The Titanic sinking conspiracy theory

[lub0]

The sad thing is, i came into this debate with an entirely open mind.

This is the dangerous part about you. Not only do you have an entirely closed mind, but you yourself actually believe you are the complete opposite. This is dangerous becuase it means you are in complete self-denial, and nothing can be done about it until you chose to!

I have absolutely no side here, i have absolutely no gain from believing one side or the other.

Again you are completely ignorant to the ramifications of personally agknowledging that such a terrible and vast in scale event could of been carried out by the US government (secret elements within), with the ramifications of course being a subsequent breakdown of your current belief system, of which you obviously have a very strong one that provides comfort to on a daily basis as you think you have a generally strong comprehension on how the world works. To agknowledge 9/11 would smash this to pieces and make you very uncomfortable, as well as force you to exert the huge effort of re-building that belief system up around the foundation of this new truth, something which you clearly are un willing to do!

Some people can have strong belief systems with each individual belief seperate from the other. This is a strong, yet flexible belief system that can easily be changed upon discovering new knowledge. Others have a strong belief system with each individual belief co-dependant on the other. This is a rigid belief system and is very unhealthy. You have this type, so any new information that challenges even merely one of your beliefs is immediately rejected becuase all your other beliefs would suffer as a result. Textbook cognitive dissonance.

And again I will say that 9/11 is readily accepted as an inside job by anyone with a free unbound mine. You can argue all you want about the irrelevant minor details that you so love to refute and dwell over, but the fact of the matter is that if you can't accept 9/11 as an inside job then you have failed the litmus test of having a free unbound mind and have proven to the forum, but tragically not yourself that you are far too deeply plugged into the Matrix to see things for what they are any more I mean you yourself say you saw the 3 towers fall in a controlled demolition manner yet then argue for days on end that it was not a controlled demolition. You are the one with the mental problems!

 

[HillBill]

Jones's "hypotheses and interpretations of evidence were being questioned by scholars and practitioners" and had not been "submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review." source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones One of his later formed team thought the towers were bought down by "directed energy weapons"

Sounds daft i know. But nano thermite can be triggered with... wait for it.......

"Other means of ignition can include flame or laser pulse. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-thermite

So the concept of the WTC being brought down by directed energy weapons has just made the leap from impossible, to improbable

Now i'm not suggesting i agree with that idea. But its not as far fetched as you are making it sound.

At the end of the day, "IF" nano thermite was used, the planes hitting the building and the fire afterwards would have triggered the reaction, so laser pulse wouldn't be needed.

 

[lub0]

Your google foo is weak young padawan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-thermite

Actually I think cbr6fs ability to use google is perfectly good and that this just goes to prove how he really does not want 9/11 inside job to be true and is desperately trying to preserve is current beloved belief system by making himself feel better by arguing over small crappy details here in this thread.

His logical left brain agrees that 9/11 is an inside job... this is true for everyone, but becuase the belief system that provides comfort and security is at stake, a self-defence system is immediately activated in the brain in the form various sub-conscious desires, motivations and triggers that quickly overwrite the initial perfectly logical conclusion and the full-cricle of self-denial is complete.

To the victim, this is of course not how he/she sees it, and so they remain in an indefinate slumbering state (plugged in to the Matrix) while the evil conspirators are allowed to carry on as normal while we that are aware of what is really going on, in other words awake, watch on in horror, disgust and anger.

 

[wattsy]

This is the dangerous part about you. Not only do you have an entirely closed mind, but you yourself actually believe you are the complete opposite. This is dangerous becuase it means you are in complete self-denial, and nothing can be done about it until you chose to!



Again you are completely ignorant to the ramifications of personally agknowledging that such a terrible and vast in scale event could of been carried out by the US government (secret elements within), with the ramifications of course being a subsequent breakdown of your current belief system, of which you obviously have a very strong one that provides comfort to on a daily basis as you think you have a generally strong comprehension on how the world works. To agknowledge 9/11 would smash this to pieces and make you very uncomfortable, as well as force you to exert the huge effort of re-building that belief system up around the foundation of this new truth, something which you clearly are un willing to do!

Some people can have strong belief systems with each individual belief seperate from the other. This is a strong, yet flexible belief system that can easily be changed upon discovering new knowledge. Others have a strong belief system with each individual belief co-dependant on the other. This is a rigid belief system and is very unhealthy. You have this type, so any new information that challenges even merely one of your beliefs is immediately rejected becuase all your other beliefs would suffer as a result. Textbook cognitive dissonance.

And again I will say that 9/11 is readily accepted as an inside job by anyone with a free unbound mine. You can argue all you want about the irrelevant minor details that you so love to refute and dwell over, but the fact of the matter is that if you can't accept 9/11 as an inside job then you have failed the litmus test of having a free unbound mind and have proven to the forum, but tragically not yourself that you are far too deeply plugged into the Matrix to see things for what they are any more I mean you yourself say you saw the 3 towers fall in a controlled demolition manner yet then argue for days on end that it was not a controlled demolition. You are the one with the mental problems!

they aren't minor details they are pretty bloody major. thermite IS NOT an explosive, and IS NOT used in building demolitions. nano-thermite isn't a separate substance from regular thermite, its just a finer grade (also, wikipedia articles do not count as proof). thermite is used to weld stuff, and to blow holes in tanks, planes artillery etc (used to disable guns and vehicles in WW2 for example)

the only person with a rigid belief system here is you. if 100% concrete evidence turned up tomorrow that 9/11 was an inside job then I've no doubt that my opinion's, and those of others, would change. however, all we have are articles of discredited 'research', repeated, strongly worded assertions by armchair experts the likes of you and pure conjecture. because of this, people with inquisitive minds can safely reject that opinion. it has no basis in fact. at all.
and when this is pointed out to you, you fall back on they 'you're a sheeple' cr$p that most conspiracy theorists have as their reserve weapon. it's boorish and tedious, and casting aspertions on some people who disagree with you're view is incredibly rude and offensive. I've added you to my ignore list because you are incapable of polite exchanges. good day

 

[HillBill]

they aren't minor details they are pretty bloody major. thermite IS NOT an explosive, and IS NOT used in building demolitions. nano-thermite isn't a separate substance from regular thermite, its just a finer grade (also, wikipedia articles do not count as proof). thermite is used to weld stuff, and to blow holes in tanks, planes artillery etc (used to disable guns and vehicles in WW2 for example)

the only person with a rigid belief system here is you. if 100% concrete evidence turned up tomorrow that 9/11 was an inside job then I've no doubt that my opinion's, and those of others, would change. however, all we have are articles of discredited 'research', repeated, strongly worded assertions by armchair experts the likes of you and pure conjecture. because of this, people with inquisitive minds can safely reject that opinion. it has no basis in fact. at all.
and when this is pointed out to you, you fall back on they 'you're a sheeple' cr$p that most conspiracy theorists have as their reserve weapon. it's boorish and tedious, and casting aspertions on some people who disagree with you're view is incredibly rude and offensive. I've added you to my ignore list because you are incapable of polite exchanges. good day

Are you saying nano thermite does not exist or that its never been made into an explosive?

Massive difference between nano thermite and thermite, one is military grade the other is civilian grade.

Who has all the research been discredited by? Government bodies/agencies/scientists etc Bear in mind that "IF" it was an inside job, then even concrete evidence would be discredited in some way. Don't tell me something like that wouldn't happen as i'll just point you in the direction of "climategate" Its already happened, doctored evidence in order promote agenda and public opinion.

 

[lub0]

wattsy I refuse to debate the 9/11 incident with the likes of you becuase it is fruitless. Unless it was announced that 9/11 was an inside job by the mainstream channels that you so adore, then the likes of you are just not going to be satisfied.

And since all mainstream science, news and education is funded and controlled by the same groups of people, such a relevation is never going to happen so I save my energy and instead attempt to make the likes of you aware of the pychological issues stopping you from believing the obvious truth and facts shown before you.

 

[rik_uk3]

Sounds daft i know. But nano thermite can be triggered with... wait for it.......

"Other means of ignition can include flame or laser pulse. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-thermite

So the concept of the WTC being brought down by directed energy weapons has just made the leap from impossible, to improbable

Now i'm not suggesting i agree with that idea. But its not as far fetched as you are making it sound.

At the end of the day, "IF" nano thermite was used, the planes hitting the building and the fire afterwards would have triggered the reaction, so laser pulse wouldn't be needed.

Your moving away from the dubious source of the whole thermite theory I linked too. Jones is not credible, his 'evidence' is laughingly thin, the crowd he hangs out with are no better...all he's done is make money from the gullibility of some people.

The heat from the fires started by the planes was enough to weaken the steel and cause the collapse, it really is as simple as that.

 

[HillBill]

Who says he isn't credible Rik?

Its all well and good you guys saying one thing or another, but where is the evidence? Youtube vids don't work for us, so they don't work for you aswell. What else ya got Rik?

All evidence would be laughably thin were it a cover up/inside job as they would have done their best to hide it wouldn't they. Yet you believe in UFO's, and all such evidence of those UFO's comes from similar places as the 9/11 evidence. Bet you can't post a link to a credible site about it.

So you buy the one idea of UFO's, automatically accepting the fact that the government are lying to people, and hiding the truth, yet wont believe the 9/11 stuff? Because the government are now a credible source? Because they discredit other evidence put forward?

Confused much?

Funny thing Rik, is you believe in UFO's and yet seem not to understand what they are here for. ( if they exist at all )

Your moving away from the dubious source of the whole thermite theory I linked too. Jones is not credible, his 'evidence' is laughingly thin, the crowd he hangs out with are no better...all he's done is make money from the gullibility of some people.

The heat from the fires started by the planes was enough to weaken the steel and cause the collapse, it really is as simple as that.

 

[ged]

...Who has all the research been discredited by? Government bodies/agencies/scientists etc Bear in mind that "IF" it was an inside job, then even concrete evidence would be discredited in some way. Don't tell me something like that wouldn't happen as i'll just point you in the direction of "climategate" ...

From the BBC only yesterday:

Climate "sceptics" claimed emails showed that university scientists manipulated and suppressed key climate data.

But those accusations were largely dismissed following a review.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17838436

Sounds daft i know. But nano thermite can be triggered with... wait for it.......

"Other means of ignition can include flame or laser pulse. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-thermite

So the concept of the WTC being brought down by directed energy weapons has just made the leap from impossible, to improbable

Now i'm not suggesting i agree with that idea. But its not as far fetched as you are making it sound.

I don't think any effort is needed to make it sound far fetched.

... "IF" nano thermite was used, the planes hitting the building and the fire afterwards would have triggered the reaction, so laser pulse wouldn't be needed.

And if you will read your own references, you will see that a decade ago the world supply of nanometre-size particles was very limited. A rare commodity to be burying it willy-nilly in skyscrapers on the off-chance that they might unexpectedly have to be demolished, don't you think?

Bill, stop it. It's complete balderdash. Laughable. You're just making yourself look silly.

 

[wattsy]

wattsy I refuse to debate the 9/11 incident with the likes of you becuase it is fruitless. Unless it was announced that 9/11 was an inside job by the mainstream channels that you so adore, then the likes of you are just not going to be satisfied.

And since all mainstream science, news and education is funded and controlled by the same groups of people, such a relevation is never going to happen so I save my energy and instead attempt to make the likes of you aware of the pychological issues stopping you from believing the obvious truth and facts shown before you.

its not psychological issues. i just have a very highly tuned bull sh%t detector and you are offensive

 

[shaggystu]

and i was enjoying this thread so much too, shame that's it's about to be locked really

 

[mountainm]

Still desperately searching for a coherent motive to back up all this supposition.

This is what I've gleaned so far.

It was done to steal $200,000,000's worth of gold and as an insurance job also to motivate people to back up going to war and as a reason to keep the populace afraid (therefore controlled), the CIA were in on it (or embarrassed by it) so destroyed WTC7 but the masterminds behind the robbery (or the CIA, or maybe they were the same people) used thermite to collapse the buildings. the planes were a decoy to make everyone look elsewhere (?) althought the terrorists flying the planes were known and had been under surveillance (perhaps they were brainwashed by MK Ultra)?. They had to destroy the buildings with explosives to cover up any evidence that gold was stolen. Both explosives and thermit were used as explosives were heard (thermite usually doesn't go bang from what I've seen). Firetrucks were used to ship the gold so the fireservice was likely in on it to some degree. And no plane hit the pentagon - no idea what did. Probably something spawned by Roswell. The CIA and MI6 knew and were watching the hijackers until shortly before the attack but stopped doing so (obviously had to move on to coordinating the demolition whilst helping the gold thieves). All this was done by the mysterious overlords that run the universe to whom we are just mere pawns.

Just because it sounds far fetched and overly complicated doesn't mean it isn't true. 'Scuse me - I have a black helicopter to catch!

 

[HillBill]

And if you will read your own references, you will see that a decade ago the world supply of nanometre-size particles was very limited. A rare commodity to be burying it willy-nilly in skyscrapers on the off-chance that they might unexpectedly have to be demolished, don't you think?

Bill, stop it. It's complete balderdash. Laughable. You're just making yourself look silly.

I never claimed it was buried willy nilly Ged, that was another poster.

You may have noticed the word 'IF" on many of my posts. I thought this word made it clear that i was discussing things in a hypothetical sense as opposed to stating things as facts.

Hypothetical scenarios are good for genuine debate, me stating facts doesn't leave room for debate, just disagreement.

 

[HillBill]

LOL, thats makes some funny reading

I'm pretty sure you have confused many issues there though.

Discussing scenarios etc doesnt mean that we are saying they happened. It was good to actually have the discussion with you guys anyway. Makes a change.

Still desperately searching for a coherent motive to back up all this supposition.

This is what I've gleaned so far.

It was done to steal $200,000,000's worth of gold and as an insurance job also to motivate people to back up going to war and as a reason to keep the populace afraid (therefore controlled), the CIA were in on it (or embarrassed by it) so destroyed WTC7 but the masterminds behind the robbery (or the CIA, or maybe they were the same people) used thermite to collapse the buildings. the planes were a decoy to make everyone look elsewhere (?) althought the terrorists flying the planes were known and had been under surveillance (perhaps they were brainwashed by MK Ultra)?. They had to destroy the buildings with explosives to cover up any evidence that gold was stolen. Both explosives and thermit were used as explosives were heard (thermite usually doesn't go bang from what I've seen). Firetrucks were used to ship the gold and no plane hit the pentagon so the fireservice was likely in on it to some degree. The CIA and MI6 knew and were watching the hijackers until shortly before the attack but stopped doing so (obviously had to move on to coordinating the demolition whilst helping the gold thieves). All this was done by the mysterious overlords that run the universe to whom we are just mere pawns.

Just because it sounds far fetched and overly complicated doesn't mean it isn't true. 'Scuse me - I have a black helicopter to catch!

 

[mountainm]

LOL, thats makes some funny reading

I'm pretty sure you have confused many issues there though.

....on purpose - as it can't "all" be true, but motive is the first thing to establish when solving any crime.

 

[HillBill]

....on purpose - as it can't "all" be true, but motive is the first thing to establish when solving any crime.

Strong motives in this case, Money, power, propaganda. Take your pick

 

[mountainm]

Strong motives in this case, Money, power, propaganda. Take your pick

I already did - Terrorism. Which one are you backing. Which overriding theory do you subscribe to?

 

[Badger74]

I'm a demolition expert.

I play Angry Birds everynight...

 

[mountainm]

I'm a demolition expert.

I play Angry Birds everynight...

Shhhh echelon is listening.

 

[HillBill]

I don't know.

I like the gold heist theory though.

I already did - Terrorism. Which one are you backing. Which overriding theory do you subscribe to?