your reply dude...

well depends what your doing really, if your walking with minimal kit and want to get the miles in then a pump/filter treatment system could be the way to go, just to save time though.... if you are just out for a brew and a bimble then boiling from a stream is normally ok, depending on the stream location...

for me i use both methods, boiling and a ceramic filter pump with iodine block, the pump filters and treats the water with 1 system which is good on the move for 2 reasons, 1) its quite quick and easy to do. 2) when treated the iodine is not effected by the motion when walking, chlorine is over a period of time..

the draw back of iodine though is that it can have some bad effects after a prolonged period of use....

you could always just use puri-tabs, (chlorine tablets) after filtering any sediment out.....

when it comes to filtering its easy to do, no real need for an expensive filter, an old pair of jeans is all you need, just cut half a leg off fold the end over x2 and sew it shut, job done, you can use old sheets etc etc etc etc too......

as for the use of sea water there are only 3 main ways i know of to drink it, solar still (which is ok and easy to make but a pain, it relies on the sun too) or use a reverse osmosis pump (which cost loads) or boil the salt water in a big pan, put a thick towel over the top, the cloth catches the steam which is salt free, you then wring this out into your clean salt free pot/container, loads of faf but would save your life if really needed....

hope this helps dude, any probs send me a private message.....

regards.

chris.

 

[lou1661]

I assume ill still be left with salts if I obtain the water from the sea but nearly all nastys would be removed , leaving me unlikely to get ill?
or is there anything else ill need.

I think you would be likely to get very ill but from the salt in the water not any contaminants!

 

[lannyman8]

i use this bad boy when i need a filter....

Pre-Mac Trekker

 

[multi]

Thanks for all the replys, still cant get my head around it, youtubes got videos of people taking water out of rivers and then using the katadyn pocket which filters to 0.2 microns, (im thinking the person sounded american so I assume its an american river which I then assume is a lot more vuirus free than our english rivers and lakes as human settlement are pretty much next to all water ) he then drank the water he pumped, I was assuming using a steripen after the katadyn would leave the water free from everything and make the water risk free....
....actually before igo on, what about adding a small amount of charcoal, would that make the water risk free?

 

[Teepee]

I use one of these; the inline Aquaguard Eliminator 3-1

http://www.drinksafe-systems.co.uk/products.php

Been using the same filter internals for about 3 years on the very similar Webtex filter. I've drunk from sources that I know are very dodgy with them.
It works incredibly well IMO with the Source big zip bladder, which is my current system.
If I was buying again though, I'd get a Sawyer inline for its tiny virus stopping pore size and virtually unlimited life.

 

[lannyman8]

no mate, adding charcoal is by no means a sure way, the only true way to be sure is to use a filter and then boil or chemically treat it, the pump i showed above does all of that when you pump the water through it, leave for 3 mins and its safe to drink....

i have been looking at this for a long time, the filter above in my opinion is a good choice, it filters to a small size and treats with iodine, all in all does what is needed, its slowish to pump through but hey, it does what it says to a good standard, a safe standard that you can rely on....

your choice dude....

 

[multi]

The point one on that sawyer is pretty descent. I have 2500 miles to walk, and that one weighs in at 2 oz, I could manage one of them on top of another means of purfication/

If I used chemicals would I get ill from them at some point in 2500 miles
P.s thats 60 days of heavy walking so the pump will be used a lot in succession (life expentancys another thing im looking for) the katadyns supposed to last a long time

 

[Laurentius]

Is there any point filtering water and treating it to a higher degree than is afforded to tap water which is sometimes far from clinically dead ?

 

[lannyman8]

The point one on that sawyer is pretty descent. I have 2500 miles to walk, and that one weighs in at 2 oz, I could manage one of them on top of another means of purfication/

If I used chemicals would I get ill from them at some point in 2500 miles
P.s thats 60 days of heavy walking so the pump will be used a lot in succession (life expentancys another thing im looking for) the katadyns supposed to last a long time

in that case i would go with your original choice and use chlorine as a back up, iodine may cause some problems over 60 odd days, the tablets weigh nothing and can be decanted into a bottle to save room too....

2500 miles hey, sound like a good trip....

 

[multi]

Are there any side effects to chlorine?

 

[multi]

Sorry I do not understand what you mean

 

[rg598]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the safety police, I think you are over thinking the whole issue. Viruses are not a particular problem in industrialized nations such as the US and Europe. They are mostly a problem when traveling in countries where human waste is dumped directly into water sources. The steripen is heavy. What I would do is take a regular filter like the Katadyn Hiker, Premac, Sawyer, or MSR Miniworks. Along with that take a small bottle of chlorine to add to the water in case the source is particularly suspect (except for the Pre-mac). As someone else mentioned, the set up you are talking about will give you more sanitized water than what you get from your tap.

 

[multi]

I have the protec duty belt support bracers and a tactical duty belt which ill be able to attatch a steripen too.

But weight of gear is gradually becoming a problem, when considering taking a tarp as well as a 1 man tent, would use the tarp for urban areas for easy escape from troublemakers, im walking coastline for the majority so will mostly live off the sea.

 

[Teepee]

The sawyer will stop everything, the pore size is so small it will stop all viruses if that is your concern.

TBH, I'm just as interested in stopping heavy metals and chemicals which the Aquaguard, Webtex(same internals) and Pre-Mac will do as they have a charcoal filter. I've actually smashed one apart and know that the construction is as stated on the first two.

As an addition, I've added a small paper inline petrol filter that stops the large stuff getting to the filter anyway.

 

[Graveworm]

I am not quite sure why you'd use a Katadyn filter followed by a Steripen for purification as opposed to a backup, it's a lot of hassle? The Steripen kills everything. A coarse prefilter will remove any lumpy stuff but without it it's safe to drink in terms of living nasties. If you want a filter system then there are lots around. The Lifesaver is pretty good at dealing with as much as possible but as others have said we don't have much risk of viruses anyway. Reverse Osmosis is not as expensive as it was if you want sea water but they are heavy, the handheld ones are emergency only and they take a very long time so not a good first choice.

 

[santaman2000]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the safety police, I think you are over thinking the whole issue. Viruses are not a particular problem in industrialized nations such as the US and Europe. They are mostly a problem when traveling in countries where human waste is dumped directly into water sources...

But bacteria are another matter; particulary if your in farm country where there's loads of fertilizer run-off or anywhere your water source is stagnant. And in rural areas without city water and sewer, the septic tank leech fields also allow human waste back into the water table (although granted it's extremely diluted)

 

[British Red]

Lifesaver bottles are a manually pressurised reverse osmotic filter.

Righto multi here are the problems you might face

Bacteria, viruses, cysts & protozoa, inorganic conaminants (chemicals, heavy metals etc.).

Bacteria are small and can be removed by filtration, killed by chemicals or heat, or deactivated by UV light
Viruses are very, very small. The very best filters can screen them out. Otherwise, its heat, chemicals, or UV
Cysts and protozoa are tough little beggars but larger. They can survive heat and chemicals for longer than bacteria, but any filter good enough for bacteria will remove them.
Chemicals are a pig. There are all sorts of them and each needs its own way to remove them. The real nasties are generally reduced or removed by activated charcoal (not regular charcoal). This chemically bonds with certain chemicals and retains them (adsorbtion).

So, to be safe, you want a filter that removes bacteria, protozoa and cysts. Most quality water filters will do this. If they have an activated charcoal component (you will often see a filter described as carbon ceramic), this will do as much as you can do for chemicals.

Now you are left with the virus problem. A very good filter will remove these (e.g. a Lifesaver bottle). Problem solved.

A medium quality filter will contain a chemical to deal with them (e.g. iodine resin). Problem solved with a bit of aftertaste.

Some filters don't deal with them. You can live with the risk, boil the water to a rolling boil after filtering, treat with chemicals or treat with a steripen

Your risks of chemical contamination of running water in the UK are low.

Viral contamination is not a huge risk but possible.

Either get a high to medium filter, or consider a post filtration treatment.

Red