Veggies get a raw deal

[Janne]

The new tech to analyze traces of food trapped in tartar is pretty amazing. Of course, we have been able to analize the dentine layers to determine locality and food intake for a few years now.

I have always been a high veg, low meat eater. Comes from what my mum cooked. Ww2 and an unhealthy dose of communism tought her to be frugal.

 

[Robson Valley]

It's been a while but the archaeologists are getting better at using "phytoliths," microscopic plant particles picked out of what are likely to be food processing stones.
The real lag has been the painstaking tedium of building a reference catalog for comparative purposes. Leaf surface stomatal cell patterns, xylem cell characters, pollen architecture.
There's no money to support that kind of catalog contribution. I did some, decades ago, samples from a purported mammoth BBQ in fact.
My task was to identify the firewood(s). Conifer species now no longer found within 500 miles of that fire.

What really intrigues me even now are the repeated discoveries of paleo kitchen gardens = they are all over the place! Many in the PacNW are still in use.

 

[Janne]

I wish all the Omnivores, Vegetarians and Vegans a lovely Christmas, with plenty tasty food and drink, and a lovely time spent with your nearest and dearest!

 

[HelenG]

I love an easy version of a Mexican tostada. One plain tortilla wrap in a dry frying pan. Cover in salsa or chopped tomatoes. Add a layer of grated cheese or a few scattered small chunks of cheese. Spread a second tortilla with guacamole or mashed avocado. Place the avocado tortilla on top of the tomato / cheese and squash down all over. Once the bottom tortilla is browned and crisp, flip it over (or slide into a plate to help flip it) and press down again. Cook until the bottom is crisp & brown. Slice and eat like pizza - delicious crispness on the outside, gooey goodness on the inside.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Nice65]

I love an easy version of a Mexican tostada. One plain tortilla wrap in a dry frying pan. Cover in salsa or chopped tomatoes. Add a layer of grated cheese or a few scattered small chunks of cheese. Spread a second tortilla with guacamole or mashed avocado. Place the avocado tortilla on top of the tomato / cheese and squash down all over. Once the bottom tortilla is browned and crisp, flip it over (or slide into a plate to help flip it) and press down again. Cook until the bottom is crisp & brown. Slice and eat like pizza - delicious crispness on the outside, gooey goodness on the inside.

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I love Quesadillas. One of our summer favourites. Chopped spring onion, chilli, red pepper, grated red cheddar, lots of fresh coriander. Cook in the same way and serve with a bowl of guacamole and sour cream to spoon on. Just yummy.

They are a pain to flip though

 

[Robson Valley]

Need a bigger spatula is all. My kids will stand at the stove and make quesadilla as long as the old man supplies the fixings!
What do you prefer? Flour or corn? Personally, I'll make soft or hard corn tortillas. Flour belongs in bread.

 

[Toddy]

Trying to get hold of mesa harina here isn't easy, and it's expensive too. Trying to get hold of non wheat flour tortillas is an exercise in frustration. I just make my own.
I like tortillas; they're good food

M

 

[santaman2000]

Corn tortillas for me. Partly because I prefer the taste and partly because the Daughter's celiac.

 

[MilkTheFrog]

After reading through this entire thread, I'm amazed to find not a single mention of the go-to campfire staple... kidney beans! Probably the cheapest source of protein you can get, often end up cooking them with some rice at the end of a day's hike/cycle to give you pretty much everything you need. For something a bit more interesting, they make a great base for a bunch of different burger recipes. Probably the most famous is the 10p carrot, cumin and kidney bean recipe which is something of a staple, but they can be a bit fragile when formed, if taking them outdoors I'd probably just bag the mix and form it in a pan. There's a bunch of spicy recipes, and lidl sell some frozen ones which are 4 for £1 I believe. Can make them with leek, onion and peanut butter too, or cashew/seasame seed/pumpkin seed butter if you're around people with an allergy.

For Christmas I had very interesting beetroot and spinach burger/bake thing with goats cheese from Sainsbury's, would be interested in making something like that. Think that would work well with feta too. Basically, you can mash a lot of random stuff together and have it end up tasting amazing.

As for the more philosophical side of things, I'm not vegetarian because I think it's wrong to eat meat. I think we're very much overdependent on it, and it's lost the degree of respect that it once had. I'd prefer to see it used as more of an occasional treat, from a sustainable local source or even hunted yourself - people are often too far removed from what is really a horrific mass slaughter operation, and most people would not be okay with their level of meat consumption if they had to face the reality of that and associate it with the end product. I think humanity would be better served by more intelligent and more efficient use of arable land - you fundamentally lose at least 90% of the energy in a food source when you move up a trophic level, I think we'd be better served by having greater crop variation and more research into new sources of food which are better suited to different environments around the world - research Kenya seems to be the centre of right now. Especially if we're going to need more plant matter for biofuel and for hydrocarbon production (plastics, drugs etc.) as oil becomes less viable. And I think the global ecosystem would be better off without such a huge cattle industry contributing to greenhouse gas emissions.

 

[Janne]

People forget that to get milk, the cow/sheep/goat had to give birth.
This offspring needs to be eaten, or the world would be swamped in these animals.
So technically, a vegetarian can be a vegetarian only because some people eat meat.
But absolutely, humans eat much to much meat. Not only bad for environment, but themselves.

 

[Toddy]

Yeah, no getting away from it either…and cheesley /vegan cheese is very much an acquired taste.
I quite like some of them, and am happy enough eating them, but it's not 'cheese', iimmc.
I don't miss milk or cream but good rich red Scottish cheddar's hard to beat

The vegan cream cheeses are very tasty, and happily fill the niche of the soft cheeses, and I've made almond milk (Medieval recipe ) for nearly forty years now. I'm fair skinned, with green eyes and freckles, and enough red through my hair that it was a genuine possibility that my kids might turn out red-haired, but I can't digest milk. My Grandmother was the same, yet the rest of the family is fine with the stuff.
Funny thing genetics, aren't they ?

M

 

[santaman2000]

Yeah, no getting away from it either…and cheesley /vegan cheese is very much an acquired taste.
I quite like some of them, and am happy enough eating them, but it's not 'cheese', iimmc.
I don't miss milk or cream but good rich red Scottish cheddar's hard to beat

The vegan cream cheeses are very tasty, and happily fill the niche of the soft cheeses, and I've made almond milk (Medieval recipe ) for nearly forty years now. I'm fair skinned, with green eyes and freckles, and enough red through my hair that it was a genuine possibility that my kids might turn out red-haired, but I can't digest milk. My Grandmother was the same, yet the rest of the family is fine with the stuff.
Funny thing genetics, aren't they ?

M

Do you have trouble with all milk? I know some people have an easier time digesting goat's milk.

 

[Janne]

I am severely Lactose intolerant myself, and it got worse when I developed my intestinal problems about 6 or 7 years ago.
Get the usual symptoms. Should not eat milk based cheese, but as I love them I just take the "punishment". I love coffee, and to neutralize the acidity I put a bit of Lactos free milk in.
Should not drink coffee of course either because of the old guts.
I do not like the Vegan "cheeses". Weird taste, not sure about the chemistry behind it.

 

[Robson Valley]

The biggest issue is lactose-intolerance. This is a common characteristic of adult mammals.
Anthropologists and archaeologists somehow claim that lactose-tolerance is a relatively recent mutation in humans,
maybe some 40,000yr BP.

A couple of enzymes are needed. One gene codes for the lactose hydrolase which splits the lactose into the two simple sugars, glucose and galactose.
Then we need a second enzyme (isomerase) to twist the guts of galactose around to make it into glucose. Then, as 2x glucose, we're OK for metabolism.
If you can't make the enzymes then the lactose and/or galactose builds up to slightly toxic levels.

While it's not uncommon these days to consider lactose intolerance to be a "problem," it's really the other way around.
Lactose tolerance in adult human (mammals) is the odd thing.

 

[Janne]

I have one recommendation gor vegetarians and vegans:
When you want more flavour in soups and casseroles, there is a liquid flavouring called Liquid Seasoning made by Maggi. Knorr has a similar one.
They are vegetarian (vegan?). Gives the dish a fuller taste.

A lot of the flavour comes from a herb calked Lovage.
Grows incredibly well in UK.

 

[Toddy]

……………...

While it's not uncommon these days to consider lactose intolerance to be a "problem," it's really the other way around.
Lactose tolerance in adult human (mammals) is the odd thing.

That is such a good point; and human milk is actually very high in lactose (something like 7% iirc). I was breast fed, and I could manage to drink some milk until my early twenties, then it just made me really nauseous. Just as well I had my children when I was 21 and 22 really, I suppose.

Santaman2000, I can't drink cows, goats, buffalo, or ewes milk. I manage some softer cheese, but not many, or much of them, most just leave me really sick feeling….and full of wind

Janne, yes, I agree and 5 is really good too, as is home made mushroom sauce, or a mixture of smooth peanut butter and marmite

M

 

[Janne]

Yes, Marmite and the Aussie Vegemite are good as taste improvers.
I have been known to add a bit of MSG to my food. Just a pinch or two. It is a rice product, so should be harmless.

I get the runs from milk. Gas? 24/7.

I guess humans started drinking other species' mik when they domesticated cattle some 10 000 years ago. So quite recently. I guess hence the Lactose intolerance.
I have always wondered how many of the Massai people suffer from L. intolerance?

 

[Robson Valley]

Monosodium Glutamate is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, aka glutamate, one of the 20 common amino acids in protein synthesis.
As glutamate, it also happens to be an essential neurotransmitter at synaptic junctions in the the nervous system.
Any extra and the sensitivities of some people will just about kill them. Nasty ****e in my kitchen.

 

[Janne]

Monosodium Glutamate is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, aka glutamate, one of the 20 common amino acids in protein synthesis.
As glutamate, it also happens to be an essential neurotransmitter at synaptic junctions in the the nervous system.
Any extra and the sensitivities of some people will just about kill them. Nasty ****e in my kitchen.

Used sparingly it is fine!

 

[PDA1]

Monosodium Glutamate is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, aka glutamate, one of the 20 common amino acids in protein synthesis.
As glutamate, it also happens to be an essential neurotransmitter at synaptic junctions in the the nervous system.
Any extra and the sensitivities of some people will just about kill them. Nasty ****e in my kitchen.

So you will be cutting Soy sauce, fish sauce, worcester sauce, anchovies, tomato, mushrooms, broccoli, peas, long braised meats etc. from your diet? Because they all,(and many more) contain glutamates.