Traditional kit - Ground Insulation.

[rg598]

I think this statement is wrong. And the whole notion of traditional. Traditionally people didn't travel out of anything else but pure necessity. This travelling in nature as a pasttime is a rather new thing which came with the novelty of leisure time (and money to consume stuff they actually didn't need to survive or improve the farm).

Travelling by horse has never been a viable option for most people, unless you were a hun. People have always been walking, while shelter and supplies has been carried by horse or other pack animals. In more meta-civilised times people walked to a large body of water and took a boat. And most often travelling using the large networks of hostels, taverns and whatnot that provided roof above the head and warm food for the weary traveller. It's not by chance that travelling literature spellbound large audiences since mr Gutenberg started his machine, people were just not travelling in any greater extent. Not in the way we think about travelling at least. The journey man system made people moving around but usually not with any need for camping equipment. If somebody were far from hostel or similar they would just sleep in a barn or whatnot.

But yes, furs have been used for insulation and domestic bedding for as long as man has been on this earth. And, natural insulation is not as weight efficient as modern materials. But you may have noted that most people here does not give flying eff about weight effectivness. Nor about any other effectivness. So it's time to face that no matter how much you preach about modern materials, people here will not care about the technical specs. You would be better stating the obvious on a ultralight backpacker forum.

"The Bed of a mountaineer is an article neither complex in its nature nor difficult in its adjustment. A single buffalo robe folded double and spread upon the ground, with a rock, or knoll, or some like substitute for a pillow, furnishes the sole base-work upon which the sleeper reclines, and, enveloped in an additional blanket or robe, contentedly enjoys his rest." Rufus Sage, Rocky Mountain Life, or Startling Scenes and Perilous Adventures in the Far West, During an Expedition of Three Years, 1846

"I had for bed purposes, the half of a buffalo robe, an old camlet cloak with a large cape, and a blanket. I spread the robe on the ground, wrapped the blanket about my feet and the cloak around me, throwing the cape loosely over my head to break off the moonshine, and a saddle for my pillow. And oh! I always slept most profoundly. We had tents, but it never raining and but little dew, we did not use them." John Ball, The Autobiography of John Ball - Across the Plains to Oregon, 1832, 1925

Papers of Francois Charles de Bourlamaque, 1757, who at the time was commanding Fort Ticonderoga in New York.

Summer Equipment For the Officer: 1 capot; 1 blanket; 1 woolen cap; 2 cotton shirts; 1 pair of leggings (mitasses); 1 breech-cloth; 2 skeins of thread; 6 needles; 1 awl; 1 firesteel; 6 gunflints; 1 butcher knife; 1 comb; 1 gunworm; 1 pair of moccasins every month; 1 tomahawk.
Winter Equipment For the Officer (in addition to the summer equipment above): 1 bearskin; 2 pairs of short stockings (socks); 2 folding knives; 1 pair mittens; 1 vest; 1/2 aune of blanket to make leggings; 2 pairs of deerskin shoes; 1 greased deerskin; 2 portage collars; 1 toboggan; 1 pair of snowshoes.
Summer Equipment For the Soldier: 1 blanket; 1 capot; 1 cap; 2 cotton shirts; 1 pair of breeches; 1 pair of underpants; 1 pair of leggings (mitasses); 2 skeins of thread; six needles; 1 awl; 1 fire steel; 6 gunflints; 1 butcher knife; 1 comb; 1 gunworm; 1 tomahawk; 1 pair of moccasins every month.
Winter Equipment For the Soldier (in addition to the summer equipment above): 2 pairs of short stockings (socks); 1 pair of mittens; 1 vest; 2 folding knives; 1/2 aune of blanket to make leggings; 2 pair of deerskin shoes; 1 greased deerskin; 2 portage collars; 1 toboggan; 1 pair of snowshoes; 1 bearskin.


Referencing another military campaign from the same year, a letter published in the Boston Gazette, April 18, 1757 (the letter being dated April 12, 1757), describing the French-Canadian army lead by Francois-Pierre Rigaud, Governor of Trois Rivieres against Ft. William Henry, at the time commanded by Lieutenant Colonel William Eyre, we are provided a very similar list: "This morning an account was bro't to town, that a large army of French and Indians were seen at a small distance from the German flats, but few here believe it. Sir William Johnson is still in readiness, with 1500 of the militia. Every man in the French army that came against Fort William Henry, was equipped in the following manner, viz. With two pair of Indian shoes, 2 pair of stockings, 1 pair of spatterdashes, 1 pair of breechees, 2 jackets, 1 large over-coat, 2 shirts, 2 caps, 1 hat, 1 pair of mittins, 1 tomahawk, 2 pocket-knives, 1 scalping knife, 1 steel and flint, every two men an ax, and every four a kettle and oyl cloth for a tent, with one blanket and a bearskin, and 12 days provision of pork and bread; all which they drew on little hand-sleighs." From the way the letter is written, it appears that every four men had one oil cloth tarp, one blanket and one bearskin. This may simply be poor wording with respect to the blanket and bearskin. It is more likely that each man had an individual blanket and bearskin, while sharing a tarp. This list refers to a winter gear list, as the gear was pulled on sleighs across the frozen Lake George. This account was re-published in The Performing Arts in Colonial American Newspapers, 1690-1783 by Mary Jane Corry, Kate Van Winkle Keller, and Robert M. Keller

 

[ozzy1977]

"The Bed of a mountaineer is an article neither complex in its nature nor difficult in its adjustment. A single buffalo robe folded double and spread upon the ground, with a rock, or knoll, or some like substitute for a pillow, furnishes the sole base-work upon which the sleeper reclines, and, enveloped in an additional blanket or robe, contentedly enjoys his rest." Rufus Sage, Rocky Mountain Life, or Startling Scenes and Perilous Adventures in the Far West, During an Expedition of Three Years, 1846

"I had for bed purposes, the half of a buffalo robe, an old camlet cloak with a large cape, and a blanket. I spread the robe on the ground, wrapped the blanket about my feet and the cloak around me, throwing the cape loosely over my head to break off the moonshine, and a saddle for my pillow. And oh! I always slept most profoundly. We had tents, but it never raining and but little dew, we did not use them." John Ball, The Autobiography of John Ball - Across the Plains to Oregon, 1832, 1925

Papers of Francois Charles de Bourlamaque, 1757, who at the time was commanding Fort Ticonderoga in New York.

Summer Equipment For the Officer: 1 capot; 1 blanket; 1 woolen cap; 2 cotton shirts; 1 pair of leggings (mitasses); 1 breech-cloth; 2 skeins of thread; 6 needles; 1 awl; 1 firesteel; 6 gunflints; 1 butcher knife; 1 comb; 1 gunworm; 1 pair of moccasins every month; 1 tomahawk.
Winter Equipment For the Officer (in addition to the summer equipment above): 1 bearskin; 2 pairs of short stockings (socks); 2 folding knives; 1 pair mittens; 1 vest; 1/2 aune of blanket to make leggings; 2 pairs of deerskin shoes; 1 greased deerskin; 2 portage collars; 1 toboggan; 1 pair of snowshoes.
Summer Equipment For the Soldier: 1 blanket; 1 capot; 1 cap; 2 cotton shirts; 1 pair of breeches; 1 pair of underpants; 1 pair of leggings (mitasses); 2 skeins of thread; six needles; 1 awl; 1 fire steel; 6 gunflints; 1 butcher knife; 1 comb; 1 gunworm; 1 tomahawk; 1 pair of moccasins every month.
Winter Equipment For the Soldier (in addition to the summer equipment above): 2 pairs of short stockings (socks); 1 pair of mittens; 1 vest; 2 folding knives; 1/2 aune of blanket to make leggings; 2 pair of deerskin shoes; 1 greased deerskin; 2 portage collars; 1 toboggan; 1 pair of snowshoes; 1 bearskin.


Referencing another military campaign from the same year, a letter published in the Boston Gazette, April 18, 1757 (the letter being dated April 12, 1757), describing the French-Canadian army lead by Francois-Pierre Rigaud, Governor of Trois Rivieres against Ft. William Henry, at the time commanded by Lieutenant Colonel William Eyre, we are provided a very similar list: "This morning an account was bro't to town, that a large army of French and Indians were seen at a small distance from the German flats, but few here believe it. Sir William Johnson is still in readiness, with 1500 of the militia. Every man in the French army that came against Fort William Henry, was equipped in the following manner, viz. With two pair of Indian shoes, 2 pair of stockings, 1 pair of spatterdashes, 1 pair of breechees, 2 jackets, 1 large over-coat, 2 shirts, 2 caps, 1 hat, 1 pair of mittins, 1 tomahawk, 2 pocket-knives, 1 scalping knife, 1 steel and flint, every two men an ax, and every four a kettle and oyl cloth for a tent, with one blanket and a bearskin, and 12 days provision of pork and bread; all which they drew on little hand-sleighs." From the way the letter is written, it appears that every four men had one oil cloth tarp, one blanket and one bearskin. This may simply be poor wording with respect to the blanket and bearskin. It is more likely that each man had an individual blanket and bearskin, while sharing a tarp. This list refers to a winter gear list, as the gear was pulled on sleighs across the frozen Lake George. This account was re-published in The Performing Arts in Colonial American Newspapers, 1690-1783 by Mary Jane Corry, Kate Van Winkle Keller, and Robert M. Keller

Interesting post, I wonder what they carried their gear in during the summer.

 

[rg598]

Interesting post, I wonder what they carried their gear in during the summer.

For the trappers/hunter, usually three horses per man: one for the person and two for the equipment.

For the soldiers, the personal items were usually carried by the person, and the group gear on pack train.

 

[Clouston98]

I'm wasn't thinking what was used hundreds of years ago, was more interested in what those who favour "traditional materials" use today.

Julia

As per this thread:

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121987

I use a G1000 blanket from Fjallraven and the wool underneath me when I've wrapped up in my blanket. It keeps me very warm bearing in mind I'll also have layers of clothing on also.
I pair down that kit in the summer to use a Gransfors outdoor axe, a 3.5 point blanket, no bucksaw etc- makes it lighter and smaller when you don't need as much gear- that's my four season Set up.

I've slept on moss and on spruce boughs and I favour moss. Although it can be damp it's more comfortable and is far easier to collect if you want to gather insulation at your chosen pitch.

Ross that informations was very interesting- thanks for that .

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I think this statement is wrong. And the whole notion of traditional. Traditionally people didn't travel out of anything else but pure necessity. This travelling in nature as a pasttime is a rather new thing which came with the novelty of leisure time (and money to consume stuff they actually didn't need to survive or improve the farm).

Entirely agree. Have been having a read of The medieval traveller. People did travel, largely for conquest or pilgrimage, but this travel didn't tend to involve camping out. The scene of a group of armoured men sleeping round a campfire in some woodland, appears to entirely the work of Holywood...

Travelling by horse has never been a viable option for most people, unless you were a hun. People have always been walking, while shelter and supplies has been carried by horse or other pack animals. In more meta-civilised times people walked to a large body of water and took a boat. And most often travelling using the large networks of hostels, taverns and whatnot that provided roof above the head and warm food for the weary traveller. It's not by chance that travelling literature spellbound large audiences since mr Gutenberg started his machine, people were just not travelling in any greater extent. Not in the way we think about travelling at least. The journey man system made people moving around but usually not with any need for camping equipment. If somebody were far from hostel or similar they would just sleep in a barn or whatnot.

Yep, completely agree. I was researching 12th century travel, and basically came to the same conclusions as you.

But yes, furs have been used for insulation and domestic bedding for as long as man has been on this earth. And, natural insulation is not as weight efficient as modern materials. But you may have noted that most people here does not give flying eff about weight effectivness. Nor about any other effectivness. So it's time to face that no matter how much you preach about modern materials, people here will not care about the technical specs. You would be better stating the obvious on a ultralight backpacker forum.

Very nicely put. Like it.

There is a reason I was kinda vague in my original question. I see people putting together "my traditional kit" and kit lists for Boone challenges, but I've been curious about sleeping.

The original seed thought in all this was that I see people talking about 2 wool blankets being enough. Now I am a cold sleeper, I found that a good 'ol CCF sleep matt wasn't warm enough, and migrated to the synmat. I've tried sleeping in winter at home using two army blankets, and even indoors, it wasn't enough, which got me curious what others were using for their "traditional" bedding.

I have to admit to finding the idea of "traditional kit" a bit of an oxymoron. Traditional where? I know it's a term used loosely to imply "not dependant upon plastics for everything", but can't seem to pin it down beyond that.

"The Bed of a mountaineer is an article neither complex in its nature nor difficult in its adjustment. A single buffalo robe folded double and spread upon the ground, with a rock, or knoll, or some like substitute for a pillow, furnishes the sole base-work upon which the sleeper reclines, and, enveloped in an additional blanket or robe, contentedly enjoys his rest." Rufus Sage, Rocky Mountain Life, or Startling Scenes and Perilous Adventures in the Far West, During an Expedition of Three Years, 1846

"I had for bed purposes, the half of a buffalo robe, an old camlet cloak with a large cape, and a blanket. I spread the robe on the ground, wrapped the blanket about my feet and the cloak around me, throwing the cape loosely over my head to break off the moonshine, and a saddle for my pillow. And oh! I always slept most profoundly. We had tents, but it never raining and but little dew, we did not use them." John Ball, The Autobiography of John Ball - Across the Plains to Oregon, 1832, 1925

You sir are a star. Should we ever meet, remind me to buy you a beer. A forum post, with references. Gives you a warm fuzzie glow inside.

I do wonder where I can get half a buffalo hide here in Kent...

Papers of Francois Charles de Bourlamaque, 1757, who at the time was commanding Fort Ticonderoga in New York.

Summer Equipment For the Officer: 1 capot; 1 blanket; 1 woolen cap; 2 cotton shirts; 1 pair of leggings (mitasses); 1 breech-cloth; 2 skeins of thread; 6 needles; 1 awl; 1 firesteel; 6 gunflints; 1 butcher knife; 1 comb; 1 gunworm; 1 pair of moccasins every month; 1 tomahawk.
Winter Equipment For the Officer (in addition to the summer equipment above): 1 bearskin; 2 pairs of short stockings (socks); 2 folding knives; 1 pair mittens; 1 vest; 1/2 aune of blanket to make leggings; 2 pairs of deerskin shoes; 1 greased deerskin; 2 portage collars; 1 toboggan; 1 pair of snowshoes.

Why does winter necessitate 2 extra folding knives? The bearskin, does it matter what species of bear it comes from? I assume they all have similar insulation properties?

Is this equipment list based upon being resident in a permanent camp, or travelling? I notice the summer list doesn't provide much by way of insulation.

Summer Equipment For the Soldier: 1 blanket; 1 capot; 1 cap; 2 cotton shirts; 1 pair of breeches; 1 pair of underpants; 1 pair of leggings (mitasses); 2 skeins of thread; six needles; 1 awl; 1 fire steel; 6 gunflints; 1 butcher knife; 1 comb; 1 gunworm; 1 tomahawk; 1 pair of moccasins every month.
Winter Equipment For the Soldier (in addition to the summer equipment above): 2 pairs of short stockings (socks); 1 pair of mittens; 1 vest; 2 folding knives; 1/2 aune of blanket to make leggings; 2 pair of deerskin shoes; 1 greased deerskin; 2 portage collars; 1 toboggan; 1 pair of snowshoes; 1 bearskin.

Please forgive my ignorance, what is a gunworm? also a capot?

Referencing another military campaign from the same year, a letter published in the Boston Gazette, April 18, 1757 (the letter being dated April 12, 1757), describing the French-Canadian army lead by Francois-Pierre Rigaud, Governor of Trois Rivieres against Ft. William Henry, at the time commanded by Lieutenant Colonel William Eyre, we are provided a very similar list: "This morning an account was bro't to town, that a large army of French and Indians were seen at a small distance from the German flats, but few here believe it. Sir William Johnson is still in readiness, with 1500 of the militia. Every man in the French army that came against Fort William Henry, was equipped in the following manner, viz. With two pair of Indian shoes, 2 pair of stockings, 1 pair of spatterdashes, 1 pair of breechees, 2 jackets, 1 large over-coat, 2 shirts, 2 caps, 1 hat, 1 pair of mittins, 1 tomahawk, 2 pocket-knives, 1 scalping knife, 1 steel and flint, every two men an ax, and every four a kettle and oyl cloth for a tent, with one blanket and a bearskin, and 12 days provision of pork and bread; all which they drew on little hand-sleighs." From the way the letter is written, it appears that every four men had one oil cloth tarp, one blanket and one bearskin. This may simply be poor wording with respect to the blanket and bearskin. It is more likely that each man had an individual blanket and bearskin, while sharing a tarp. This list refers to a winter gear list, as the gear was pulled on sleighs across the frozen Lake George. This account was re-published in The Performing Arts in Colonial American Newspapers, 1690-1783 by Mary Jane Corry, Kate Van Winkle Keller, and Robert M. Keller

Exceedingly interesting. It is a shame that words like Spatterdash has fallen from the common vernacular... Much more interesting word than putties or gaiters...

Thank you for your replies, I've learnt greatly from them. Thank you.

Julia

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Here in North America, Indians and frontiersmen routinely made journeys of almost incomprehensible distances. I suspect that Europeans did much the same until the Medieval feudal system put an end to doing anything without the permission of lords and priests.

It's very easy to have a euro centric view on these things.

However, if you consider the UK, for the last 2000 years we have been pretty settled down, the very act of being settled being a requirement to allow us simple things like fabric (seriously, try travelling with a warp weighted loom...). How far back do you have to go to get the an European Pioneer movement? How far do you have to go to get the "frontiersmen" ? When people moved west in the US, they did so behind the pioneers, the explorers and trappers that scoured the mountains for a road west. But when mankind moved north into Europe, they did so not alone, but in family groups, along coast lines, and the paths of rivers, through what was then an impenetrable primeval forest. Once western Europe was settled, you were more likely to be waging war with the next settlement than travelling to them. Family life was also central to everything, meaning that the lone traveller. Well we have little to no evidence for it.

The only real evidence is Otzi the iceman. Here we have a lone traveller, who's body was peppered with arrow wounds, found high up in the Alps. Alas Otzi largely gives us more questions than answers.

In any case, if you use a pack horse (or wagon, or cart, or caravan) you're still traveling by horse. Even if you are personally walking. Not by "horseback" per se, but by "horse." And as Oblio inferred in his post, there were no such things as inns, tavern, or hostels in North America west of the Mississippi River. 10s of thousands moved all their worldly belongings thousands of miles across unsettled wilderness.

And I don't remember reading of such being used often along the silk road or the spice road between Europe and Asia.

How many on Bushcraftuk travel with mounts? The silk road was made up of caravans of camelids, who could carry everything the humans needed. North American Frontiersmen travelled by horse (either on it or leading it). This means that what ever "tradition" you pick, it is very hard to find one of humans travelling on foot without the aid of mounts of some kind.

The closest we come to would perhaps be pilgrims of the medieval period, but they didn't camp, they would travel from inn to inn along the pilgrimage routes. Perhaps this is why the UK is littered with Inns, while the silk road is not. Just a thought.

A lot of this is guess work and extrapolation, please apply a giant [citation needed] to much of the above, and take with the standard pinch of salt (... slice of lemon and shot of tequila).

Julia

 

[Corso]

Please forgive my ignorance, what is a gunworm? also a capot?

I believe its usually spelt Capote? Which is a wool long coat of sorts that usually incoporated an additional layer over the shoulders and a hood

 

[Haggis]

I would think that the age of the sleeper played no small role in the choice, or necessity, of ground insulation. When I was just old enough to spend nights alone in the bush, I could sleep quite well on the bare ground with my light jacket for a blanket. Then when I became "30 something", the ground became much harder and the night air much cooler. Now, at "60 something", the coolness of the ground is unbearable. Even with 2 Hudson's Bay blankets and a foam pad I shiver until morning and am almost too sore to move at daylight. This summer I've moved above ground, to a hammock. Now, with the same sleeping bag and the same foam I sleep quite soundly and wake up refreshed.

Perhaps, if one had slept a lifetime sleeping only on what could be found at the campsite, or a rope bed at home, one might need very little for comfort, but couple this constant switching between a comfortable bed at home and a hard bed in the bush, add an accumulation of decades, and the needs of ground insulation becomes ever evolving.

 

[santaman2000]

The Summer list contains an awful lot of insulation TBH: "Summer Equipment For the Officer: 1 capot; 1 blanket; 1 woolen cap; 2 cotton shirts; 1 pair of leggings (mitasses);" Granted, this list was for New York, but still, it's way, way more than I'd carry in summer.



This is a capote

-Basically another blanket with sleeves and a hood.

-Not sure what the insulation properties of bearskin are apart from the vague knowledge that they are good. However, it's safe to assume the species referenced was Black Bear as that's the only species in the east.

-A gun worm was a tool for cleaning the inside of cannon barrels:

http://www.bullworks.net/virtual/photos/gunworme.jpg

 

[santaman2000]

......How many on Bushcraftuk travel with mounts? The silk road was made up of caravans of camelids, who could carry everything the humans needed. North American Frontiersmen travelled by horse (either on it or leading it). This means that what ever "tradition" you pick, it is very hard to find one of humans travelling on foot without the aid of mounts of some kind....

Exactly; "This means what ever 'tradition' you pick, it is very hard to find one of humans travelling on foot without the aid of mounts of some kind."

As to how many on BCUK travel with mounts? I suspect more than you might think. However! You must realize that the "traditional" mounts (coaches, wagons/carts,horses or pack animals) have mostly been replaced by "modern" mounts (bicycles, motorcycles, autos, vans, etc.) Although a few of us still like proper hunting trips into the mountains on a train of horses.

 

[Macaroon]

I've been lucky enough to have spent long periods reiving about the British Isles using a native breed pony as a pack animal, and it's allowed me to make trips that would have been impossible without a carry animal. You can cover much more ground when unencumbered and carry things like pole sets and canvas, blankets and cookware, and fresh foodstuffs that would be impossible to carry yourself, so arriving somewhere of an evening with perhaps an hour's work to set a camp that's tried and tested and much more comfortable than would otherwise be possible; this enables you to cook better food, gives time for personal admin. and hygiene and a much better quality of sleep,
thus meaning you're fresher, fitter and more healthily fed by a long way. The end result is a happy and well disposed traveller for vastly longer periods of travel, and thus a completely different perspective on your journey.

I had to stop moving around this way some years ago as it's now almost impossible to find anywhere to stop and fettle the pony or horse; I wouldn't like to be trying to arrange pasture, forage etc., then the permission to camp, and god forbid you'd need a vet or farrier these days; at least £50 to bid either of these good morning! All these things were easily managed in the past and I'm very grateful that I had the chance to experience this mode of travel just at the tail end of the times in which it was possible to do it.

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

Extract from The Prairie Traveler by Randolph Barnes Marcy, Captain, U.S.A. (1859):

"The bedding for each person should consist of two blankets, a comforter, and a pillow, and a gutta percha or painted canvas cloth to spread beneath the bed upon the ground, and to contain it when rolled up for transportation."

Anyone know what a “comforter” might be?

(The book is worth a scan for other equipment lists too - see chapter 1)

 

[mrcharly]

I think a 'comforter' is what we call a 'duvet'.

 

[santaman2000]

I think a 'comforter' is what we call a 'duvet'.

Exactly so now-a-days. But to be honest, I don't know about what "comforter" meant in the 1800s. Up until my 20s (age) I had never heard the word used here.

 

[rg598]

The items I listed in my previous post were for an army on expedition, not permanent camp.