Thermarest - Cascade Design NeoAir Xtherm and customer service fail.

[BigMonster]

Hi guys.
I'm writing this post to have a little of a rant, and as a warning for anybody googling for this product and this company.
I'm out and about a lot, and because I don't have kids, don't smoke or drink I can afford now and then a new bit of equipement from my average wage. So I decided to invest (and it was a serious investment) in a new sleeping mat. After few years with Exped I pulled the trigger on a brand new and shiny Thermarest Neoair xtherm max which is their top of the range and also most expensive mat.

I was lucky to purchase it from a fantastic shop http://www.outdoorgear.co.uk/ that had patience and unbelievable level of customer service to help me out in my "adventure".

Thermarest products are made by company CascadeDesign and have two factories, one in USA making stuff for the yanks, and another one in Ireland producing for Europe including UK. In the states Thermarest have a fantastic opinion especially regarding customer service and warranty. I have just found out that things are different this side of the pond.

After getting my matt I opened the box and found this:



Spots like this in few areas that I was afraid was mold that could have damaged the fabric. After returning it to the seller I have been informed it's a "dye transfer", aka dirty/contaminated in the factory.

Got my replacement in few days. opened the box, inflated. Mat got limp after 10 min. Washing liquid revealed two leaks on the fold:



There was no punctures or damage, air was going through the fabric as I suspect it delaminated underneath.

Returned same day to the seller. Now they tell me this:
"I have spoken with Cascade today with regards to your NeoAir mat and they have requested it back for testing… this may take 1-2 weeks as we will need to wait to receive it here and send it to Ireland but I have requested they treat this as urgent so it shouldn’t be too long.
The reason they have requested it back is because all mats are inflated and tested before they are packed their end so the warranty does not cover punctures…. Due to this being brand new and unused I have fought them on this so we should get a quick turnaround."

After a week of waiting I got another message:
"I have just had confirmation from Cascade that we can replace it for you so I have ordered one in as soon as it gets here I will let you know J"

So basically "yeah, give him another one". I did ask was there anything else, apology, an explanation, anything. There's another flower:
"I was genuinely trying to give you the quickest outcome for this as I feel bad for what has happened with regards to this order. Unfortunately Cascade do not deal with customer direct… if you would like to write an email addressing it to them but email it to me I can forward it on for you?
Kind regards,"

So after £150, three to four weeks of waiting and trips to post office, about 10 emails, two brand new faulty mats, seller that had to fight them to accept faulty items for inspection I get "just give him another one, we won't talk to him".

Not only that but while I was still waiting for me first item I contacted cascadedesign asking them about the compatibility of the chair kit. I didn't get the answer to this day.
Add this video to the list:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZHPy3Olzjk

So it look's like you are better off with Exped in UK. Maybe I'm a bit sensitive here, but I thought I was paying foremost for quality and faith in the brand. Not much of it left now.

 

[petrochemicals]

Tell them stuff it, you've lost faith in the product and the company. Terrible customer service, an you are within your rights to ask for your money back

 

[Countryman]

I'm forced to play devils advocate here.

Your contract is with the shop you bought it from. They should have replaced both mats when faults were found. It's for them to deliver the retail experience. They didn't have these in stock?
The shops contract is with the manufacturer. Only they should have to put up with the perfunctory communication.

I have a Neoair Xtherm and it's been excellent. Genuinely struggle to think of a better alternative.


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[mountainm]

Your contract is with the retailer. If the retailer believed it was punctured out the box (as they said they did) then they should've given you a replacement or refund immediately. At which point they persue the manufacturer for recompense.

 

[Squidders]

What others have said. The retailer taking themselves out of responsibility by simply acting as a mediator between you and Cascade Designs isn't on. You purchased goods from the retailer that were faulty and that's all you need to really care about. The support from Cascade designs should not be your concern, just the retailers.

I also question that Cascade Designs / Thermarest do not deal directly with customers. I have contacted them twice, both times with older products and their responses both times have been perfect.

It's a shame that you have got unreliable products, I have had around 15 Thermarest mats in my time in various flavours and currently own three Neo Air Dream mats and an Xtherm Max and have had a great time with all of them. It's a shame also that your retailer wasn't more responsive.

 

[BigMonster]

Retailer was really helpfull. Also they gave me their last two mats so they have to wait for a new one form cascade. Should be with me next week so hopefully third time lucky. But I have lost confidence in this product.

 

[mountainm]

Retailer was really helpfull. Also they gave me their last two mats so they have to wait for a new one form cascade. Should be with me next week so hopefully third time lucky. But I have lost confidence in this product.

Sorry but the responsibility ends at the retailer - did they offer a refund when the had no other mat in stock?

M

 

[BigMonster]

Yes they did. But their price is very good, they looked after me very well with freepost returns, instant response to my messages and generally doing everything they could to please me. So I want my money to stay with them, if it goes wrong again I know they will look after me. And I'm hoping to get a mat from a fresh batch and properly tested.

My main point is that I'm very happy with the retailer. Just it looks to me like there is a problem with the manufacturer in Ireland.

 

[mountainm]

Yes they did. But their price is very good, they looked after me very well with freepost returns, instant response to my messages and generally doing everything they could to please me. So I want my money to stay with them, if it goes wrong again I know they will look after me. And I'm hoping to get a mat from a fresh batch and properly tested.

My main point is that I'm very happy with the retailer. Just it looks to me like there is a problem with the manufacturer in Ireland.

My point was that the seller is bound to put a spin on it to make them appear to be doing there utmost. (Even if they are). They should've just sourced you a new one and dealt with a return themselves without any messages about "fighting" with the supplier. It's a slick sales tactic.


It should have gone like this:

"No problem, we've got none in stock at the moment so we can either offer you a refund, or source you a new one (X weeks lead time). We'll return this one to the manufacturer. Please let us know how you wish to proceed?"

 

[sunndog]

seems the retailer is putting a bit of spin towards cacade designs as said, other than that not a lot to moan about as far as i can see mate
Two faulty units is bad luck, but both replaced in good time

 

[Cascade Designs]

Hello,

We are very sorry to hear that you weren't completely satisfied with our product and our level of customer service.

We strive to provide the highest quality outdoor gear available and especially pride ourselves on providing excellent service to our customers. It is very rare that we receive product feedback of this kind. We are always happy to deal with customers directly and this is facilitated by email links on our website and product instructions”http://www.cascadedesigns.com/Service/Warranty-and-Repair

We would like the opportunity to discuss this with you further. Please contact our warranty team at consumer@cascadedesigns.ie and we will look after you. Thanks.

 

[BigMonster]

Message sent.

 

[Countryman]

Hello,

We are very sorry to hear that you weren't completely satisfied with our product and our level of customer service.

We strive to provide the highest quality outdoor gear available and especially pride ourselves on providing excellent service to our customers. It is very rare that we receive product feedback of this kind. We are always happy to deal with customers directly and this is facilitated by email links on our website and product instructions”http://www.cascadedesigns.com/Service/Warranty-and-Repair

We would like the opportunity to discuss this with you further. Please contact our warranty team at consumer@cascadedesigns.ie and we will look after you. Thanks.

L I K E

👍


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[BigMonster]

Just got a reply from Cascade. Copy/past for future generations and your amusement.

Sent: 19 September 2015 18:38
To: IRLConsumer <Consumer@CascadeDesigns.ie>
Subject: Warranty issue

Hi guys.
I'm writing to you in reply to your message in this forum thread:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134874

Basically things went quite wrong for me with your product and when I tried to resolve the issues with the retailer I got the impression you are not bothered. I have asked the seller when they where replacing my mats to ask for an explanation what could happened.
I have been told:
"If you would like to contact Cascade direct then you can contact Ciamha, Pronounced (keva) on 0035321 4621480 she is aware of this situation as I have stressed how unhappy you are with regards to the two mats you have previously received."

Maybe I'm spoiled a little as I try to invest in best gear I can afford and most of the time when something fail, companies are quick to explain and sort the situation. I understand we are talking about things that can and will get faulty now and then, but it would be nice to hear:
"sorry, at this occasion the fabric was ABC and we are making sure you are getting a tripple tested item this time. And if anything else happens we will look after you". It actually reinforce faith in the brand.
It's the end of the season and we are trying to get out almost every weekend to make most of it. Instead of shining my new toy in front of my friends and spreading the Thermarest fame, I'm going to and from the post office and typing emails. And I'm not trying to extort any freebies (although an extra repair kit might be a good idea..), I simply believe something like that shouldn't slip through your net.

So any idea why a brand new mat elegedly individually tested at the factory was leaking straight out of the box? And as I'm still waiting for the response from US website maybe you can help me. Which chair kit (if any) would be compatibile with this mat.

Regards.


Hello Matthew,
We take our quality very seriously. It is what defines us. Unfortunately you did not have the first time experience that we would expect from one of our products. This is why I asked for them to be returned for us to evaluate them.
Every single Neo Air mattress is inflated and then tested in an immersion tank to check for potential faults. Following that they are stored inflated in our hold area for 24-36 hours depending on the size of the mattress. Only then are they sent to the packing stations for final inspection and packing.
The first mattress has an organic compound on the surface, having evaluated this mattress it doesn&#8217;t look like mould, mildew or dye transfer .This is not something that we have seen before so we are unsure where it came from as there is nothing at our plant that could have caused that. The second mattress did have a rip in it. Having just explained our quality control, we were just as surprised as you. Due to the serious nature of this complaint we are now conducting a plant inspection to see if there are any anomalies in our production process that may have contributed to this fault.
Obviously there are times where certain situations are outside of our control, but we did react proactively. Your retailer is out of stock on this item so we have organised for one to be shipped to them from our warehouse in Belgium.
To answer your question, the compact chair 25 would be the chair of choice for your mattress.
We provide worldwide warranty service so at any stage you need our service we are more than willing to help. You can contact us directly in this event.
If you have any further queries or questions please feel to contact me at any time.

Regards

Ciamha


WARRANTY/REPAIRS DEPARTMENT
CASCADE DESIGNS LTD.
Dwyer Road, Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland.
Tel: +353 (0) 21 - 4621400


Three weeks and counting.

 

[ADz-1983]

Retailer was really helpfull. Also they gave me their last two mats so they have to wait for a new one form cascade. Should be with me next week so hopefully third time lucky. But I have lost confidence in this product.

I'm sorry mate but you have just been played, plain and simple. All they have done is spin it to LOOK like they are trying to be helpful but in fact they are trying to pass responsibility over to Cascade as far as replacement goes. They either did this on purpose or because they do not know/care that they are are responsible to immediate refund or replace. They didnt want to refund and didnt have stock to replace so they just passed the buck and made you wait until they got stock replacement from Cascade.

 

[BigMonster]

They offered me a refund but it was my choice to stick with them. So they didn't play me, they simply runned out of mats and then Cascade warranty departament took over.
For me bottom line is that A, two brand new items tested and inspected at the factory where messed up straight out of the box. And B, they didn't care even though they knew there is a very unsatisfied customer out there, only after I have offerred them a chance to contribute in this thread I got a response (quite mellow in my opinion).

If I had two hammocks in the row from DD one dirty and other one falling apart, I'm pretty sure they would knock on my door with a big box of chocolates.

 

[mountainm]

Given cascades thorough quality control procedure one possible cause could be the retailer sending you ex display or returned items. Especially given they were the last in stock.

 

[BigMonster]

When I ordered my first one they had 8 in stock, when I got the second one they had 3 left in stock, after second return their website was showing 0 in stock. Both mats where wolded identically with eccesorries and leaflets rolled inside the same way. Everything looked really new and stiff and untouched.

I was thinking that but there was no indication items are used.