Veggies get a raw deal

[Robson Valley]

Here, the bison herd has 2 square miles of pasture and forest to mess around in. Personally, hardly what I'd call "farmed."
All the trees are 15 years older and bigger than when I bought this house but I used to be able to see the ranch tree line from my kitchen window.
They are also about the meanest ********, short of a Cape Buffalo, on the planet.
Go into the paddock. The bison want to get up close to you and meet you and greet you and stomp the snot out of you, just for fun.
A 2 yr old weighs about 1,000kg for a big one.

Those food killer guides are BS of the highest order. Millions of years and my teeth and my gut and my metabolism define me as an omnivore.
Plain and simple. It's a fact! The news is just in! Eating food will eventually kill you. Not eating food and you die sooner.
Janne, you're a human guinea pig? You eat GP? They're OK. So is rattlesnake.

Personally, I am a bird hunter. All my life. I am damn good at it. If it flies, it dies.
Geese, ducks, grouse, ptarmigan, wild turkeys. I could eat those for a lifetime.

 

[santaman2000]

Here, the bison herd has 2 square miles of pasture and forest to mess around in. Personally, hardly what I'd call "farmed."......

........They are also about the meanest ********, short of a Cape Buffalo, on the planet.
Go into the paddock. The bison want to get up close to you and meet you and greet you and stomp the snot out of you, just for fun.
A 2 yr old weighs about 1,000kg for a big one.



.........Personally, I am a bird hunter. All my life. I am damn good at it. If it flies, it dies.
Geese, ducks, grouse, ptarmigan, wild turkeys. I could eat those for a lifetime.

Sounds about right for the buffalo farms here too. One or two square miles of pasture instead of the hundreds of miles of open range a true wild buffalo would have. That and the hay they're fed through the winter. Not quite farmed like black Angus or Herefords, but closer to that than to true wild buffalo.

I'm a bird hunter at heart too (that's what my family loved the most for at least two generations before me) I also love duck hunting and turkey hunting as well as dove hunting; but those aren't properly what you'd call "bird hunting." That phrase is reserved solely for quail hunting (or grouse if we had them) the only creatures on earth worthy of putting the bird dogs out for.

 

[Robson Valley]

I suffered from SAS (Shotgun Aquisition Syndrome). Maybe a dozen, that's OK, I can handle it.
Sold them all off except for a couple of Russians, a o/u 12 and a sweet s/s 20.
I regret selling the Brazilian Boito 12 coach gun.

We have 3 species of grouse, depending on altitude, and 3 species of ptarmigan up top.
This is a minor flyway for Canada (Lesser) geese and all kinds of ducky things.
Used to bang them with a DU Benelli Nova 3.5" x 12.
My Gf shoots a Ruger RL12 and has a Stoeger 3.5" x 12 for migratories.

Best of all = tonight was wine braised elk roast with potato/yam/carrot/parsnip.
I regret not using more parsnip. Dang but those things go together.

-25C and dropping. Gotta plug in the Burb.

 

[Toddy]

Janne ? Food Historians are fun people they really are. Full of masses of interesting bits and pieces of knowledge and such a wide scope too.
I think the scurvy thing really only becomes an issue when folks no longer forage but rely solely on farmed foods.
Even now, in mid December and nearly at the Winter Solstice, I'm gathering fresh bittercress daily to munch (I like it, it's good for me) and there's still a range of fruits and berries around, even if dried and withered a bit. There's always kale, and the seaweeds too.
You are very right about the fat, though the Med area has the wealth that is olive oil and that rather fills in very well.

M

 

[Robson Valley]

Biochemically, scurvy is a Vitamin C deficiency. Dietary diversity is essential, as are some essential amino acids normally derived from meats.
Some people can make up for this inadequate diet with great diversity, others suffer.
I take the easy way out and eat most everything.

 

[Janne]

The only thing I dislike with Vegetarians is that they expect to be given vegetarian food when invited for a meal but will not give you a meat containg meal when they invite you ( assuming you are an omnivore).

( we do not know any Vegans)

Same with the different religious people.

As a result we never invite anybody with a non medical dietary peccadillo.

 

[Robson Valley]

I got into the habit to ask: "do you have any food allergies that I need to know about?"
I got some honest answers and also thanks for asking.

Others offer dead freakin' silence when I ask. I say : "Hello? (like is the line connection broken?)
I'm done here. End of story, end of issue. If you can't eat like a human with 6,000,000 years of experience
then PO, PDQ.
We enjoy the same vegetable jokes as anyone else. 6,000,000 years works for me.

 

[Toddy]

I find both the last two comments offensive.
Really, I do.

I do offer meat to guests who eat it, and I do so with courtesy.
My friends offer me the same courtesies with the foods they offer me.
Friendship and courteous hospitality and a care with preparation and presentation.
It's commonplace to do so for guests here; is it so different in your countries ?

As for 6,000,000 years of history….have you any idea of just how much changed modern humanity is from our ancestral stock ?
It's a huge difference, it's a massive change of systems and structure over time.

We could not survive on the diet of the proto humans. We don't have either their jaws/teeth or their guts. We choose to eat what we want, and we process raw until it's edible and digestible. There's a heck of a lot more to life than chasing down or scavanging dinner. Mostly we grow it these days.

Our modern longevity is testament to not only good genes and modern medicine but the healthy variety of our diets whether those are omniverous or vegan or any shade inbetween.

A vegetarian diet lacks nothing nutritionally, (as a vegetarian I believe it lacks nothing in taste or appeal either ) and according to most peer reviewed research, actually aids healthy long lives.

Noticeable isn't it ? Just how it's the meat eaters who are stirring on this thread when the topic was simply what would be a good idea to offer vegans/vegetarians, that could be cooked on a campfire.

M

 

[Wayne]

Robson. As a moderator on here and the original poster of this thread I think it's time you looked at some of your posts. Are they in the spirit of a family friendly forum dedicated to mutual support helping share knowledge and experience. Some are clearly designed to get a response.

Whilst im not a vegetarian myself I have no issues with those that choose to refrain from eating meat.

I do have a problem with people posting offensive comments especially at Christmas.

Good will to all all at this time should be our mantra whichever side of the pond you live on and whatever you decide to put on your plate for Christmas dinner.

We all share a psssion for the outdoors.

So please post a little more positively in the future. You have a wealth of experience in a wonderful part of the world.

 

[Janne]

With due respect, our digestive system has not changed much since the first H. Sapiens Sapiens. One of the few is the size of our jaws where the mix of the other Sapiens undergroups have made it shrink (compared to the purest Sapiens Sapiens group).

It is wonderful you cook and give meat to your friends. Respect for our customs goes both ways. If you ever visit this little Island I will cook the best Goulash you have eaten.
You will not believe me it is Vegetarian ( Vegan too!)

To go back on track, I recall a meat replacement that was quite common in the 60's in communist Czechoslovakia.
Most meat was gifted to Soviet Union together with the majority of all other production, and a kind of Proto Quorn was available.
Distinkt, delicious taste. I still like Quorn today, but it is too taste refined, with those added flavours.

Quorn/veg casseroles should be fine to cook over a fire. Quorn lasts for a few days without a fridge.

 

[stonyman]

I became a vegetarian because my body can't handle meat protein anymore, I have nothing against those that want to eat meat that's their choice and I respect that, unfortunately if anyone comes to dinner at my house they won't be fed meat because the smell of it cooking makes me physically and violently sick, it actually makes me throw up. So I am not one of those vegetarians that force my diet on anyone else I just can't cook meat for fear of being sick.

I also found the above posts regarding vegetarians highly offensive and very Trumpist

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[Janne]

Stonyman, mixing in Politics will not add anything to this thread.

When it comes to your reason, as a medical person I think that you possibly react to something the animals were fed. Some chemical like antibiotcs or such.
If you feel ill av the smell is a psycho somatic reaction

 

[stonyman]

It's not psychosomatic, what are your medical qualifications?

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[Toddy]

With due respect, our digestive system has not changed much since the first H. Sapiens Sapiens. One of the few is the size of our jaws where the mix of the other Sapiens undergroups have made it shrink (compared to the purest Sapiens Sapiens group).

Homo sapiens sapiens isn't 600,000 years old though. It's hundreds of thousands younger than that……and with dentition change it is believed there is bowel change too. Ours is pretty much unique among the great apes. (and somewhere I have an enormous listing of scholarly articles on gut morphology).
Thing is though, none of this really can be taken in isolation of the other 'developments' of our species, from walking upright to the development of the collar bones/shoulder joint to the thumb and hand articulation, and importantly the brain that plans and conceives and creates using all those.
Humanity is the single most environmental changing creature on the planet. We change things to create conditions that allow us to easily thrive. To grow choice foods for instance.
It's my choice not to eat meat. That's pretty much it really.

I do agree with stonyman. I cooked my husbands turkey breast roast today so that the rest of us can eat dinner tomorrow without feeling squick. Smell of cooking meat is a total I work around it for guests.

M

 

[Janne]

It's not psychosomatic, what are your medical qualifications?

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MD as a base, after that qualified as a Dental Surgeon. 8 years Uni, 2 years immediate post grad in Oral Surgery and Orthodontics.
Done 6 months training at the Brånemark Institute in Göteborg ( by the inventor of Titanium implants) plus various in depth Uni based training in various Medical specialities, mainly emergency mecicine.
Plus to keep my Medical license I do 40 hours courses a year in various medical specialities. To keep my Dental License I do 20 hours a year.
I do them at the Baptist Hospital in Miami.

But fir a living, I work as a very simple dentist (that also does Ortho and fairly advanced surgery on my patients).
Drill, fill and bill!
Live is easier that way. 9-5, Mo - Fri.

What diagnosis did they give you? Food allergy in general?

 

[slowworm]

Without wishing to take the thread off course ( ), if you grow your own vegetables you should have a better range of things to choose from Wayne. Over the years we've grown some very good squashes for example that are almost meals on their own. Easy to cook on a fire (they're small so cut in half, scoop out the seeds, wrap in a little foil and then roast in ashes) they can taste fairly sweet and nutty. I also like growing perennial kales in our woodland as they can produce flowering tips for months on end that are great either grilled or added to stews.

 

[Janne]

Homo sapiens sapiens isn't 600,000 years old though. It's hundreds of thousands younger than that……and with dentition change it is believed there is bowel change too. Ours is pretty much unique among the great apes. (and somewhere I have an enormous listing of scholarly articles on gut morphology).
Thing is though, none of this really can be taken in isolation of the other 'developments' of our species, from walking upright to the development of the collar bones/shoulder joint to the thumb and hand articulation, and importantly the brain that plans and conceives and creates using all those.
Humanity is the single most environmental changing creature on the planet. We change things to create conditions that allow us to easily thrive. To grow choice foods for instance.
It's my choice not to eat meat. That's pretty much it really.

I do agree with stonyman. I cooked my husbands turkey breast roast today so that the rest of us can eat dinner tomorrow without feeling squick. Smell of cooking meat is a total I work around it for guests.

M

The scarse remains of food on Neanderthal and S. Sapiens teeth show they pretty much ate what we would if we only had local food. Which indicates no anatomical difference from today. Of course there must be a difference in the microbiological flora, but we have that even today amongst the different people worldwide.

Feeling ill from smelling meat is not a medical problem. It is psychosomatic. .
I am fine smelling and seeing human blood, seeing, smelling and working on human corpses, which most people are not.
( I sometimes have to do a bit of simple Forensic Dentistry, a couple of years last time though)

As I wrote earlier, we are incredibly lucky we can all make lifestyle choices.
But nobody should condemn or belittle somebodys choice, be it choice of food or political leader.

 

[Janne]

Without wishing to take the thread off course ( ), if you grow your own vegetables you should have a better range of things to choose from Wayne. Over the years we've grown some very good squashes for example that are almost meals on their own. Easy to cook on a fire (they're small so cut in half, scoop out the seeds, wrap in a little foil and then roast in ashes) they can taste fairly sweet and nutty. I also like growing perennial kales in our woodland as they can produce flowering tips for months on end that are great either grilled or added to stews.

I used to grow Marrows back in UK. When I was burning twigs and branches in the Autumn, I used to bake them in the ashes. I just cut off the bottom tip, then buried them with that end facing up.
Gets a lovely taste, specially close to the skin where it is a little bit burned.

 

[Robson Valley]

My summer preoccupation is growing grapes. I start and sell new vines as well. Everybody should have a couple of grape vines.
Much to my delight, I can barter grapes in the autumn for all sorts of fresh garden produce.

No harm in spending a warm October afternoon picking grapes with our snow-capped mountains all around the village.

 

[Toddy]

The stench of cooking meat is as repulsive to me and most other vegetarians I know as the smell of the Dorian fruit is to those who don't eat it.
That's not psychosomatic, that's a simple yuck factor.
Vomit does it to some folks, and I have friends who genuinely think of cheese as vomit and cannot eat it either.

Nowt so queer as folk

As to the dentition, well, we reckon at least 90% accuracy of telling if a tooth is HSS or HSN…and that is peer reviewed, and now with DNA analysis backing up the results to confirm.
Again, many scolarly articles as well as the verbatim reports from specialists.

We can also tell with a fair degree of accuracy re Medieval diet vs modern diet just by the jaw and dentition. Jaws are pretty robust really; we have a huge number of them in the archaeological record, and those of who work with them get pretty good at recognising the differences in them.

Now the wisdom teeth (vestigial third molars) often don't erupt, and in some human populations the agenesis is nearing 100%.
It's a genetic change of modern HSS.

M