learnings from a newby!

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Barney Rubble

Settler
Sep 16, 2013
553
283
Rochester, Kent
youtube.com
Hi all, thought I'd post up some thoughts having recently returned from a wet and muddy overnighter in some local woods in North Kent. Apologies for the lack of pictures, I didn't really plan to post anything up about the camp. This was my second wild camp and it's amazing what you learn when the conditions become a little more testing.  My first camp-out was in late September in nigh on perfect conditions; warm, dry and comfortable would be a fair summary.  My kit was basic, inexpensive and worked a treat. Over this weekend however it was still relatively mild (unusually so for late November) but having had quite a lot of rain recently the woods were of course wet and muddy and then the heavens opened shortly after bedding down on Saturday and the rain continued all day Sunday. No disrespect to forum members but I think I learnt more during this camp than I have over several months of reading the posts on this good forum. As is always the way, you need to get your hands dirty if you want to learn!


Lessons aside, the camp was great fun! I made one fundamental change to my kit from my first camp and that was the shelter. Originally I took a Polish Lavvu and IPK Groundsheet,  it was a good, spacious shelter but also very heavy and I was unsure of how waterproof it might be. So, recently I purchased a one man tent from everyone's favourite outdoor shop. It was the Hi-Gear Soloista tent (basically a re-branded Gelert Solo tent) and I bought it because it was only £20 and the reviews on it weren't too bad. Made from more modern waterproof materials and about a third of the weight of the lavvu/IPK combo, I felt quite happy with my purchase.

Leading up to the weekend the weather forecasts were all suggesting 100% chance of rain and with that in mind I packed an extra groundsheet to act as a footprint for the tent and also half of my lavvu. I pitched the lavvu half in a lean-to style using approx 5ft length of hazel as a centre pole and with the two ends of the lavvu raised off the ground by about 3ft and tied to a couple of trees - this worked pretty well as a rain shelter/admin area. I was quite pleased with the shelter as it kept me dry and enabled me to use a knot that I'd recently learnt - the Cawley hitch. The lavvu got well and truly soaked and while it didn't leak per se' the inside of the lavvu was sopping wet to the touch and then felt like it weighed about twice as much when I packed it away. The lesson learnt is that I'd quite like to get a reasonable sized tarp to use as admin/rain shelter over my tent. Indeed before coming on this camp I'd already wrote a letter to jolly St Nick asking for a tarp but figured a poncho or something similar would suffice, now I realise that you benefit quite a lot from the extra space when the weather goes bad. Happily the new tent worked well, pitched in less than ten mins and provided me with a comfortable sleeping space and also big enough to store my gear (in LK35 Rucksack). The only issue was that, despite having the air vents open, there was an awful lot of condensation built up inside the flysheet, so much so that the bottom end of my sleeping bag got a little bit damp on the outside from where the condensation dripped through the mesh of the inner tent. I put this down to the weather though because it was raining all night and it was also quite mild and that surely creates the perfect environment for condensation. Maybe next time I'll peg the flysheet down in a way that allows more air to circulate underneath as well as through the vents. 

It was interesting to note that I was camping with some other members of this parish and I was the only ground dweller. The thought of hammocking is quite appealing but I'm not yet convinced on the idea. I sleep comfortably on the ground and I also think that for the money that you'd spend on a decent hammock set-up I'd probably rather spend it on a good quality tent such as a Vango Banshee. I daren't say this viewpoint will evolve over time!

For cooking, we had a good campfire which cooked up some sausages. I also used a Swedish Army Trangia cookset. I'm very fond of this set as it is so simple and versatile. I did however have trouble with the burner on Sunday morning, for some reason it must have taken a good ten mins before it started to bloom. Would that be because the weather was a little chilly and damp? I did clean out all the jets as part of my prep for the camp. I must admit that I'm toying with the idea of swapping the army burner with a civilian trangia burner as I've read that they're more efficient? Also, as part of the whole cooking process, I often found myself looking round at where to put my brew kit and cup and all the paraphanalia that goes with the cook kit because the ground was muddy and horrible and you don't just want to let everything sit amongst the mud!

All in all, while the camp was enjoyable, I learnt that you need to be far more organised when camping in more inclement conditions. Be prepareed, make sure your kit is ready and find out about the weather and likely conditions of the campsite. Learn how to keep yourself clean and hygenic in wet and muddy conditions - I think I was caked in mud within ten minutes of arrival! Not a big deal but suffice to say I used a lot of wet wipes and sanitiser. It's important to allow lots of time in daylight hours to gather fuel for the fire and recognise that it needs more attention when burning wet wood. The final learning point from me....Your kit may enable a comfy camp in perfect conditions, but how does it work when things get a bit more challenging!

Sorry for the rambling, I thought it might interest some folk on here!

Mods: I put this in the kit section but recognise it might be better off elsewhere?
 

Quixoticgeek

Full Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,483
23
Europe
Hi all, thought I'd post up some thoughts having recently returned from a wet and muddy overnighter in some local woods in North Kent. Apologies for the lack of pictures, I didn't really plan to post anything up about the camp. This was my second wild camp and it's amazing what you learn when the conditions become a little more testing.  My first camp-out was in late September in nigh on perfect conditions; warm, dry and comfortable would be a fair summary.  My kit was basic, inexpensive and worked a treat. Over this weekend however it was still relatively mild (unusually so for late November) but having had quite a lot of rain recently the woods were of course wet and muddy and then the heavens opened shortly after bedding down on Saturday and the rain continued all day Sunday. No disrespect to forum members but I think I learnt more during this camp than I have over several months of reading the posts on this good forum. As is always the way, you need to get your hands dirty if you want to learn!

There will never be a substitute for doing something as a way to learn more. I see you are in North Kent, have you considered coming along to the Kent group?

Lessons aside, the camp was great fun! I made one fundamental change to my kit from my first camp and that was the shelter. Originally I took a Polish Lavvu and IPK Groundsheet,  it was a good, spacious shelter but also very heavy and I was unsure of how waterproof it might be. So, recently I purchased a one man tent from everyone's favourite outdoor shop. It was the Hi-Gear Soloista tent (basically a re-branded Gelert Solo tent) and I bought it because it was only £20 and the reviews on it weren't too bad. Made from more modern waterproof materials and about a third of the weight of the lavvu/IPK combo, I felt quite happy with my purchase.

It all sounds very heavy...

Leading up to the weekend the weather forecasts were all suggesting 100% chance of rain and with that in mind I packed an extra groundsheet to act as a footprint for the tent and also half of my lavvu. I pitched the lavvu half in a lean-to style using approx 5ft length of hazel as a centre pole and with the two ends of the lavvu raised off the ground by about 3ft and tied to a couple of trees - this worked pretty well as a rain shelter/admin area. I was quite pleased with the shelter as it kept me dry and enabled me to use a knot that I'd recently learnt - the Cawley hitch. The lavvu got well and truly soaked and while it didn't leak per se' the inside of the lavvu was sopping wet to the touch and then felt like it weighed about twice as much when I packed it away. The lesson learnt is that I'd quite like to get a reasonable sized tarp to use as admin/rain shelter over my tent. Indeed before coming on this camp I'd already wrote a letter to jolly St Nick asking for a tarp but figured a poncho or something similar would suffice, now I realise that you benefit quite a lot from the extra space when the weather goes bad. Happily the new tent worked well, pitched in less than ten mins and provided me with a comfortable sleeping space and also big enough to store my gear (in LK35 Rucksack). The only issue was that, despite having the air vents open, there was an awful lot of condensation built up inside the flysheet, so much so that the bottom end of my sleeping bag got a little bit damp on the outside from where the condensation dripped through the mesh of the inner tent. I put this down to the weather though because it was raining all night and it was also quite mild and that surely creates the perfect environment for condensation. Maybe next time I'll peg the flysheet down in a way that allows more air to circulate underneath as well as through the vents. 

Condensation in still conditions is always going to be a problem, how windy was it in the woods you were in? A tarp to augment a tent is a good idea in inclement conditions, and does't have to weigh much, Alpkit's rig 3.5 is a pretty cheap option and weighs less than a can of beans.

It was interesting to note that I was camping with some other members of this parish and I was the only ground dweller. The thought of hammocking is quite appealing but I'm not yet convinced on the idea. I sleep comfortably on the ground and I also think that for the money that you'd spend on a decent hammock set-up I'd probably rather spend it on a good quality tent such as a Vango Banshee. I daren't say this viewpoint will evolve over time!

Hammocking appeals, but the weight of all the gear needed by the time you add in under quilts and the like puts me off. I sleep very comfortably on the ground with my exped syn mat, so haven't been lured away to the trees yet.

Ground dwelling even in wet conditions can be done just with a tarp, without going to the extreme of a tent, you just need to pitch it carefully, use a bivvi bag as well, and make sure your tarp is big enough...

For cooking, we had a good campfire which cooked up some sausages. I also used a Swedish Army Trangia cookset. I'm very fond of this set as it is so simple and versatile. I did however have trouble with the burner on Sunday morning, for some reason it must have taken a good ten mins before it started to bloom. Would that be because the weather was a little chilly and damp? I did clean out all the jets as part of my prep for the camp. I must admit that I'm toying with the idea of swapping the army burner with a civilian trangia burner as I've read that they're more efficient? Also, as part of the whole cooking process, I often found myself looking round at where to put my brew kit and cup and all the paraphanalia that goes with the cook kit because the ground was muddy and horrible and you don't just want to let everything sit amongst the mud!

You're making me hungry...

All in all, while the camp was enjoyable, I learnt that you need to be far more organised when camping in more inclement conditions. Be prepareed, make sure your kit is ready and find out about the weather and likely conditions of the campsite. Learn how to keep yourself clean and hygenic in wet and muddy conditions - I think I was caked in mud within ten minutes of arrival! Not a big deal but suffice to say I used a lot of wet wipes and sanitiser. It's important to allow lots of time in daylight hours to gather fuel for the fire and recognise that it needs more attention when burning wet wood. The final learning point from me....Your kit may enable a comfy camp in perfect conditions, but how does it work when things get a bit more challenging!

Aye, Gaiters become very useful in these conditions. As do dry bags. There is also a lot of sense in the jungle approach to clothing. You have a dry set you sleep in, and a wet set you spend the day in. That way your sleep dry at night. It's an approach I've started to take even in clear weather in the UK, just to develop good habbits.

Look forward to more trip reports, and maybe seeing you at the Kent group some time soon.

Julia
 

mousey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jun 15, 2010
2,210
254
42
NE Scotland
I got a cheap tenth wonder hammock - their lightweight one for a £10 posted a couple of years a go, I think they've gone up a couple of quid since. I use the same sleeping equipment in a hammock as I do on the ground - pad & sleeping bag. So getting a hammock setup doesn't have to be expensive and the weight of the hammock including all suspension is less than 500g so not particularly heavy.

True enough I am thinking of an under quilt and eventually an top quilt. I should be able to get both halves to work like a normal sleeping bag if I go to ground.
 

birchwood

Nomad
Sep 6, 2011
444
100
Kent
I have done a lot of very wet canoe/camping this year,I think 90% of our weekends away have had thunderstorms.
I find a tarp very useful too, and a small square of plastic kept with my brew kit. A small towel to put in the porch of the tent and one of those small magic,absorbent cloth thingos ,to wipe nearly all the water off the tent in the morning before you pack it up.
Dry bags can become `wet bags` put your wet tent and kit in one to stop it dripping all over your car on the way home.
 

ocean1975

Full Member
Jan 10, 2009
676
82
rochester, kent
Good write up barny,the weather was a bit testing but we all stayed dry.i can Send you a few pictures of some of the set ups if you want to add them to this post.You can borrow one of my hammocks next time we are out just so you can try one before you purchase.im sure your be sold on it.Catch up soon and here's to the next outing.
 

cranmere

Settler
Mar 7, 2014
992
2
Somerset, England
That's an excellent write-up, it sounds as if you thought things through and got them pretty much right.

I'm a ground dweller too, I know from a lot of experience how to be comfortable on the ground so I haven't been tempted into a hammock. You need either a tent or a tarp and bivi bag, either can work well. As you discovered, cheap tents are sometimes not perfect (although many are surprisingly good for the price), it may have been seepage or condensation. If you have somewhere you can do it, put up your various bits of shelter gear and drench them with a hose to see whether they let water through. If you're getting seepage it might be worth treating with one of the proprietory waterproofing agents.

The worse the weather, the better organised you have to be. It's critical not to bring water into your inner shelter because damp clothes and blankets/sleeping bag won't keep you warm. It's worth being really finicky about it. That means having at least a small sheltered space where you can dump wet outer wear and boots.

A couple of small-ish (big enough to sit on, 3 feet square works for me) pieces of plastic or other waterproof stuff that you can use as movable groundsheets are really useful. Another thing you can do is to use dry grass, bracken, twigs etc on the ground where you start getting muddy patches.

Another thing I find very useful is a small flat piece of plastic or wood, I have a mini chopping board which is invaluable not only for cooking but also to provide a flat and reasonable stable place to put down your mug. If you're not carrying something suitable it's worth looking for something locally, a flat stone or a slice of wood works well.
 

Harvestman

Bushcrafter through and through
May 11, 2007
8,656
26
55
Pontypool, Wales, Uk
Some great points on here, but the most important one is that you are getting out and finding out what works for you. We all have different solutions to problems, and you need to find the one that suits the type of camping and activities that you do. Good on you.

For me, in muddy conditions I find a small sheet invalubale as a kneeling mat, for things like tending a fire or a stove, and for doing stuff like taking boots off. I use a baby-changing mat that I picked up in a charity shop for a quid. It is plastic so I can just rinse it clean when I get home, but it stops me getting wet and dirty when I need to do a chore on wet ground. Gaiters, as has been said, are also excellent. I recommend the DD 3x3 tarp as an excellent basic and inexpensive tarp for general shelter purposes, though other tarps are available.

Here's a pic of a recent pitch on muddy ground that I used with a 3x3 tarp. Loads of room in there, and I stayed dry despite rain.
15751349985_50a1c555aa_b.jpg


Oh yes, and drybags for everything. The expense is offset by the benefits in organisation of your kit, and it keeping stuff dry.
 

Barney Rubble

Settler
Sep 16, 2013
553
283
Rochester, Kent
youtube.com
Hi all, thanks for the tips, some great ideas there. Am going to borrow some of those ideas and am definitely going to get a tarp next (xmas list updated!) especially as my lavvu half is still drying out now!! But will stick with the tent as I quite like it. That's a great tarp configuration harvestman, might have to try that.

Will keep an eye out for details of the kent meet ups.

Andy; good camp again matey, look forward to the next one and I might take you up on the offer of a hammock!! Glad i didnt drink too much as it would have been a nightmare striking a wet camp wth a hangover! As for the piccies I see you've got a photobucket account, load them onto that and I'll post them up here.
 

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