The Rise and Fall of the Plastic Bag

[Rod Paradise]

We used to do it here - charging a deposit on a glass bottle and refunding it when the bottle was returned. Can't see why it wouldn't work still

I remember it well - over the back wall out the back of the chippy, snaffle half a dozen bottles, take them to the bowling club, get money for them, over the back wall of the bowling club, snaffle them again & off to the chippy, collect money + takings from bowling club & get a feast

Get caught get a**e kicked!!

 

[feralpig]

We've had the bag tax in Wales for a few years now, I don't remember how many. I hate it. The amount of money I am spending in a supermarket, I at least expect to be given a bag to carry the goods out with. There is enough tax paid already for the council to clean up after they are dropped.
If it only covered the supermarkets, it wouldn't be so bad, but it covers most, if not all retail outlets.
If I go in and buy a load of small car parts, the retailer is prevented by law to give me anything to carry them out with.
When I bought two Opinel knifes from an outdoors shop, I did manage to get the bloke to see sense, that it wouldn't be looking very good on me if I had them loose in my pocket when the drunkard peeing on the wall of the pub next door decides to assault me. He did give me a bag, at the risk of a £150 fine.

To be fair, the reusable bags are pretty good, but it's just another example of the population having to shell out and change their ways, because of the arrogance and greed of the politicians and big business.
They are pretty clever when it comes to getting food into the supermarket, why don't they use a little bit of that to stop their bags getting spread far and wide, instead of punishing us for it.

 

[Rod Paradise]

We've had the bag tax in Wales for a few years now, I don't remember how many. I hate it. The amount of money I am spending in a supermarket, I at least expect to be given a bag to carry the goods out with. There is enough tax paid already for the council to clean up after they are dropped.
If it only covered the supermarkets, it wouldn't be so bad, but it covers most, if not all retail outlets.
If I go in and buy a load of small car parts, the retailer is prevented by law to give me anything to carry them out with.
When I bought two Opinel knifes from an outdoors shop, I did manage to get the bloke to see sense, that it wouldn't be looking very good on me if I had them loose in my pocket when the drunkard peeing on the wall of the pub next door decides to assault me. He did give me a bag, at the risk of a £150 fine.

To be fair, the reusable bags are pretty good, but it's just another example of the population having to shell out and change their ways, because of the arrogance and greed of the politicians and big business.
They are pretty clever when it comes to getting food into the supermarket, why don't they use a little bit of that to stop their bags getting spread far and wide, instead of punishing us for it.

I think it's more the population need to change their ways - with it being very difficult for the politicians to make them. Personally I don't find carrying a cloth shopping bag in my pocket too difficult.

 

[Joonsy]

Instead of asking for 5p per bag it would be better to stop them all together

that is the point i was making -- a 5p charge will change absolutely nothing -- if they are bad for the environment then stop making them, presumably it's okay to buy one but not be given one for free, a number of countries already have an outright ban on them , it is the only responsible solution.

 

[wingstoo]

I remember the shopping trips to the super-markets back in the early seventies, they had a huge pile of cardboard boxes for people to take their shopping home in...Then came the waste transfer laws... Cardboard boxes can be classed as commercial waste, as such they cannot be taken from the premises without a waste transfer licence... Fun and games.

I don't think it is the householder causing the problem with their shopping bags, it is more likely to be the non-householder dumping them when they are finished with, we don't tend to take them out to the countryside or the streets to drop them off when finished with, we either bin them or recycle them.

 

[rik_uk3]

Carrier bag use goes down, but peddle bin liner sales go up...

Reduce - Reuse - Recycle Although we tend not to use carrier bags for the main shopping trip of the week as we have all sorts of reusable ones which Tesco give extra points for using.

Instead of asking for 5p per bag it would be better to stop them all together, it wouldn't put too many poly bag makers out of work either, they would just make other polythene products instead, all of which are a blight on the landscape once discarded randomly.

A daft idea, think about it and the knock on effect to the poor cashier who says 'sorry, don't do bags'

I thought things were bad in Wales but looking at posts from English members it seems they have to walk through a minefield of plastic on their way from the car to the camp spot...must be awful

 

[Joonsy]

I don't think it is the householder causing the problem with their shopping bags, it is more likely to be the non-householder dumping them when they are finished with, we don't tend to take them out to the countryside or the streets to drop them off when finished with, we either bin them or recycle them.

the household refuse and waste disposal centres do not stop the wind from blowing them all over the place.

 

[widu13]

I just heard a spokesman for someone or another saying that the bags are to be seen everywhere in the street, rivers, streams, woods, fields. I had a good look on the 20 mile drive home from work. I passed one. Someone had bagged their car rubbish in it and thrown it on the verge.

Yes it is an issue but I don't think there's a need to get our knickers in a twist over it.

 

[feralpig]

I've done a fair bit of work on the highways, and in the forestry. I can't say I've seen woodland badly littered, but then I am in a thinly populated rural area. The highways, on the other hand, are still littered with all sorts of fast food packaging, cans, crisp packets, sweet packets, and so on. So, OK, there are no supermarket bags any more, but quite honestly, it hardly makes any difference. At least a discerning litter bug may have taken the time to put all the litter in the bag and chuck it out the window, making it easier to pick up, but now it all comes out separately.
Compared with the rest of the plastic that goes to landfill, or ends up in the sea, reducing the number of plastic bags, right at the most inconvenient point in their lifecycle, will achieve sweet nothing.
If it was the supermarket or the food producer taking the financial and inconvenience hit for it, I'd say nothing, but charging the customer for it just smacks of money grabbing.
And why oh why are they not allowed to supply cardboard boxes to carry goods out? As said above somewhere, they are commercial waste, what an unfortunate coincidence......

 

[Joonsy]

some of the countries that have plastic bag bans, Riwanda amongst them and rather poorer but apparently cleaner than the UK http://people.howstuffworks.com/how-many-cities-have-a-ban-on-plastic-bags.htm

 

[bigroomboy]

Firstly I believe a charge may help to discourage plastic bag use. But it does nothing to solve the problem of littering in general which is a big problem.

I use reusable bags when ever possible but the situation is not a clear as it seems.

Disclaimer: I can't remember the exact source or numbers but I think it may have been on the BBC.

On average carrier bags are reused 4-8 times for other tasks such as further transport and eventually as bin liners.

To get similar green credentials an aldi type thicker reusable bag must be used 100's times. The more sturdy heavy plastic and fabric bags must be used more than 1000's times. If this doesn't happen then we were better off sticking with carrier bags.

Biodegradable bags help with the litter issue although before the fully degrade they break up into many bits which looks much worse. They are not good for reuse and they release much more CO2

I don't know what the answer is but I do think that the amount of unnecessary packaging in all retail applications needs to be reduced significantly.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[wingstoo]

the household refuse and waste disposal centres do not stop the wind from blowing them all over the place.

So maybe they should be the one paying for not controlling their site and causing littering, not the householder :bluThinki

 

[Joonsy]

So maybe they should be the one paying for not controlling their site and causing littering, not the householder :bluThinki

if there were none then there would be none to control.

 

[Gaudette]

Part of my pocket money was made up from returning glass bottles, the corona ones, if my memory serves.

I have some knowledge of the " bag tax". There was a government proposal back in the nineties similar to this one. Our company was worried that this would affect turnover, as the belief was that free bags generated turnover. In much the same way as large trollies encourage more sales. Anyway a colleague and I were charged with putting a case together as tobwhy this was a bad idea. My colleague ,who was a wizz with stats , managed to present some very powerful evidence about job losses. From that day to this I have never believed anyone who uses stats to make an argument. Soon after this ,with powerful lobbying from the other companies the government dropped it like a hot potato. What makes me smile is this. The supermarkets have now allowed this to go through why? I suspect it's because a) they will be able to market it as a "green thing" and b) a concession will have been given somewhere along the line. Maybe on land fill tax. Also all those five pences will add up to a lot of money . Will the interest be donated as well , I think not. The money generated will not be donated each day it will probably be every six months. Finally there will be a fee charged somewhere in the system for collecting this " tax.

What charities will this money go to? Bet your bottom dollar it won't be environmental ones.

I'm well aware this post is full of cynicism, sorry for that. On the whole this is a great idea. Carrier bag use will reduce and 5p is a great entry point. An extra 5 p rise each election will tick the green bit of the manifesto for the parties.

These and a few others are the reasons why there will be no blanket ban on carrier bags. A cost has been made into an income. I wouldn't be surprised if the supermarkets suggested the whole thing in the first place. After all who sells the bags to replace the free carrier bags and how long before the price goes up?

 

[Joonsy]

Compared with the rest of the plastic that goes to landfill, or ends up in the sea, reducing the number of plastic bags, right at the most inconvenient point in their lifecycle, will achieve sweet nothing.

you have to start somewhere, or do nothing instead -- i am all for reducing any plastic packaging and similar items but there has to be a start point or do nothing.

 

[wingstoo]

if there were none then there would be none to control.

But then there would be something else to worry about... before carrier bags it was ?

 

[Harvestman]

A few people on here are saying it won't work and won't change behaviour. Most of those living in Wales who have posted on here will tell you that it does work. People routinely carry bags with them in the car, and know to pack them when going shopping.

It felt a bit odd a month or so ago, in Yorkshire, walking towards a supermarket thinking "Oh no, I've forgotten my bag!" and then realising that they were still giving them out free. I dunno, somehow it felt sort of quaint and old fashioned - "What? they still give you free bags here? How retro!"

Other litter is still a problem of course, but supermarket plastic bags are no longer part of that problem for most of Wales. I see it as an improvement.

 

[feralpig]

you have to start somewhere, or do nothing instead -- i am all for reducing any plastic packaging and similar items but there has to be a start point or do nothing.

I totally agree with you, but why don't the multi billion turnover international companys take the financial hit, instead of the consumer? Its all down to politics, dressed up in an environmentally friendly message, IMO.
Not wishing to drift off subject, but there is so much else the supermarkets could do if they were even the tiniest little bit concerned about the environment.

 

[Bowlander]

Bring back the green Safeway crates, they were great.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2

 

[pastymuncher]

I will admit to not being the most environmentally careful, but it does irk me when when I see so much unecassary packaging on items.

I'v always wondered what would happen if we returned the packaging back to the manufacturers of it, especially if it was done by post without a stamp or use their freepost address.

As for biodegradable plastics, ASIUI the plastic doesn't vanish it just breaks down in to small particles which then just blow around or float around in the oceans, still there but you cant see it.