Volunteering, work in the Cairngorms
- Thread starter Dogoak
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I suspect that it's more the thousands of Wwoofers and other 'volunteer' workers whom you would offend with such an opinion that matters.
I have friends and acquaintances who are more than happy to experience a widely varied life by doing such work. They have enormous networks of friendships that span the globe, and a lifetime full of rich memories that leaves them not just well housed and fed and happy, but soul deep contented.
Many go on to set up such smallholdings themselves too.
M
I have friends and acquaintances who are more than happy to experience a widely varied life by doing such work. They have enormous networks of friendships that span the globe, and a lifetime full of rich memories that leaves them not just well housed and fed and happy, but soul deep contented.
Many go on to set up such smallholdings themselves too.
M
Interesting topic.
In my late teens and early 20 ties I did voluntairy work too. In my own country and quite some abroad.
In all.....I do have to say I regret it. Not that it bothers me daily or stuff, but if I have to make a balance.....
One has or will have a family and/or other financial responsibility....Even my young voluntairy days day I wished I did paid work, since these are the times to make some reserves for coming kids and future plans.
People can think what they want, and they can be offended. but I dont think its ok. Its unpaid work, so bad treatment of a person.
It is a fact in our country that a lot of people are financialy in trouble. The youngsters don't have the situation that was around 60/70/80 GENERALY SPEAKING.
Houses are unpay able, a lot of flex contracts, even zero hours flex contracts. People in my town are in big debts, even simple stuff like clothes are not something general.
Also now a days, students have to LOAN money to get educated, so when finished they have 50.000 debt. Nice one...NOT!
Nah sorry I regret every hour of unpaid work..........in those those days I had alot of skills and stamina (as most of that age)....it was just unpaid work.....thats a fact.
In my late teens and early 20 ties I did voluntairy work too. In my own country and quite some abroad.
In all.....I do have to say I regret it. Not that it bothers me daily or stuff, but if I have to make a balance.....
One has or will have a family and/or other financial responsibility....Even my young voluntairy days day I wished I did paid work, since these are the times to make some reserves for coming kids and future plans.
People can think what they want, and they can be offended. but I dont think its ok. Its unpaid work, so bad treatment of a person.
It is a fact in our country that a lot of people are financialy in trouble. The youngsters don't have the situation that was around 60/70/80 GENERALY SPEAKING.
Houses are unpay able, a lot of flex contracts, even zero hours flex contracts. People in my town are in big debts, even simple stuff like clothes are not something general.
Also now a days, students have to LOAN money to get educated, so when finished they have 50.000 debt. Nice one...NOT!
Nah sorry I regret every hour of unpaid work..........in those those days I had alot of skills and stamina (as most of that age)....it was just unpaid work.....thats a fact.
It's not offensive Toddy. YOU think it is offensive. You might consider it or think.
But the fact is that it is unpaid work in a modern day economy....
One can also be forced by so called good paid Managers, saying its good for your CV. Which is not true. If you are a good worker you are a good worker and people will find out soon any way.
ps
Property, company.....I consider it all theft, we only need what we use, the rest we can share. One works with people not for.
That coming from a model citizin, for your account.
Go and read the blooming site.
There's a huge world out there, and in many places, the Cairngorms for instance, there is no cheap accomodation. If you want to spend time there it costs money, a lot of money. Working for a few hours to have someplace to stay, and be fed and given access to transport (there's no other way other than walking to get around, public transport is not feasible for most of that area!) then what the site is offering is a very good deal.
Accusations of slavery, in a modern world when we know fine about those poor souls who are so abused, is offensive.
Especially when this site is most definitely not run by slavers.
M
There's a huge world out there, and in many places, the Cairngorms for instance, there is no cheap accomodation. If you want to spend time there it costs money, a lot of money. Working for a few hours to have someplace to stay, and be fed and given access to transport (there's no other way other than walking to get around, public transport is not feasible for most of that area!) then what the site is offering is a very good deal.
Accusations of slavery, in a modern world when we know fine about those poor souls who are so abused, is offensive.
Especially when this site is most definitely not run by slavers.
M
Nomsd64, I know these is a contradiction what we did and what I believe.
We did it out of need, the choice was the hardship in the arctic winter forest or the luxury and ease of the farm.
We did not pay with money as it would have complicated everything due to tax legal aspects.
The only thing we paid were if we caused damage to somebody's property or had to kill reindeer.
We did it out of need, the choice was the hardship in the arctic winter forest or the luxury and ease of the farm.
We did not pay with money as it would have complicated everything due to tax legal aspects.
The only thing we paid were if we caused damage to somebody's property or had to kill reindeer.
I've come late to this thread, I did a bit of voluntary work when younger, as the industry I was trying to get into it was the 'done thing' to get your foot in the door, I did have fun but was lucky that I could support myself for a time while trying to get there. But once you start doing voluntary work later people expect you to work for free, well that was my experience - maybe I wasn't a 'good' worker, but it definitely felt like some companies were taking advantage of cheap labour.
Not much metaphorical about that quote though.
Ah, I think we have diverged somewhat from the topic of the OP's post, but then, the forum thrives on conversation.
Volunteering, as in this kind of working for lodgings, etc., is pretty commonplace and well established among sites where income is both very limited and very seasonal. Especially in remote areas with no large population or infrastructure available.
If it's not for you; don't do it. There's no money in it, but then there's no money available to pay enough to cover the costs of accomodation elsewhere (and transport to and from) anyway.
I hear what you're saying Mousey; I'm an archaeologist, and it was a compulsary part of my degree that I did so many months of hands on work before I could graduate. Multiply that across the thousands of archaeology students in the country in any given year and there's no way that an industry already struggling to get paid can afford to pay students. Food and board is not even routinely offered. Many folks who aren't students are so keen to 'experience archaeology' that they pay for the privilege of being on site and doing scut work. There are sites and companies who do offer lodgings and the like, and who genuinely go out of their way to make the 'volunteering' an educational experience for students, but most are looking for free labour in return for a quick write up and a signature for the University so that the student has the requisite months of work. If you want the degree, then you do the work.
Most look on it as experience, and it's experience that can't be gotten elsewhere. There's no way they'll pay even minimum wage on top of food and board though. I got lucky and found volunteering led to paid employment, and I wasn't alone in that, but it was still a real struggle for many others.
The 'market economy' and 'money renders' doesn't always work well, because unless a lot of people are prepared to pay well for a service to cover all costs, and that inevitably leads to competition, and that competition often makes for a very poor selection in the end of a few viable money makers, or 'volunteering' is an accepted part of the way people manage to make things run.
M
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Following a stay on Hadrians Wall Kim and I did think long and hard about spending some time "working" at the Vindolanda site but just could find the funds needed to pay for this working holiday as rewarding as it would have been. I do feel that this is a whole different game. I wonder what the reply would be if I emailed them to say I am a pensioner so could I have a week in August for a tenner a night please. I might find that as a business they would not like to do things on the cheap!
Ok Toddy, you don't seem to get it, but that's fine. I'm not gonna hand it with a teaspoon.
You think it's ok for people to work so many hours for "free", and I think it is an unhealthy spiral. I've done " slave" jobs myself, so the pro's would have to heavily outshine the con's for me to find them remotely acceptable.
But we are both allowed our opinions, even when they differ
Hopefully this business will get a hard worker with the correct face to go with it, and that everybody will be happy.
"Bring a compass. It's awkward when you have to eat a friend."
You think it's ok for people to work so many hours for "free", and I think it is an unhealthy spiral. I've done " slave" jobs myself, so the pro's would have to heavily outshine the con's for me to find them remotely acceptable.
But we are both allowed our opinions, even when they differ
Hopefully this business will get a hard worker with the correct face to go with it, and that everybody will be happy.
"Bring a compass. It's awkward when you have to eat a friend."
It's volunteer labour, not slave labour. That's the niggle. It's not 'free' labour, it's paid for in bed and board and bike….which are all expensive in that area, for a lot less than full time work.
If you want someone to work on your land under the same kind of deal, then seriously, look at the Wwoofer site. You might well find someone who would dearly like to live with you for a while in exchange for some work and a lot of free time in another beautiful bit of the world.
Hammock man ? if you want to work there, why not apply ? it's a lovely bit of the world, but it's not an easy living there. I've worked in the area, as well as visited it for walking, etc., even in Summer the weather can be very challenging though.
M
If you want someone to work on your land under the same kind of deal, then seriously, look at the Wwoofer site. You might well find someone who would dearly like to live with you for a while in exchange for some work and a lot of free time in another beautiful bit of the world.
Hammock man ? if you want to work there, why not apply ? it's a lovely bit of the world, but it's not an easy living there. I've worked in the area, as well as visited it for walking, etc., even in Summer the weather can be very challenging though.
M
I suspect this may be one issue in play with the OP as well; volunteers are generally a simpler, less regulated option than paid labor.
Ok Toddy, you don't seem to get it, but that's fine. I'm not gonna hand it with a teaspoon.
You think it's ok for people to work so many hours for "free", and I think it is an unhealthy spiral. I've done " slave" jobs myself, so the pro's would have to heavily outshine the con's for me to find them remotely acceptable.
But we are both allowed our opinions, even when they differ
Hopefully this business will get a hard worker with the correct face to go with it, and that everybody will be happy.
"Bring a compass. It's awkward when you have to eat a friend."
I can't help but compare the facility in the OP to a guest ranch or guest farm. A guest ranch or guest farm is a working ranch or farm that charges guests to stay and help with the work. Like them, the facility in the OP is a private, commercial enterprise that makes a profit (although it seems as if the OP make a much smaller profit) by taking paying guests. Personally I see no fouls here.
Never mind working for free; see my above reply to Arya. It's quite possible (and more common than many would believe) to actually have them pay you to to allow them to do the work.
Thank you for the tip on Wwoofer, but that post was kind of meant as a joke.
"I'll even throw in meat and ready cooked meals" was just a way to express that I think a labour system like this should at least cover the daily needs of their workers.
I'm sorry that I wasn't able to convey that in the original post.
"Bring a compass. It's awkward when you have to eat a friend."
Hammockman, you seem obsessed with the fact that the people running this place do so to make a living. I'm pretty certain that they are doing this for the love rather than the money and at the risk of labouring the point, 5 hours at minimum wage would probably not cover your basic accommodation plus food and the opportunity to be in a great part of the world and in the company of like-minded people.
Perhaps you be happier volunteering for a charity which pays its CEO significantly more than the PM?
I've worked for my pitch on campsites, volunteered for local conservation and international aid charities (which are big businesses and whose CEOs are paid accordingly) and a few years ago spent a year managing the infrastructure of a remote 3200 square km national park in Africa. Do I feel like a slave or that Ive been exploited? - definitely not. Could I have used the time spent volunteering to earn more money? - of course, but for me at least, life is about experiences and feeling I am doing something worthwhile and I feel enriched by the opportunities I have had and lucky that I have had the financial security/modest needs to let me do these things.
FWIW, I've also volunteered to take kids from two state schools (one in a pretty deprived area ands another for seriously autistic kids) into local nature reserves so that they can experience nature. Ironically, state schools are not charities whereas most fee paying schools are - perhaps those who believe that voluntary work should be restricted to the charity sector would be happier if I invoiced the schools for my services or found a local private school where I could show posh kids around woodlands probably smaller than the one they have at home?
FWIW, I'm not blind to the negative consequences of volunteering and wouldn't touch one of these paid voluntourism holidays with a bargepole - both would be volunteers and those they think they are helping are exploited by cynical travel companies.
http://www.projects-abroad.co.uk/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=UK_Generics%3EVolunteer%20Abroad&utm_term=volunteering%20holidays&utm_content=Volunteer%20Holiday%3EExact
I learnt a long time ago that there will always be someone earning more than you working less hard at something less worthwhile than you are and if you let that bother you, you will become bitter and twisted. These guys in the Cairngorms look like they have a great ethos and if more were like them, the world would be a better place and I very much doubt that they are getting as rich as Croesus doing it.
Just because you can't afford to pay for the privilege of a holiday sitting in a trench (which unless you have the necessary training probably means being in a quiet corner of the site under the supervision of an exasperated archaeologist who would much prefer to have someone who knew what they were doing working for them but their boss insists that people on working holidays are a good source of income for the project), don't begrudge some nice people for offering some other nice people the opportunity to trade a few hours work for a great experience.
Rather than muttering about what you could get for a tenner, jump in with both feet, you might get accepted and might even enjoy it!
To be frank, I love my work. But if I had the $$$ to keep my life style I would quit. Yesterday. Love or no love.
But I would still love to know how they do with the (illegal) immigrants, insurance and NI.
The job the volunteers do is not sitting behind a desk where the worst injury you get is a sore backside or a paper cut finger.
But I would still love to know how they do with the (illegal) immigrants, insurance and NI.
The job the volunteers do is not sitting behind a desk where the worst injury you get is a sore backside or a paper cut finger.
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I have always done a lot of volunteering/charity work.
Spent 3 months in Haiti at a mission in Port au Prince. (Watched Baby Doc depart in two heavily loaded planes. Stitched up loads of people in the ensuing revolution/rebellion.
Now I am a Rotarian. Our rules ( international) are that we do not support any business. Has to be a charity, be it a school, a clinic, paying for a new well in some godforgotten country.
Paint the swings in a local community playground.
Spent 3 months in Haiti at a mission in Port au Prince. (Watched Baby Doc depart in two heavily loaded planes. Stitched up loads of people in the ensuing revolution/rebellion.
Now I am a Rotarian. Our rules ( international) are that we do not support any business. Has to be a charity, be it a school, a clinic, paying for a new well in some godforgotten country.
Paint the swings in a local community playground.
Look, it's simple.
It's part time work for full time accommodation, food and transport.
It's not illegal immigrants, it's not slave labour, it's not a rip off, it's not someone oppressing someone else, it's not a charity.
It's a simple voluntary opportunity to spend a few months on a beautiful site, with a lovely ethos, in a beautiful bit of the world.
Good on any of those who volunteer, and pay their own way, to do charitable good works, but that's a whole other conversation.
M
It's part time work for full time accommodation, food and transport.
It's not illegal immigrants, it's not slave labour, it's not a rip off, it's not someone oppressing someone else, it's not a charity.
It's a simple voluntary opportunity to spend a few months on a beautiful site, with a lovely ethos, in a beautiful bit of the world.
Good on any of those who volunteer, and pay their own way, to do charitable good works, but that's a whole other conversation.
M
There is more than 3 young persons living in that neck of the woods on benefits, there is, by the sound of it, at least two 25 hour slots open, and one tight wad owner.
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