The hermit of Loch Treig

[Mhearadh.macleod]

He has lived in isolation but he hasn't lived totally out of human contact. The estate staff has known for a very long time he's been living there and perform regular welfare checks on him. He lives there because he's allowed to by the landowner.

You seem to be fixating on Scotland having rolling expanses of wilderness and people are trying to tell you this isn't the reality of it. Even the gentleman who lives on Loch Treig is just a under a 90 minute drive from Fort William which is the closest large town to him and there's numerous small villages closer to him.

Compare that to the likes of Maine which is a comparable size to Scotland. It has a population of approximately a fifth of what Scotland has and you can truly live an isolated life there

it has nothing to do with isolation. Scotland is what I want period. There is no question about that. I get the point that it is not like Alaska, the rainforest, the amazon, the plains of Australia, I get it. With how many people have said it, I truly doubt I can dispute it. The way he is living is what I want. I wanted it before I knew he existed. This is what I want. Scotland is my home regardless of modern day society views and I REALLY don't want to get into a political discussion about it please.
8,352 mile
What I am trying to figure out is how. He MAY have or MAY NOT have gotten land owner permission. From his story it sounds like he didn't the estate care takers found out and turned a blind eye. No one knows people are only making an assumption because there is nothing on the internet that shares that detail.

I respectfully wish people at this point would stop repeating themselves. I get it. I won't be 3,598,352 miles away from people. I get it. I know Maine has a similar climate, I know Alaska is good, I know the rainforest is good. I am sorry to be nasty but I am just getting overwhelmed at this point and I am tired of how much research I do from day to day. I wake up, I code all day, on my breaks I research, at the end of the day I research, on weekends I train. Some weeks I train all day. It has just become so exhausting at this point. I am autistic and do NOT do well with people. So I am sorry I am getting overwhelmed by the same answers and I am sorry. I just don't understand if no one is getting my point. I get that it's not the 14th C. I get that 90% of trees were cut down in the 60s. I get it. 1 hour from civilisation is good enough to me. It's rare you will ever see anyone and that is sooooo great. Please let us move on from this.

All I asked was if anyone knew how he did it and clearly the answer is not possible, only speculative. Therefore, I used hypothetical editing stating what happens if I do it. What would happen? What would the owner say, would he/she/they not turn a blind eye too?

New question

How would I even get in contact with them

Please forgive me again for my nastiness. I am just overwhelmed and I am sorry

 

[Wildgoose]

Its a tough one mate.

The nature of forums such is this is that people will offer advice and guidance even if it’s not 100% what you were after.

On here it’s generally out of kindness and an eagerness to help. I’m sorry to hear you have been bullied previously for your views.

I started a thread on here about perception and how we look to the public, it was interesting to read the replies.

Obtaining permission is difficult, that’s whether you want to camp, shoot or fish.

You may need to phase how you do this.

My advice:

1. Travel to Scotland legally and obtain the right to stay - nobody is going to harbour you if not
2. Rent a cabin, Croft, barn and build up trust with the locals (you don’t need to be a socialite, just not a stranger)
3. Demonstrate you can farm/fish and live the way you choose
4. Identify some land, find the owner and make an approach. Ask if you could camp and spend a bit of time there, demonstrate that you know what you are doing
5. Seek permission from the owner to stay on a more permanent basis. Stay legal with this.

Sorry to say this but I think if you knock on the door in 14th century dress and ask to live on someone’s land you are unlikely to be welcomed in.

If you just turn up and pitch camp you may find the local gamekeeper or landowner Is not happy.
Best case is you are told to leave, worse case you come back to find your shelter destroyed (some people are known to take direct action with such matters)

Please keep us posted

 

[Souledman]

It might be worth getting ahold of the documentary about that guy, I vaguely remember it does answer some of your questions. If I recall correctly, he was also walking out fairly regularly to pick provisions before his stroke.

In theory you should be able to use registers of Scotland https://www.ros.gov.uk/ to identify owners of any given bit of land in Scotland. However I am not sure how well the address search will work for any given random point in the highlands.

My understanding is that a lot of land in Scotland is concentrated in the ownership of a few owners. It is suggested that currently 432 private land owners own 50% of the private land in rural Scotland. There are current moves in the Scottish Parliament around land reform to provide more transparency around who owns what. Sometimes for historical reasons or financial the beneficial owners are not known or hidden. Land Reform and ownership in Scotland is a massive rabbit hole, but I think the issues around it mean it might be challenging to find any given owner.

As others have said you might be best to come here, get settled and explore in person and work up to the larger ambition. That fella at Loch Trieg walked thousands of miles before he found somewhere to settle.

 

[Woody girl]

The thing is, non of us know this hermit, or the landowner, or the person who turned a blind eye to him, so we cannot answer this particular question with anything other than speculation, which doesn't help much I know.
All we can do, is read up on the reports same as you, and wonder how he did it ourselves.
The only way you will know, is to find him and talk to him. By the very nature of his life, he's not easily contactable, so you will have to do it in person.
Maybe he was known by, and a good friend of the landowner or bailiff.
We can only guess.
Sorry if it's all so overwhelming for you. Sounds like you are realy working hard, and feeling a bit frustrated and overwhelmed.
Take a step back, and take the time to write down salient points in a pros and cons list. Then rate it all. 1-10
Add them up, and you will give yourself a chance to think and see in a physical form where the sticking points are, and then you can see or research how you might go on from there.
It's a system I use for big decisions, and it works. I used it to decide if I should move to where I am now, with a small baby in tow, pretty much on my own, with no support or friends to an out of the way place. I had to make a few comprimises and sacrifices for what I wanted, and it's still not perfect, but its the best I can get. It works for many problems.
Incidently, you are not the only person who feels they would be better off without society. It often crosses my mind too!

 

[Mhearadh.macleod]

Thank you to everyone who has helped me in this journey and been so understanding and not too quick to judge. I have had a really hard life and respectfully I don't mean how most people mean when it comes to modern society. I make up a rare and small percentage of people who truly have had the worst in life. I don't believe I shared this before (because our conversations have been so deep (I apologise if I have) but just to give insight on my life I will share it below. I do this so people who have had it bad in life can see that if I haven't given up neither should they.

Through all my problems and troubles, all I want to do in this world is help people. I know it's crazy but I really do love people it's just the relationships that is a no go for me. When we have to be rescued when wild camping, we don't stop camping, we just don't do the thing again that got us hurt in the first place.

I have devoted my life to poverty just to take care of others. I truly do only want to do good in this world.

My trauma and why I said I am done with society:

- My mum abandoned me after abusing me physically, s*xually, mentally, verbally and emotionally
- My best mate's mum got stuck with me, cared for me for a few years, started calling her mum then she abandoned me.
- My nan and grandad took care of me and then grandad who was abusing my nan abused me. I would go to school, get bullied, then come home to be abused more
- My best mate and only mate my entire life was murdered
- My nan was diagnosed with cancer
- My grandad took my nan's life while she was going through cancer
- I became homeless for a long while, finally got on my feet after a while, no one helped me and now I have been diagnosed with PTSD on top of my already diagnosed autism.

Becoming a hermit has nothing to do with my trauma, it's just I can't and refuse to ever cope with society. I have been training for years for this life and now I am a software engineer just so I can come to Scotland where I call home. I am a Scot regardless of what anyone says. I read, write, speak Gaidhlig, I am a self taught Scot Historian, my family is from Scotland and so much more. The only things I have in common with Americans is the accent wish I REALLY wish I could break so I try to only speak Gaidhlig if I can help it.

 

[Woody girl]

You have, by the sound of it, had a truly terrible time of life. I admire you tenacity, but I'm a little confused as to how you want a) isolation and a hermit life away from society, and b) to do only good for society.
Is it possible to expand on the second idea, as I do understand your reasons for the first, even if I don't think it's the best idea.!
Sorry if that is a problem or stressful for you, but it is a bit of a conundrum that being a "norm" I can't quite get.
If you don't want to reply to that, it's fine. But I'm genuinely concerned for you, and would like to understand.
You can pm me if you like, if you'd rather not put it out there for everyone to see.

 

[Mhearadh.macleod]

You have, by the sound of it, had a truly terrible time of life. I admire you tenacity, but I'm a little confused as to how you want a) isolation and a hermit life away from society, and b) to do only good for society.
Is it possible to expand on the second idea, as I do understand your reasons for the first, even if I don't think it's the best idea.!
Sorry if that is a problem or stressful for you, but it is a bit of a conundrum that being a "norm" I can't quite get.
If you don't want to reply to that, it's fine. But I'm genuinely concerned for you, and would like to understand.
You can pm me if you like, if you'd rather not put it out there for everyone to see.

Thank you for such kind words and concern. For me at least, living a hermit life is a form of isolation however, doing good for society can also mean giving to the poor and entering society even for a day to give to others. If I would call soon to be life of anything, I would say it's a combination of Monk and Hermit. I would like to have a small piece of land (even if not mine) to live on for the rest of my days as a hermit in isolation, gather a mass amount of food, pelts, things I built, etc. and give it all away once a month. To those who need it. Even the monks of the medieval period lived in isolation (the monastery) but entered into the village to help the less fortunate. The hermit part (to me) means just staying away from society as possible with little to no influence. We must always have some kind of human interaction one way or another sooner or later or we would go insane screaming willson on a beach...willson happens to be a volleyball with a face you drew on using paint (cast away film for all who hasn't seen it)

 

[Woody girl]

Ah, that makes more sense, though I'm not too sure turning up on someone's doorstep and giving them an animal pelt would be awful welcome in this day and age!
I might appreciate a tanned rabbit skin, but I live too far away from Scotland for that to be practical.
Badgers are protected, and most won't entertain a fox skin anymore due to our laws.
I'll let you into a secret, I have some (way back) native American in my bones, I always felt an affinity for the people and learned to speak a bit of the language. I had a tipi, went to, and even organised pow wows here in the UK, and had a dream to reconnect to my "heritage " by moving to the States and living the old ways in a tipi.
Needless to say, the reality of life nowadays is not what I dreamed of, and I had to accept it would not happen.
So now I have made my own way of life, being as close to nature as I can, involving many of the things I learned about here in the UK. I'm still(in my sixties) learning how to live in my own environment. It took me ten years to learn my own area well enough to be able to forage to the extent I do, and I grow a garden. I can hunt and fish if I want to pay, being a hunting and fishing community you'd think it would be easy to do so. It's not, it's all very regulated and aimed toward the rich gentry. As is most hunting in the UK. Most else is poaching, and breaking the law.
I still could not support myself , especially in the lean months, and we have a large "hungry gap" as its called where foraging is a mean thing to ones belly.
I'd like to see you come, make a new life, but you carry a lot of trauma, and you realy need some professional help before you go out into the wild as you wish. Life isn't all plain sailing, even for us "norms"!
I too have had serious trauma in my life, which I'm not going to share publicly, so I have some empathy for you. That's why I can say you will need some proper help at some point to help you come to terms with it all.
I have a small amount of understanding...I won't say knowledge.. about autism, there are varying degrees, and a lot of people can live a near normal life without others being aware of it, others can't, and I'm aware that one can become obsessed with something to the exclusion of a lot else. Normal life can be too much input too.
That's my sole sum of understanding. Not much, I'm sure you will agree!
All I can say, is I hope you can realise at least some part of your dream, if not all of it, and get a happy medium.

 

[Mhearadh.macleod]

Ah, that makes more sense, though I'm not too sure turning up on someone's doorstep and giving them an animal pelt would be awful welcome in this day and age!
I might appreciate a tanned rabbit skin, but I live too far away from Scotland for that to be practical.
Badgers are protected, and most won't entertain a fox skin anymore due to our laws.
I'll let you into a secret, I have some (way back) native American in my bones, I always felt an affinity for the people and learned to speak a bit of the language. I had a tipi, went to, and even organised pow wows here in the UK, and had a dream to reconnect to my "heritage " by moving to the States and living the old ways in a tipi.
Needless to say, the reality of life nowadays is not what I dreamed of, and I had to accept it would not happen.
So now I have made my own way of life, being as close to nature as I can, involving many of the things I learned about here in the UK. I'm still(in my sixties) learning how to live in my own environment. It took me ten years to learn my own area well enough to be able to forage to the extent I do, and I grow a garden. I can hunt and fish if I want to pay, being a hunting and fishing community you'd think it would be easy to do so. It's not, it's all very regulated and aimed toward the rich gentry. As is most hunting in the UK. Most else is poaching, and breaking the law.
I still could not support myself , especially in the lean months, and we have a large "hungry gap" as its called where foraging is a mean thing to ones belly.
I'd like to see you come, make a new life, but you carry a lot of trauma, and you realy need some professional help before you go out into the wild as you wish. Life isn't all plain sailing, even for us "norms"!
I too have had serious trauma in my life, which I'm not going to share publicly, so I have some empathy for you. That's why I can say you will need some proper help at some point to help you come to terms with it all.
I have a small amount of understanding...I won't say knowledge.. about autism, there are varying degrees, and a lot of people can live a near normal life without others being aware of it, others can't, and I'm aware that one can become obsessed with something to the exclusion of a lot else. Normal life can be too much input too.
That's my sole sum of understanding. Not much, I'm sure you will agree!
All I can say, is I hope you can realise at least some part of your dream, if not all of it, and get a happy medium.

Lol nah man, it's for the homeless. I plan on building tents out of their hide (mostly tanned skin), making food, building crafts and weaving clothes, making fishing items, etc. Anything someone can find useful, help them survive, etc. the better. I will also focus on the refugees, the poor, the working class, the abused, the orphans etc. No one will ever go without help that I come in contact with if I can help it.

 

[Woody girl]

I admire your thoughts, they are indeed generous, but the homeless live mostly in the big cities, and it's not possible to just fish for yourself here without a licence, which most homeless could not afford. Hides.. are you thinking of deer? You be in trouble before you knew it. Even the "wild" herds are managed and taking them would have you in court pronto.
You cannot bow hunt here, and to take a deer, you need to have a shotgun licence. You cannot just buy one here. You have to have police vetting, and ANY mental health issues would stop that in its tracks. I'm so sorry to burst your bubble there, but its only fair you know the truth and reality of things here.
There is nothing to stop you coming here, working and having a life where you can spend your spare time in the wild, but your dreams are going to be a very very hard thing to realise. My greatest fear, is that you get here with your head full of stuff that you find just won't work, and you will be in a worse state than before.
What you have in your favor is strength determination single mindedness and a dream.
Would that I had that much!

 

[Toddy]

Why not look into this then.
Scotland has a lot of islands. Many of our island communities manage because everyone does multiple jobs. The postman/woman might also be the shop owner and part time (hah, doesn't happen) crofter.
The fellow who runs the bar(generally seasonal) or any b&b, might also be part of the pier crew who help unload supplies, and be the contact to the mainland if the net goes down and maybe does a bit of fishing too.

That kind of life is commonplace in island communities, from Canada to Norway, right across the Atlantic and North Sea.

Many of the islands are SSSi's ...sites of special scientific interest, perhaps because of rare flora or threatened bird species. Those sites often have seasonal wardens. Those wardens are housed, and paid, but they live and work in remote place with very few people around. There are always opportunities to apply for those jobs. It's a good way of finding connections, of making connections, with not only locals, but links to landowners and the like too.

There is another thought that might suit you. Have you heard of https://wwoof.org.uk

This is a network (it's world wide, this is the British site) of farms, estates, smallholdings, etc., who welcome people to come and do some work on their land in return for accomodation, meals, etc..
There are Scottish sites on their list, and again, it's good contacts, not just the official on site ones, but among people who know people who have land or access to land, or opportunities.
Who you know, and how they know you, really matters here. I think you need to start to make that kind of connection, even if you do wish to live apart from other people for the most part.

Charity to us ought to be anonymous. It's not America's overt (and tax deductible) charity.
Soup kitchens, homeless shelters and charity shops would be more likely to happily accept your time and efforts rather than donations of all your worldly handmade goods. We don't, for the most part, live in a rustic world. Scotland is very much a first world country.

Anyway, best of luck with it all. Be practical about things, and I hope that going forward live is good to you.

M


Edit.
Woody girl is right, firearms are very restricted here, and Bow hunting is illegal in Scotland. Even with a licence, and landowners permission you need a rifle with a suitable calibre to shoot deer.

Hunting and shooting wildlife

Open and closed season for hunting, what you can use and the wildlife you can hunt

www.gov.uk

 

[Mhearadh.macleod]

I admire your thoughts, they are indeed generous, but the homeless live mostly in the big cities, and it's not possible to just fish for yourself here without a licence, which most homeless could not afford. Hides.. are you thinking of deer? You be in trouble before you knew it. Even the "wild" herds are managed and taking them would have you in court pronto.
You cannot bow hunt here, and to take a deer, you need to have a shotgun licence. You cannot just buy one here. You have to have police vetting, and ANY mental health issues would stop that in its tracks. I'm so sorry to burst your bubble there, but its only fair you know the truth and reality of things here.
There is nothing to stop you coming here, working and having a life where you can spend your spare time in the wild, but your dreams are going to be a very very hard thing to realise. My greatest fear, is that you get here with your head full of stuff that you find just won't work, and you will be in a worse state than before.
What you have in your favor is strength determination single mindedness and a dream.
Would that I had that much!

Thanks so much for the advise, within luck, I have studied the UK laws probably just as much as a barrister to be honest (metaphorically speaking). I plan on paying for license to fish and hunt. Bows are illegal so I would have to buy my own gun which from my research should not be a huge issue or problem. Fishing poles however can be used for sea fishing all year around and certain clubs could offer times where they would be permitted. However, all. of this is just hypothetical planning. Things will change over time and new ideas on how to serve others can be more functional and possible.

Many of my ideas I find that people have discredited have only been by the information I give ing my which I am trying my very best to assist so a proper understanding can be given but due to the struggling of my speaking skills (due to my autism) I sometimes word things in ways that in fact would be problematic. Building my own house on someone's land without permission is a big no no. Same with fishing, hunting, carrying a knife openly, certainly a gun without a license, etc. I have been researching this plan since I was a wee lad and anytime I find a new issue I either re-plan or come up with a new on that would work. It's all about adaptation and finding what I can and cannot do.

I think the biggest misguided information is from others who simply feel that I am looking for a piece of land so far that my body will never be found when God calls me home. In the UK I doubt that will ever happen unless I find a deep cave or my body goes off into the sea or something. Every piece of land has a visitor eventually. It may not be right in front of my homestead but within a yelling radius people come.

Loch Treig as I mentioned is perfect because the nearest people are about an hour+ away. That is more than far enough. If someone want's an alaskan style where it would be hundreds if not thousands of miles away then sure you may never be found or seen again BUT there is nothing wrong with living like Ken on Loch Treig. No one will probably ever see him out there unless they purposely go looking and that is fine by me as well

 

[Paul_B]

Can I just point out that the ordnance survey once did a survey of UK to work out the most remote location in terms of furthest point from any sign of human existence. It was I believe a place in the North of Scotland and the distance from the nearest sign of human inhabitation / existence was 7 miles! That's 7 miles from the nearest road, building, electricity pylon, fence, wall, former croft, etc.

Add to the fact most places near a Loch are probably places people pass by or actually visit. The hermit of treig had visitors and walkers passed by regularly. He was not hiding as such. His home was not a stealthy one. He was very unlikely to have lived there long before he was known as living there. Like he was found years after living there so the landowner let him off. It's probably the fact he got lucky with his spot in that the landowner wasn't bothered by him living there.

If this is your goal then you need to think less on hiding and more on building relationships with landowners in order to find one willing to help you. Perhaps you might be lucky that one landowner might know another who is OK with your plans. Kind of passing you around or suggesting others until you find your compassionate landowner who's willing support you in your plans.

I do not know all this for sure only the 7 miles to the remotest location bit. But I reckon I won't be far from the reality of your aims. I wish you luck and hope you'll find good advice that helps you. I'd listen to people on here though. Some very knowledgeable people on here.

 

[Tengu]

Id like to know how the Loch Trieg guy got permission to chop down so many (obviously farmed) trees to build a cabin.

 

[Woody girl]

I don't find you very inconhereant, in fact you are very clear for someone such as yourself. We've certainly had far far worse here once or twice!
If you think we are misguiding you, please don't. We are only concerned that you realy understand what the realities are in the UK.
It's not to put you off, or misguide you, in fact it's the opposite. We want to make sure you really understand properly, before you commit yourself.
Toddy lives in Scotland, and is a real scot, so take her advice seriously, as she has a lifetime of experience and two sons. So she realy knows the score.
Tengu has offered you to visit her in the summer, and she will help you for sure. You would probably like it there and learn a lot.
You say you have a job planned, make sure you have somewhere to live too, apartments are not cheap and everyone is fighting for them, they are overpriced too.
Thing is, Scotland is the place most people dream of getting away from it all, and londoners( and others are flocking there, with wads of cash in their pockets from selling their London homes, which are far more expensive than Scottish ones, and pricing local people out of even the rental market.
To own a gun, you have to have a permanent address, and a gun locker. Which would not be possible living wild, unless you had many thousands of pounds to buy your own home, (£20.000, won't be enough for sure) whether that be a croft or not. Sadly
I think it won't be quite as simple as you believe.
Laws change all the time, and even some areas that allowed wild camping before covid are now cracking down on wild camping, and rv camping.
If it was as easy as you imagine many more of us would be doing it for sure.
That's not to try putting you off, but only to make sure you understand the task you have set yourself in it's fullness.
It's actualy easier to go to Bali and live like you want than Scotland!

 

[Souledman]

Ken Smith of Treig is not unique it seems:

Splendid isolation: in search of Scotland's hermits

Many isolated people have struggled in lockdown, but others enjoy solitude and choose it as a way of life. Here, Elliot Caunce portrays four modern hermits who live off the grid in Scotland

www.theguardian.com

 

[Toddy]

I see seventeen mugs in that photo of Ken Smith, the supposed 'hermit' of Loch Treig.
To me that looks like he gets a lot of visitors. I get a fair amount and there are only fourteen mugs in my kitchen, and I'm no hermit.

All four of those hermits in the Guardian article travel for supplies. Two drive, two walk and then take the train.

 

[Woody girl]

The age is telling. They are not youngsters. They have pensions to live off, and probably some savings too.

 

[Toddy]

@Woody girl

Oh good point. I hadn't thought of that.
An active choice, kind of thing.

Lots of folks live fairly solitary though; for some they're just not comfortable with a lot of people around, others just don't like being reliant on anyone else.
We're all different. We still need shelter, food, etc., though.

 

[Woody girl]

Yes, I have a fairly solitary life. My best friend has moved to new Zealand for six months to spend winter with her daughter and grandkids. I'm missing her for sure, but I have not actualy spoken to another human face to face for about a week.
My other friend J has taken to her bed and not answering texts since Friday last. She has ptsd due to abuse from her ex for many years, and she sometimes can't face things. So I haven't spoken to her either.
Waiting patiently for her to surface.
Other than that, I'm quite solitary, though I do enjoy company. Can't face crowds of people though, a pub is out of the question for me! I like one or two people around, no more or I get antsy. A result of two years shielding over covid. I try, but I just realy like to be alone more than in a crowd.
Perhaps I should move to Scotland too!