Two Britons die on the Hardangervidda

[dommyracer]

Just saw this on the BBC website, about 2 British Cross Country skiers who have died on the Hardangervidda, gladly a third man survived.

I hope we'll find out some more about this and what happened, hopefully there can be some lessons learnt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6440353.stm

Now, this also got me to thinking (and part of the reason I posted) was I was wondering if one of our members local to this area would know how many local people get into trouble up there - its a notoriously harsh environment.....

 

[BushTucker]

OMG, That sounds horrific

 

[Greg]

Its tragic hearing news like this

I remember when 2 lads from the Parachute Regiment froze to death in Scotland, Winter 1993 I believe, they were found dead after being caught out in bad weather whilst climbing!

Also in winter 93 or 94 a troop of squaddies in Norway were killed by an avalanche whilst on exercise.

Its terrible news, the thing is could this recent tragedy have been prevented or was it just one of those times when luck just runs out??

 

[bushtank]

why didnt the guys go back with the norwegian skiers such a shame may they R.I.P and good luck to the survivor well done red cross :You_Rock_

 

[Tor helge]

The norwegian skiers didn`t go back. They went to the cabin at Kjeldebu that they was supposed to, but then they were stuck. Too bad weather to continue. The Scots couldn`t keep up with their speed and they decided to split up.
The news told that the Scots were not equiped to spend the night out.
This was said on TV news yesterday.

Tor

 

[Tengu]

That sounds bad.

(my friend died in the Caingorms in the winter about 15 years back.)

 

[torjusg]

Saw on the news today that they had been warned that bad weather was to come prior to venturing out. They decided not to follow the warning.

My speculation: They probably had only a few days set off to do this on, so they found that it was now or never.

It is better to add in some extra slack in case unforseen things happen.

 

[dommyracer]

Some interesting quotes on the BBC new report:-

Matt Robinson, from Yorkshire, who met the party while on the same trek, said he turned back because of the weather.

He said: "The weather was that bad you could not map read as such.

"We were following these marked trails. They are all marked out with sticks."

Mr Robinson said the three men were struggling on slowly and one of them was wearing the wrong kind of skis. He said the man had the biggest rucksack he had ever seen.

They had probably only completed 5km of their 20km trek when Mr Robinson saw them on his way back.

"It did not seem like they contemplated turning round to be honest," Mr Robinson said.

I wonder what was in the rucksack? I hope it wasn't some stuff that could have helped them...

 

[Marts]

Terribly sad. It seems the family were personal friends of a BB member too. Somehow that makes the tragedy feel even closer to home.

 

[tedw]

Very sad, that could have been any of us who seek adventure in the outdoors. Condolences to family and friends. Bad things happen to the best prepared people, and, let's be honest, facing up to the risks and challenges is part of the reason to be out there.

From this morning's paper, it seems that they were not as well-equipped as they might have been for the weather and conditions - insufficient warm clothing for an emergency bivvy, no shovels etc. But even the 2 Norwegians who made it to the cabin suffered in the cold, so it must have been bad.

These were ex-Army guys, no fools. Maybe they pressed on too hard, maybe they weren't as well-equipped as they should have been, maybe they underestimated the conditions, maybe they made a bad choice under pressure at a bad time - which of us has not done the same at some time, but lived to tell the tale. We should just try and learn the lessons that these sort of incidents teach.

 

[dommyracer]

We should just try and learn the lessons that these sort of incidents teach.

Exactly, I hope lessons will be learned from this, and similarly from the incident on Dartmoor last week.

 

[brancho]

Saw on the news today that they had been warned that bad weather was to come prior to venturing out. They decided not to follow the warning.

My speculation: They probably had only a few days set off to do this on, so they found that it was now or never.

It is better to add in some extra slack in case unforseen things happen.

There are times when we should decline the challenge.
We should consider cancelling a trip rather than take high risks. I as a Scout Leader have not had to cancel an event yet but have come home early and would cancel completely if felt the risk was too high.
Unfortunately these poor soles must have thought they could cope.

 

[Grey Owl]

Over the weekend I was involved in leading a 4-dayski tour in the Rocky Mountains of Canada for a group of university age students. Upon our return I shared this story with them as an example of how quickly conditions can change and the impact of our decisions.

While we were travelling our avalanche conditions shifted 4 levels, from Low to High. Anticipated highs of 8-11C, deteriorated to -10C with winds gusting to 60km/h and we saw numerous avalanches occur above or near our travel route. Mountain travel is hazardous and prone to rapid changes and it is the lucky and observant that are able to survive, or make the correct decisions.

It is a shame that these individuals gave their lives for their recreation. We should be hesitant to judge these people on the kit that they may have been carrying. Many times I have seen well-equipped and trained students, having pushed themselves to exhaustion, give up on caring for themselves. Simply because the labour involved to setup shelter, melt snow or cook food, seems too great.

Winter climates are a cruel mistress. We love her charms and her beauty, she entices us to come close to the edge and all of us sometimes forget how close the razor of survival falls in the winter. More important than the kit we carry or the decision to turn around, is the importance of maintaining a reserve of energy that will enable us to create camp, to make clear decisions, or even to walk home before things get out of control.

These sound to be good and cared for people and I count it a privilege to have been engaged in a similar activity over the same weekend as these individuals. And I will carry their story with me as evidence of the necessity of pre-planning, following recommendations of more experienced people and maintenance of an energy reserve for self-care.

 

[Mikey P]

Maybe they should have had a cup of tea?

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=9951

We'll never know. Tragic.

 

[falling rain]

Heartfelt sympathies to the families.

 

[nobby]

Very interesting that nobody has mentioned the hospital bed interview with the survivor an ex RSM TA.
He stated, quite categorically, that they were properly equipped and that they knew the weather conditions were changing but made a reasoned judgement, based on experience, about their best action.
They chose and the elements got them anyway.
Given that the man lost his son, and a close friend, also ex TA, there doesn't seem much reason to doubt him.
Things happen and people sometimes die no matter how well prepared. To me, it illustrates that however well prepared there is always an element of risk.

 

[Mikey P]

Things happen and people sometimes die no matter how well prepared. To me, it illustrates that however well prepared there is always an element of risk.

Sobering but true. But, if there was no risk, would we learn anything and would we get anything out of it?

 

[torjusg]

To be very, very frank with you, I have doubts about that they were as well prepared as he states them to be. It isn't true that there are conditions you just can't survive (except lava and similar very extreme stuff).

If they had a shovel and dug themselves a cave and had appropriate clothing etc. chances are they would still be alive.

Not trying to be distasteful here, but people want to justify their actions after such an event, to themselves and others. It is neccesary in order to keep your sanity. The conclusions can be wrong, they are self-theraputic, not survival tips.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Gentlemen, Please! All we can do at best is second guess these guys - we weren't there and we don't have all facts. People died here in tragic circumstances and the 19 year old was a close friend of a member of British Blades. Let's have a little respect for both the departed, the survivor and their friends and families in what must be very difficult times - let this highly speculative thread die.

 

[Zodiak]

Isn't this where the "Heros of Telemark" hid out from the Germans during WW2?

I seem to remember from the book that the locals fared much better than the Brits back then too.