Tipi or bell tent?

[Martyn]

I'm planning on getting a large tent for car-camping. The tent will get thrown into the back of me landy and I'll be camping next to the truck or a very short hump from it, so size and weight isnt an issue. This means I can go for luxury ...and I'll definitely be wanting a stove. The tent must be tough and 4 season.

At the top of the list of tipi's is the mosko (tentipi) tapp varrie 9 cp...
http://www.stunningtents.co.uk/Sales/Varrie_Tentipi.asp

A fantastic tent with optional ground sheet and liner, ideally suited for use with a stove. But hellishly expensive.

Next for the tipi's is the Bison tundra 8...
http://www.pointbarwilderness.co.uk/tundra8.htm

Again a big tent but with some questions over quality, no liner and optional groundsheet. Much cheaper though.


Next is a bell tent, I like the look of these but wonder if they are as robust in poor weather as the tipi's? The design means that comparable sized bell tents feel bigger and again they can be used with stoves. First up is the 6 man bell from unbeaten tracks...
http://www.unbeatentracks.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductID=BEL6

Roomy looking, looks tough as nails but not much info on the tent. Seems to have an options groundsheet.

Next is the 5 meter bell from belltent.uk...
http://www.belltent.co.uk/main2.htm

Big roomy looking, but not sure how tough it is. It looks as though it may be more of a dry weather tent.

Opinions? Which would you go for and why?

 

[weekend_warrior]

Go for the Tundra - at worst it's gonna cost you and extra £14 for a litre of Nikwax Cotton Proof (which is what I'm doing!)

The ground sheet is very good, but could use eyelets fitting so you can stake it out first - £15 tops for a high quality all brass kit with die and tool.

Still a bargain compared to the other tipi's - and what fun is a piece of kit you can't mod?

Bell tents? No thanks....

 

[spamel]

Why not get a military 9 x 9 which is designed as a stand alone tent or to fit to the back of a landrover as an extension? This means you can leave most of the kit in the landy, and use it like a stowage cupboard that you can access from the tent. Retro fitting a baffle for a flue to go through and to connect to a good sized fire box in your tent should be relatively simple, and what with the skills of the people on here and BB, you could get it done cheap if you don't fancy doing it yourself.

Get yourself a couple of military cots and you will live like a king!

 

[Squidders]

While I dearly love my tipi, a function of the design is that the closer to the edge you get, the less head room you have. The walls on a bell tent negate this problem.

Bell tents are usually much heavier but that on from unbeaten tracks is a peach - I saw it at last years wilderness gathering - rock solid and really rugged feeling.

If weight and pack size weren't an issue, I'd go for that one.

 

[Martyn]

Go for the Tundra - at worst it's gonna cost you and extra £14 for a litre of Nikwax Cotton Proof (which is what I'm doing!)

The ground sheet is very good, but could use eyelets fitting so you can stake it out first - £15 tops for a high quality all brass kit with die and tool.

Still a bargain compared to the other tipi's - and what fun is a piece of kit you can't mod?

Bell tents? No thanks....

I'm very tempted by the tundra 8, it seems to be exactly the same size as the tentipi varrie 9 (3.5m high by 5m in dia), The material is given as 185gsm polycotton with an overall weight of 18kg. I'm a bit confused here as the tentipi fabric is supposed to be 250 gsm polycotton, quite a bit heavier fabric, but with an overall weight of 13kg. So where does the bison get it's extra 5kg from? Is the bison actually made of lighter weight material?

The price is attractive. If the dimensions are actually exactly the same as the tentip, it may be possible to use the inner tentipi tent with the bison outer, with a combined price that is lower than just the cost of the main tentipi tent.

I'm curious ... why "no bell tent"?

 

[Martyn]

Why not get a military 9 x 9 which is designed as a stand alone tent or to fit to the back of a landrover as an extension? This means you can leave most of the kit in the landy, and use it like a stowage cupboard that you can access from the tent. Retro fitting a baffle for a flue to go through and to connect to a good sized fire box in your tent should be relatively simple, and what with the skills of the people on here and BB, you could get it done cheap if you don't fancy doing it yourself.

Get yourself a couple of military cots and you will live like a king!

Ahhh, AKA "the land rover tent"...

I have looked at em before but they are exceptionally heavy and not really my thing.

 

[Martyn]

While I dearly love my tipi, a function of the design is that the closer to the edge you get, the less head room you have. The walls on a bell tent negate this problem.

Bell tents are usually much heavier but that on from unbeaten tracks is a peach - I saw it at last years wilderness gathering - rock solid and really rugged feeling.

If weight and pack size weren't an issue, I'd go for that one.

It looks the most solid of the bunch and with a 400gsm canvas, I'm sure is the most "heavy duty". But I get the feeling it may be a little "utilitarian" compared to the slightly more refined tipi's. I do like it though - interesting that you've seen one squid - do you think it can be fitted out to accept a stove/chimnea? Also, what tipi do you have?

 

[thingswelike]

There's also the time spent pitching to consider - the tentipi is really fast (maybe 10mins the first time and then 4-5mins after that. Those bell tents look great, but I don't think they'd go up as easily or stand up to wind and rain as well as the tentipi.

I'm still thinking of the Varrie 9cp, comfort floor and Fourdog stove as my ideal setup. With maybe a tarp set up over the door during longer stays (pic here) , but it is about double the price I was comfortable with. As soon as we make the final decision between the 7 and 9, I'll probably take a deep breath and stick it on the credit card (hasn't been used for 3 years now as I'm self-employed).

I do keep looking at the Bison tents as a good alternative, but they just don't seem like the 'lifetime tent' I'm after at the moment. I think my wife would like the option of adding an inner at a later date if needed too (although I think that Bison have mentioned they might do one).

Yet another factor is the colour - that cream Varrie lets in a lovely coloured light. I haven't seen the Bison, but I have seen the synthetic Tentipi Vagge and it was a cold atmosphere inside.

Other canvas tipi options are the Venor models from Andrew at outdoorcode - slightly cheaper than Tentipi. And also the Tentipi Arran which saves about £170 over the Varrie, but lacks bottom vents and the internally-adjustable top-cap venting.

 

[Spikey DaPikey]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tinde-4-Norwe...ryZ36119QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Dont know seller etc

 

[thingswelike]

The seller is one of the 2 uk shops - http://www.pointbarwilderness.co.uk
The other being http://www.madbearoutdoors.co.uk

 

[Squidders]

It looks the most solid of the bunch and with a 400gsm canvas, I'm sure is the most "heavy duty". But I get the feeling it may be a little "utilitarian" compared to the slightly more refined tipi's. I do like it though - interesting that you've seen one squid - do you think it can be fitted out to accept a stove/chimnea? Also, what tipi do you have?

I'm fairly sure you could get a stove in the bell tent without too much bother... I originally had a Bison tundra 16 but that was vast and complete overkill and just fit in the main part of a bergen... I had the stove they provide with it which was brilliant.

I ended up swapping the whole lot for a tentipi vagge 7, floor and firebox for a few reasons... The whole lot can be carried in anywhere very easily as it packs tiny and weighs little... for car camping these aren't really benefits though so my choice may not be the right one for you.

If I had somewhere to dry it properly and fancied something just for car camping, I think I would go for the tentipi canvas one without all the fancy nonsense at the top with the remote control. I have seen one and it's just another thing to break and have to be careful with when packing. Bam has one and the plastic rod thing pops out when unpacking and needs fiddling with before pitching. I do agree with thingswelike regarding the colour though, it feels very warm inside the cream tentipis just by virtue of the light.. i'm not unhappy with my vagge in the least but the colour isn't as nice inside.

The bell tent was dark because the fabric was so thick... they will probably have one up at this years wilderness gathering this year... and I know Roger at Bison bushcraft will have all the tentipis there as he sells them... would be a good place to check both options out.

 

[tomtom]

Cor you landy really is getting well kitted out isn't it! Personally I would go for the Varrie Moscoselkatan katas are quality through and through, I would love a big one for car camping!

 

[thingswelike]

Squidders, you're in a unique position, as an owner of both, to campare and contrast the build/materials, etc of the Bison and Tentipi tents. Any comments?

 

[Martyn]

Squidders, you're in a unique position, as an owner of both, to campare and contrast the build/materials, etc of the Bison and Tentipi tents. Any comments?

Was gonna ask exactly the same thing, particularly as the varrie cloth is supposed to be 250gsm compared to the 185 of the Bison.

 

[Martyn]

Cor you landy really is getting well kitted out isn't it! Personally I would go for the Varrie Moscoselkatan katas are quality through and through, I would love a big one for car camping!

Done some more to it recently. I'll try and get a pic of it later.

 

[Squidders]

Well, neither of the tipis I had were heavyweight canvas for a start so i'm not sure how relevant my meagre experience is regarding your needs.

But, generally, I would say that the tentipi is a little better thought out...

The bison tried to eliminate the whole using a bit of string to mark out the perimiter by having some webbing you pull tight... the problem is, that this was very easy to fall over

Also, the bison had a nice little window by the door... great... if you are no more than 1.5 foot tall... it was JUST above ground level!

The arrangement of the hat on the bison was annoying, especially considering that it was 3.5m off the ground and impossible to tinker with... the adjustment cords were so long that they would easily tangle while unpacking so it was easier to just completely untie it before packing away... I started replacing bits with shock cord like the tentipi as this worked better.

The poles on the bison however, nested and took much less room - that was better than the tentipi... and it's loads cheaper.

I would say the build quality was about the same really and once you know and get used to the quirks of the bison, it was pretty easy to live with. mine was 6m diameter though.

Of the two, I would say flip a coin - it's not very helpful advice but there are loads of happy people with both tipis kind of mirroring my thoughts anyway.

I know there is a strong urge to say that whatever you currently have is better because it makes you look a bit more savvy instead of "I ended up with this and it sucks" but I got a tentipi before there was a UK seller of bison tipis and it was pure convenience. I got my bison before they took credit/debit cards and had to do a currency transfer at my bank and it was a pain in the butt.

 

[thingswelike]

Thanks Squidders - interesting stuff. I've been surprised at how few of the group-buy participants have commented on their purchases.
Also this may matter to some and not others, but the Bison's are made in China, whereas Tentipi's are made in Sweden.

 

[Martyn]

I'm fairly sure you could get a stove in the bell tent without too much bother... I originally had a Bison tundra 16 but that was vast and complete overkill and just fit in the main part of a bergen... I had the stove they provide with it which was brilliant.

I ended up swapping the whole lot for a tentipi vagge 7, floor and firebox for a few reasons... The whole lot can be carried in anywhere very easily as it packs tiny and weighs little... for car camping these aren't really benefits though so my choice may not be the right one for you.

I used to have an Arran 5 light, which I think is now the vagge 5? Anyway, I want to go the opposite way. I want a much bigger tent for car camping exclusively. I think the tundra 16 may be a bit too big, but I would consider it. I also agree, that the dark green of the Arran/vagge/Bison range isnt the best colour to make the most of ambient light. The Varrie 9 looks about perfect, but at three to four times the cost of the Bison, it comes at a monstrous cash penalty.

 

[Squidders]

Go for the Arran then: http://www.stunningtents.co.uk/Sales/Arran_Tentipi.asp

It's basically the same but without the utterly OTT remote control bit for the hat.

 

[Martyn]

Also this may matter to some and not others, but the Bison's are made in China,

These days, I think it's probably easier to list what isn't made in China rather than what is.