URGENT - Knife sharpening problems ....

[Mike Tolk.]

Hi all,

I'm looking for someone that lives in North Wales area-ish that is an expert at using Japanese water stones .....

I am going to Norway next week and have bought some Japanese water stones to sharpen my knives and I am failing miserably!

I have done the normal YouTube searches and watched Grand Master Mears doing his thing .... tried to imitate, but to no avail .... I have now stopped due to the ever decreasing time frame and the worry of doing some damage to the blade

So basically ..... I live in North Wales and wanted to know if an expert would be able to show me what I am doing wrong.... I will even pay to watch someone sharpen them for me this week!!! (That sounds weird!!)

Thanks, hope some gem of a person can help .....

Mike Tolk.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Mike,
knowledge of the type of knife you are trying to sharpen would be useful. Scandi grind knives hould be easy-ish as you just flatten the bevels on each side until they meet at a fine edge, if it is anything else, there might be more technique involved.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Mike Tolk.]

Hello Mr Trog,

Thanks for messaging back ...

The knife I need to sharpen is a Woodlore knife, which has a Scandinavian grind.

I think it’s just my technique ... I guess I am expecting miracles on the stones first outing.

That and panicking about the time frame before my trip …..

HHEELLPP!!

 

[Aragorn]

sorry can't help you with the sharpning, but welcome to the site anyway, where abouts are you and why the trip, sounds interesting.

 

[marshall4771]

Mick try posting this on British Blades, they have a good choice of tutorials and plenty of Welsh members

good look

Shaun

 

[Mike Tolk.]

Thank you both .... I shall post up a message on there tonight ...

Have been a member for a bit but tend to just read rather than post, unless it’s urgent and a matter of life and death ... like this post

The reason for the Norway trip .... I scoot over there a couple of times a year with my brother, a few friends and camp .... we have built up good relationships with the locals over the years, we fish (cod/salmon/trout and loads of other fish I don't know) cook over a raging camp fire, sleep in hammocks overhanging the fjord, stare up to the stars watching meteor showers (did happen once!) nice back to nature camping .....

We are also looking at the possibilities of taking people over there .... if it will happen I don't know ... we will see.

I'll post pictures when I get back



Anyway ... where was I .. oh yeh ...... HHEELLPPP

 

[spamel]

Be careful that you aren't destroying the bevels on the knife by just randomly picking an angle to hold the knife at. The bevel on a Woodlore is pretty substantial, so you shouldn't have any problems keeping the bevel flat on the stone. Sharpening a knife is all about maintaining the angle of the knife as you push it along the stone, thus removing metal across the face of the bevel and the two faces will meet at a very fine point. A neat way to do this without resorting to some high fangled contraption is to use a finger or thumb when you push the blade along the stone to keep the spine at a set height.

I hold my knife so that my thumb rests on the spine of the knife when pushing away from me. My thumb is obviously a lot thicker than my blades, so the thumb comes in to contact with the stone and the bevel is set correctly on the stone. I have worked at it over the years and it is great if I want to keep the angle exactly the same each stroke. For the other side, I hold the knife with the edge coming towards me and place my index finger on the spine. This achieves the same effect.

Also, try marker pen on the bevels. Coat the whole bevel with the pen and sharpen the knife a few strokes. You'll see what area you are sharpening by where the marker pen is removed.

My next suggestion is not meant to belittle you in any way, if you don't know how to sharpen a knife then you don't know. The only way to learn is to ask questions, get shown if possible and to try. it seems like you really want to learn, so i suggest you put the Woodlore down before you destroy the bevels on it and try to learn with a Mora. they are cheap as chips, have a scandi grind so pretty decent bevels for learning and come to razor sharp on a set of stones. I showed two blokes in Iraq to sharpen with stones and moras and they both achieved razor sharpness on other knives they sharpened by maintaining the angle of the bevel on the stone. It really is that simple.

Good luck!

 

[C_Claycomb]

Can't help with a demo, but have you had a chance to look at any of the tutorials posted in the edged tools section here?

http://www.outdoors-magazine.com/spip.php?page=article&id_article=91
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10718
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12348
http://forums.outdoors-magazine.com/viewtopic.php?t=679

Are you going to be packing the waterstones with you to Norway? If you do a lot of carving work you will have to resharpen while you are out there.

I don't know what Alan Wood Woodlore knives are going for these days, probably not the mad prices of last year, but if you haven't yet acquired the skill to sharpen the knife, are you certain that you want to be taking such a valuable tool into the bush to begin with? Have you been taught how to use the knife correctly and safely, or are you going to get instruction once you are out there?

 

[Mike Tolk.]

Don't get me wrong .... I have used other methods to sharpen my knives; however I thought that with the Japanese water stones, I could get a cleaner, razor sharp edge to the blade.

I have used knives for quite a while on my numerous trips to Norway and other countries, correctly and safely.

A very good way to learn (in my eyes) is to witness a new way of doing something first hand and to see the new method being performed face to face.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Right. That is not always the case with folk asking advice

I use DMT diamond hones when in the field, Japanese waterstones at home, and ceramic sticks, diamond sticks or waterstones in the kitchen and I don't reckon that there is really all that much difference in how you use any of them. You are aiming for the same result, two surfaces meeting at a clean edge.

The waterstones do cut nice and quick (and fairly clean) when compared to my oil stones but I don't do anything different when using them than on any other bench stone.

On a scandi bevel you just lay the bevel on the stone, work it over the surface, you can scrub it in either direction to begin with, do the other side till you have a burr along the edge, then take a few slicing passes into the edge, either going to a finer stone and/or fractionally increasing the angle so that you just barely take off the burr. Or you can strop the edge as normal.

The only thing to be aware of is that waterstones will dish over time and need periodic flattening. Don't bother with the ceramic flattening stone from Axminster, it is rubbish , just use 120-240 grit paper stuck to a sheet of glass.

Oh, and a word of warning. Waterstones cut cool. If you use your finger or thumb as a guide you could end up taking off a fair bit of skin before you notice what you are doing...you probably will only do it once though! (don't ask how I found out!)

You haven't mentioned what grit stones you have. I have found that my 1000 grit is pretty good for maintaining an edge, but on a scandi it is slow to re-establish an edge that has got properly dull. The red DMT hone is about 600 grit, so fairly coarse compared to the water stones. I have a 6000 grit stone which I use in conjunction with a Nagura stone, but that is reserved for polishing chisels and planes, I have found no real reason to use it on knives when stropping with Autosol, Starkie paste, or Tormex compound is so effective and less fuss. It is all but pointless trying to sharpen with it if the blade isn't already sharp.

Your trip sounds like a lot of fun. Best of luck!

 

[wildrover]

Good advice from Chris there.
I'd also echo what spam said about getting a cheap mora(£7-8) and practicing with that.
The bevels are similar. I already had one and that is what I did.
I didn't want to wreck my Allan Blade Bushcrafter (you can't get them any moreuppy_dog ) and was paranoid about sharpening it.
An hour or so with the Mora and the stones and I could put a superb edge on it.
I also used the Tutorial on the Bushcraft Survival DVD.
Honestly it was very straight forward. Just concentrate on the forward stroke of your hand and get a feel for how the blade is moving over the stone

Best of luck and don't panic or give up.