UK insureres not interested!

[jakunen]

OK,
after someone started a thing in one of the other threads about insurnce I've spent two weeks researching and here's the results:

1) The only company that really covers campers is Dogtag. So long as you are abraod, not camping in the UK. In the UK you are only covered for 3 nights in a hotel...
2) NO compnay is prepared to actually consider a giving bushcrafters any form of liability insurance. If someone else burns the wood down, Dogtag will cover you ABROAD to the tune of £1M, but if the landowner sues you for any damage - you're screwed!

Any of our US brethren know of any more enlightened companies in the US?
I'm sure there must be with the number of comapanies out there and the (possibly wrong) image that the US has for sueing anybody for anything (no offence meant, TV and newspapers distort the fabric of reality beyond breaking point!).

Totally depressed at the current state of affairs and the unwillingness of any UK company being prepared to put it's 'uncaring' money where its ''caring' mouth is...

 

[Ed]

Maybe you want to ask some of the instructors and teachers on here how they get insurance, or were you talking about personal insurance?
We have our land and classrooms insured (public liability etc etc) which covers everything we need, but thats done through the local education authoratory, and they cover me as a 'teacher/tutor'


Ed

 

[jakunen]

Personal liability.

A few people were saying that they can't get permission to use a landowner's land for practicing bushcraft unless they have cover in case they damage crops/burn the wood down.
Whilst we all obviously hope we'll never need anything like that, I was hoping to find something that will cover us when we're not out with the likes of you, Gary, Feathers etc.
I know from personal experience that personal kit is normally covered for damage/theft/loss in your hime and contents policy, but bearing in mind the obstrepolous attitude of some landowners, getting some sort of personal liablity cover seems the only way to get legal access to ideal sites that are not common camping areas.

 

[Squidders]

Totally depressed at the current state of affairs and the unwillingness of any UK company being prepared to put it's 'uncaring' money where its ''caring' mouth is...

I found this site (http://www.uk-insurance-pages.co.uk/insurance/motorhomeinsurance.html) that has listed specifically insurance for motorhomes.

 

[Wayne]

I have also tried invian to contact several insurerd loooking for public liability insurance and have had no joy. Seems the market maybe too small or the risk is preceived as too high. I would like to approach more land owners to gain access to land. having insurance makes it more likely the dor will be opened.

 

[Jamie]

I dont know if these 2 will be of any help:

http://www.activesure.co.uk/default.asp?RefID=6000
http://www.eventsinsurance.co.uk/


Having been in a very long lost in time an incarnation of a Lloyds broker (all for 6 months - it was sooooooo dull!!) the best recommendation is to try and find a broker who offsets risk in the Lloyds market. The high street insurers are more bound by pigeon holing everyone and are not really able to 'think out of the box' as they have to tick this, tick that etc. A lloyds underwriter is able to take each issue on merit and decide if it is worth the risk rather than saying that you dont come under a particular heading, some will create the heading for you!

I still have a couple of contacts in the market, so if you PM me what you are actually looking for in terms of overall coverage (and please be specific) I can fir them off an email to see what their thoughts are (if any!).

 

[Ed]

so if you PM me what you are actually looking for in terms of overall coverage (and please be specific) I can fir them off an email to see what their thoughts are (if any!).

We could disscuss the ideas of what we coverage need in a general bushcraft policy first, most of us probably want the same sort of thing don't you think.....??

Jamie, I'tll probably also save you and your contacts 700 odd pm's and emails from us aswell.... Jamie your a star ;-)


Ed

 

[Jamie]

Well I cant guarantee anything but will certainly have a go! You know what I am like mate!


Perhaps if people put down their wish list here and we can then compile it and go from there.............

 

[Great Pebble]

In a sense we have ourselves (as in the general population) to blame for this, we've become litigious to a ridiculous degree, you only have to watch daytime TV and pick up on all those "claim for free" ads.

I may have mentioned before (I'd be surprised if I didn't) that another of my hobbies is the restoration of old military vehicles, it's now just about impossible for individuals or groups to get 3rd party cover for any kind of public display of this sort. The only way it can be done is through a larger body who have general 3rd party cover. A council for example - Who may let you display at a motor museum in their care, or a large commercial concern. The level of cover required is so astronomical, to cover any potential claim that could be made that underwriters will either plain refuse to look at you or charge premiums so exorbitant that it's impossible to meet them.

And much as I would like to blame the insurance companies, I spent an "interesting" few minutes listening to two "spides" (NI speak for chavs) debating which of them was going to "accidently catch" his fingers in the door of a Saracen earlier this year. They were fighting over whose "turn" it was to get the injury. Up against folk like that i doubt I'd want to offer cover for anything "unusual" either.

 

[Wayne]

Hi all.

The sort of insurance cover I am looking for would cover accidental injury to myself and others. It would be nice to be covered if i smack myself in the shin with my axe or drop a branch on someones head. Third party cover generally to the tune of say a million to cover burning a farmers field or coppice. I'm not sure what other cover I really need. I may take the odd non fee paying student with me. Not sure if that needs a different cover.

You level headed business types will know more about it than poor little me.

 

[bushbasher]

Has anyone tried the British Mountaineering Society. Expensive, but their policies seem to cover most activities.

Could be worth try.

 

[jamesdevine]

You beat me to it Bushbasher. I was also say the scouts they may not cover individuals but someone might be able to find what the policy covers and does the covering and work form there.

Doing as group looking for the same cover (all do indiviually insured) might be better then everyone ask going a individuals.

Just my thoughts.
James

 

[Jamie]

Well, perhaps if we come up with a comprehensive list of risks and the coverage that we require/need to cover as many eventualities as possible then I can put this forward to my contacts in the Lloyds market and see if they can get a standardised coverage based on xx amount of people signing up to it.......

 

[bothyman]

Hi all.

The sort of insurance cover I am looking for would cover accidental injury to myself and others. It would be nice to be covered if i smack myself in the shin with my axe or drop a branch on someones head.

I can remember the days when you put that sort of thing down to experience,
maybe you would be better off saying out of the woods.
That is one of the reasons no one can get insurance everybody seems to be out to blame someone else for their own stupidity or trying to get compensation out of others who they think should take the blame, instead of putting it down to experience and learning from it.

 

[Womble]

Ouch. Is that meant to sound so confrontational? I'm not sure Wayne deserved that.

 

[Gary]

Bothyman :biggthump

 

[SquirrelBoy]

I think having cover for yourself might be a bit difficult to get but its a great idea to have third party cover. The only thing close to `self insurence` is `life insurence` and I dont want to test that policy out ):

I used to fly model air planes and we HAVE to have third party insurence. I think it was to the tune of 1 million. This was arranged by the BMFA (british model flying association) and is required to fly in public but allowed places.

Having some proper insurence would I think, get us more recognised as a proper `hobby` and perhaps allowed to use more sites ! Scout sites etc?!

 

[Great Pebble]

Dunno that I want to be recognised as part of a "proper hobby" with access to whatever.
I don't want forest rangers asking me if my insurance is in order before they'll let me walk in woods.

Personally I find the lack of organisations, insurance and the rest one of the attractions to getting into the trees.

 

[bothyman]

Ouch. Is that meant to sound so confrontational? I'm not sure Wayne deserved that.

No it wasn't, apologies if it was taken that way.

Its just the simple fact you should be responsible for your own actions.

If you are stood under a tree and someone drops a branch on your head , why did you stand there in the first place :?:

If you hit yourself with an axe do you sue the axe maker because he made the axe too sharp :roll:

If some dozey sod hurts you through his actions should you have been with him, maybe you should have left earlier when you realised how dozey he was

If you get poked in the eye with a stick, do you blame the person who owns the wood, then wonder why they won't let you play there anymore??

:roll:

You could go on forever blaming everyone else for your misfortunes



:wave:

 

[jamesdevine]

Very interesting thought this. As bushcrafter's should we really need to be insurance in case we burn down someones wood. There is enough info in all the books, from the TV and from here on how to do it safely if can't or you arent confident in your ability then don't do it. Therefore why should you require insurance.

I don't have access to an area of woodland but in all my enquires so far no has asked me for insurance even here in country not far behind the US in claims rightly or wrongly.

My thoughts
James