Tree Felling (Ray Mears again!)

[anthonyyy]

" Mears’ tree-felling diagram contains a serious error: the undercut—it is named that for a reason—should go under the backcut. This keeps the tree butt from kicking back and hitting the faller, so it is not a trivial matter. Following Mears’ instructions could get you killed."

I am robbing this from another thread, but I thought it might be useful to separate this particular issue because if it is indeed a safety issue it is justified.

I wonder if anybody with good computer and drawing skills could explain what is meant in a way that an idiot like me could understand?

thanks

 

[Kane]

I'm sure Ray explained the importance of the undercut on one of the TV shows - maybe the publisher let an incorrect diagram through ...

Kane

 

[JoshG]

I'm sure Ray explained the importance of the undercut on one of the TV shows - maybe the publisher let an incorrect diagram through ...

Kane

Yes he did explain the importance of the undercut when he felled a tree with that amazing swedish ski maker!

 

[bambodoggy]

..............

 

[Doc]

Helps a lot, Bam.

There's a lot of stuff on the net but it starts getting pretty technical. What's a 'Dutchman', for instance????

 

[led]

Here's a good page describing a Dutchman.

 

[bambodoggy]

..............

 

[Doc]

Lol.. it does get rather technical after a while and I've really only skimmed over it in my post.
Does that make a bit more sence? as I said I don't want to go into too mcu details as this isn't a Arborists site and I don't want people on here trying things because they've read what I've written!

Don't worry - I won't be trying this at home. I'm not a lumberjack, and i'm okay....

 

[pumbaa]

Bambodoggy , Thank you for your insight into correctly felling a tree .
I appreciate your reasons for not going into great depth on the subject , but feel there are a few things i should confirm with you and explain to other members so as to prevent accidents if possible .
Firstly i learnt to fell a tree as a scout (which makes it all the more worrying!!)
I was taught to slope the bottom of the gob (as you call it) to aid the tree to fall in the right direction .
When a tree is nearly cut through but does not topple , we were told to push it !!
I am guessing that these are big no no's .
We never felled anything bigger than a 8 inch diameter silver birch but i think it still could have been dangerous .
Could you please give your oppinion on these points .
Cheers
Pumbaa

 

[Jared]

Haven't felled a tree for a few years, but...

Most trees have a desired direction which they going to fall, things like lean, weight, wind, or a slope. If didn't topple then possibility is that you've put the cuts in the wrong place. (Unless of course the natural direction is going to hit your greenhouse or something) If already made both cuts then use wedges or felling bars, to persuade it.

 

[Bob]

Just to add a couple of things you should consider -


1. Positioning of escape routes when tree felling

The escape routes are positioned at 45º to a line running from the centre ‘front’ of the tree (i.e. the direction of fall) to the centre ‘back’. This is statistically the safest angle of escape! Owing to the position of the felling cuts, the tree would normally fall straight forward or potentially anywhere within a 180º arc in front of the tree. However, should the final backcut be misplaced it is sometimes possible for the tree to go straight over backwards. The 45º escape routes therefore offer the most reliable areas of escape.


2. Beware the barbers chair.

Certain tree species are prone to splitting up the trunk violently and without warning as the felling cut is applied. The resulting ‘barbers chair’ happens so quickly it may be impossible to avoid and will almost certainly badly injure (or kill) the unfortunate person felling the tree. Species which readily split, such as Ash (Fraxinus excelsoir) are notorious for this trait; especially if leaning. The best protection is to be constantly aware of how the tree is reacting as you cut and not to place yourself directly behind the tree when cutting.

Although I have been fortunate never to have experienced this directly I have seen it happen - and it can happen in a flash.

I can only repeat Bambodoggy's very sound advice - if you want to fell trees properly get trained properly first.

Regards

Bob (also a trained Arborist!)

 

[OldJimbo]

Good information, Bam!

This is one of the best bits:
"Out of 6 on my course 4 failed....they failed because it's not easy to do safely!"

It's usually said here that one of the first six hanging or leaning trees you drop will kill you, or if you learn enough and are lucky enough with those then you'll probably last through many more. I've seen lots of examples to show that to be pretty realistic.
Dropping trees is an art as well as a science so a few book diagrams don't quite match up..

 

[bambodoggy]

..............

 

[JonnyP]

I learnt how to fell trees after the 87 storm. The boss was up to his neck in work, gave me a chainsaw, said be careful and off you go. I was up a big oak trying to take down a tree that was leaning into it with no facemask etc, anyway I started sawing on this branch that was about 8 inches thick where I was making the cut and the rest of it was tangled up in the oak. I looked at the branch and thought that the weight of it would cause it to fall through all the other branches that it was tangled up in, so I started cutting the top and the saw pinched, which I thought was strange, got the saw out and got it stuck again, anyway I eventually got through and the branch, instead of falling, jumped up in the air and the end that I had just cut through landed on my foot. I was wearing trainers. I nearly fell out the tree with the pain, and on the way home I had to crunch the cars gears because I could not press the clutch pedal down. Still I learnt a big lesson .................Jon

 

[tedw]

Had a chat with my Dad about this over the weekend and thought you lot might be interested in his views on tree felling. He has experience of doing it because as a 14-year old he was a slave labourer working in a Soviet labour camp in Northern Russia cutting down trees for a (sort of) living - no, he was not a criminal, just a young Pole caught resisting the Russian invasion of his country when the Soviets and Nazis split Poland up between them. Anyway, his team's job was felling fir trees with a diameter of between one and 3 feet. The two-man saw was the primary tool, with the axe used to open and shape the cuts and for limbing the trunks once they were felled. Both cuts were at the same level and flat based; indeed, they had to cut as low as possible to maximise the amount of wood produced and the maximum height allowed for the stumps was 10cm (4 inches). Angled cuts were used if they wanted to direct the fall of the tree to avoid other trees, hang ups etc. The escape routes were out to the side to a distance of about 5 or 6 yards. Trees often sprang backwards when felled but he only remembers one man killed by being behind a tree when it fell.

The prisoners worked down to -40, when it was judged too cold for the guards to be out! Fires were built to burn unwanted branches and scrap wood (the women’s job) but were not used to warm the metal tools before use nor were the tools warmed in clothing etc. He never knew of any problems as a result of this and damage to the tools would have been a problem for both prisoners and the camp officials because of a reduced production rate.

Funnily enough, so safety equipment was provided,or enough food!

Ted W

I meant.... NO safety equipment....

 

[Freak]

I worked for CDF (California Department of Forestry) with a wildland firefighting crew. I used a husky chainsaw but saw or chain saw its all pretty simple. I learned four things that seem to be universal for cutting trees.
1. Always use the wedge and backcut to drop a tree. Its just faster, cleaner, and safer. Not only that but with this cut you really reduce the chance of pinching your blade. You get your blade pinched between the weight of a tree and its trunk and you're screwed. Even if you do get it out with a wedge or another saw theres a good chance it will have a good amount of damage.
2. If a tree is leaning one direction, its going to fall that direction. So place your wedge cut accordingly. Let gravity do its thing. (edit: That goes with slight leans as well)
3. Felling the tree is the easy part. Once the tree lies on its sides you cannot just start hacking off the limbs. You have to test the limbs for tension. Limbs supporting weight will be tense and youll be surprised what a limb as big as your wrist will support. I cannot explain what I mean exactly you have just have to see it but the best I can do is tell you to just make sure you do not hack off any load bearing branches. Save them for last when you dont risk the tree rolling and whacking you with its other limbs. (edit 2: Made a pic to explain heres the link http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=350518 )
4. While escape routes are a must you really need to keep your eye on the tree. Especially old trees. We once had to prune a 100 year old oak (huge tree) because its branches were to big for it to support and were a threat to anyone under the tree. When we lopped of a limb on one side the weight shifting shook the tree and caused another to crack and fall on the other side of the tree.

Other than that...that is it.

 

[Fallow Way]

"All I would say is that if it doesn't go with a small push then you need to cut more or you have your cuts in the wrong place on a leaning or weighted tree."


have to argue with you there. There are specific proportions you should be keeping to. If you have worked to those proportions set out by the NPTC and other proffessional bodies and the tree doesnt go you dont cut it a little more where the hinge is concerned.


Freak - 100 year old oak??? does your part of the world hunt out and kill all oaks and a 100 year old one is one that slipped throught the net? lol the saying goes "it takes an oak 200 years to grow, 200 years to live and 200 years to die" just teasing

 

[Freak]

The tree is still alive. We just pruned off the branches that were sagging under their own weight waiting for a good gust to drop them on someones head.

 

[bambodoggy]

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[Fallow Way]

I have been a Forestry Instructor and obviosuly trained more than a few in tree felling through NPTC. The hinge of a tree should never go below 10% of the diameter.

Leave about an inch?
so a 5"diameter tree, you leave about an inch? a 40ich diameter tree, you leave about an inch??? If it is relative to the size of the tree, it isnt about an inch.

Please please please dont ask if i would be suggesting something as idiotic as you ask in your post. (are you suggesting that if the tree doesn't go over with a little push that you wonder off leaving it how it is while you find another tree to fell? )


Wedges are at everyones fingertips, gluts.

If there really are no other options open to you once you have done all the correct techniques, then you have stupidly tackeled a tree way beyond your ability with the tools available to you. If you do not have chainsaws, winches and the like with you (and i cant see many sticking that in the rucksack ) then you do not tackle a tree that you can not physically move yourself