Titanium Hatchet?

[shaggystu]

Sharpness in an axe is not necessarily the same as in a knife. Especially in an axe that does not cut but split.

True, but not necessarily relevant.

True but not necessarily relevant.

It was certainly relevant to my comment, I was trying to illustrate the fact that the weight of the axe isn't the only factor involved in the force generated by that axe.

This relates to linear momentum, I guess, but not really to Newton's second. It is not quite clear if linear momentum acts like in an elastic collision when splitting or crushing.

I don't understand what you mean by this, sorry.

The English word "power" should not be allowed without an explanation what it means in context.

There was an explanation, I provided a formula and everything, I also feel that I provided context tbh. I'll edit it to try and keep within the usage rules for the word "power".

I don't remember why I stopped posting here.

 

[TLM]

It was certainly relevant to my comment, I was trying to illustrate the fact that the weight of the axe isn't the only factor involved in the force generated by that axe.

You are mixing mass, acceleration and speed in a very strange way.

 

[Pattree]

How many joules per second does your axe apply to your fire wood?

I suspect that most of us are far more interested in function and effectiveness than definition.

I’ll repeat my previous point here:
Has anyone used one or seen one in use?

 

[TLM]

How many joules per second does your axe apply to your fire wood?

I see you got the power problem.

 

[shaggystu]

You are mixing mass, acceleration and speed in a very strange way.

The only time that I've used the words mass and acceleration are when I said "force = mass x acceleration", I don't think there's anything at all strange about that. I haven't used the term "speed".

I'm not sure why you've taken objection to my comments, maybe I've expressed myself poorly, my apologies if so.

There were earlier comments saying that an axe needs to be heavy to work, I was responding to those. All I was trying to say is that weight isn't the only thing that matters for an axe.

 

[TLM]

There were earlier comments saying that an axe needs to be heavy to work, I was responding to those. All I was trying to say is that weight isn't the only thing that matters for an axe.

I think that had already been well established and as far as I know the linear momentum equation p=m*v which implies that mas and velocity (in vector formulation) can be exchanged as you said. (Newton's second is presently mostly stated in mass* velocity though Newton's original formulation was in momentum form)

Impact analysis in various conditions use m*v though I guess some equations could be formulated with acceleration but I am not quite sure because I have never seen it done. Impact analysis tends to be somewhat non intuitive and if I remember correctly only fully elastic and fully non elastic collisions were simple.

There are some physiological limits to utilizing m*v, our muscles only move so fast and with very large masses one tends to use gravity instead of muscle. Splitting involves both friction and breaking material and my personal very subjective experience is that heavier axe heads work better with large pieces of wood, with other uses lighter weight heads work better or are at least easier to use. I think that some thousands of years of experience has brought us the spread of axe head sizes we have for different usage.

 

[shaggystu]

linear momentum equation p=m*v

This has made everything so much clearer, I'm not talking about momentum, but I am using the wrong formula. I'm talking about kinetic energy, so it turns out that the weight is even less important than I thought.

I think it looks like an interesting tool that might be really well suited to certain jobs.

 

[TLM]

I'm talking about kinetic energy, so it turns out that the weight is even less important than I thought.

Kinetic energy is probably less important than momentum if splitting is concerned, I am not at all certain how it goes with felling but very light weight felling axes seem far apart.

A Ti hatchet or Tomahawk is definitely not useless and as a first guess it is better than Al one but I'll stick to steel ones until somebody brings out good experimental data to show otherwise.

 

[shaggystu]

Kinetic energy is probably less important than momentum if splitting is concerned

I'll take your word for it, we're way past my poor understanding of physics already. However, as long as there's enough energy/momentum to get the thing stuck then you can spin it around and use the weight of whatever you're splitting to do the work for you. Once you get big logs moving they've got both energy and momentum in spades. Smaller logs you can use a baton. There's lots of ways I can see a very light axe being a good splitting tool, aluminium splitting wedges work.

I am not at all certain how it goes with felling but very light weight felling axes seem far apart.

Agreed. I don't think it's intended as a feeling axe though really. I can see it working well on small trees though, the kind of thing that you could realistically fell with a machete or similar.

 

[Toddy]

I think it's a solution looking for a problem.

I do have a SFA, well I did, I recently gave it to Son1 who has a new house with a woodburner, but I mostly use a wee Estwing.
For all it's small and fairly light, it fair packs a punch.

If I want to take down a tree I'll find a saw.

To my appalled horror I've just googled Estwing to find a photo of mine....it was originally my brother's roughing out axe that kicked around in the back of a joiner's van for years. It took down plasterboard walls, howked out window and door frames, that kind of thing. I thought it was fairly cheap.....have you seen the price of a new one now ????

 

[TLM]

I think it's a solution looking for a problem.

Is The Magician of Information in a fantasy novel once said: "huoh, it was bound to come up sooner or later, an answer without a question".

Also: that it can be done does not necessarily mean it is a good idea.

We could try the other extreme; make a hatchet out of Tungsten, at least it can take any temp you would try to use it in.
I guess I am rambling even without any alcohol.

 

[Toddy]

I'm still trying to get my head round the price of that wee axe these days

There are a lot of things that just because we can doesn't mean we should.
Not sure whether a titanium axe fills that bill or not.

Somewhat off topic but sort of relevant...I've just disposed of four ceramic knives because while they were like razors when new, re-sharpening them is beyond any sensible use of time and effort. I dug out the old Sabatiers and they sharpened up with a few swipes of the fine hone stone.
How does one sharpen Titanium ?

 

[TLM]

How does one sharpen Titanium ?

As far as I understand about the same way as a somewhat soft steel.

I remember sharpening ceramic knives with diamond wheels. That was a long time ago and I am not sure it works on all materials.

 

[shaggystu]

I think it's a solution looking for a problem.

like superglue and post-it notes

 

[trashcanman1984]

Have been re-reading this thread with entertainment....

So met up with @C_Claycomb at the Bushcraft show, and this thread came up while I was doing an axe masterclass (cannot for the life of me find their name, as they do not do social media). The instructor was an expert in axes and I tried no less than 15 styles available, including flint and copper.

Now talking to the expert, this titanium axe was discussed....long story short, mass was key to aiding the performance of the axe....like so many have discussed here. In his expert opinion he just stated there was no point.

Now @DennisD, I understand defending your product, so I think sending a few of your axes for a pass around, for forum members to try is the best way sort this out. A number of times here, members have asked if anyone has tried your product or any like it.

@DennisD If you want to have honest opinions, the forum has experts that will test your products.

 

[TLM]

I have put in some thought. Not much but a bit.

In a light mass (mass is constant but weight varies) splitting axe with equal head masses a Ti one might work better in cases. The reason being geometry, to be more exact, thickness. If side profiles and masses are equal then Ti one is thicker which could make it a better splitter. The few times I have tried tomahawks they were not great at splitting anything but matches, they tended to get stuck, probably because they were too thin or at least that was my fast analysis.

That would be a quite expensive splitting axe though.

I still do not really see a use for Ti in a GP hatchet as minimizing mass is not really a desirable end goal there.

 

[shaggystu]

...including flint...

That's a really good point actually, titanium is considerably denser than flint.

flint/chert 2,600 kg/m3
titanium 4,510 kg/m3

so flint axes are even more useless than titanium ones if mass is the only thing that matters.

I really don't need any more axes, but I'm so tempted to buy one of these just to try it out, I think it has a place.

 

[TLM]

if mass is the only thing that matters.

But mass is not the only thing, linear momentum is mass*velocity and there are both practical and as a guess theoretical limits why they are not totally interchangeable.

A sharp flint axe probably beats a round stone in felling a tree.

 

[shaggystu]

But mass is not the only thing

I know, I've just tried to give an example that illustrates that point.