Tell me what i'm doing wrong at sharpening (video)

[Folcwigga]

I made a thread a few months back about how i was having a hard time of learning to sharpen knives and other blades just by watching videos or reading books. Since then i haven't been able to get to any meets, so instead i've made a video of my attempts at sharpening. It's short (under 4 mins) so have a look and let me know what i'm doing wrong or how i can improve.

[video=youtube;Z3786QGBdjQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3786QGBdjQ&feature=yo utu.be[/video]

 

[homesicksteve]

Perhaps use the 'sharpie' method to set your bevel angle :

http://www.tomonagura.com/honing-straight-razors/the-sharpie-test.html

Also consider sharpening until (and only until ) you raise a burr on the opposite side of the bevel. Same number of stokes both sides.

For finishing a leather strop loaded with polishing compound works really well.

'hope of some help...

 

[MongooseDownUnder]

As a very experienced knife sharpener I will tell you a couple of things. Firstly the exact angle isn't important as long as the angle is consistently the same, remember though the thinner the edge the more easily it will get damaged. Secondly I would advise you to sharpen away from the cutting edge. That is sharpen with the cutting edge trailing behind instead of leading with the cutting edge. The reason for this is the edge does have the tendency to bite into the stone a little bit causing a rounding off of your knife edge. Hope these tips help.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Tapatalk

 

[Folcwigga]

Perhaps use the 'sharpie' method to set your bevel angle :

http://www.tomonagura.com/honing-straight-razors/the-sharpie-test.html

Also consider sharpening until (and only until ) you raise a burr on the opposite side of the bevel. Same number of stokes both sides.

Thanks, but i don't understand what the sharpie is supposed to be helping me with here?

As a very experienced knife sharpener I will tell you a couple of things. Firstly the exact angle isn't important as long as the angle is consistently the same, remember though the thinner the edge the more easily it will get damaged. Secondly I would advise you to sharpen away from the cutting edge. That is sharpen with the cutting edge trailing behind instead of leading with the cutting edge. The reason for this is the edge does have the tendency to bite into the stone a little bit causing a rounding off of your knife edge. Hope these tips help.

Funnily enough i thought pushing the blade along the stone edge first was one of the few things i'd definitely got right. Everywhere i checked was advising me to do it that way. I do get the angle comment, and think i had the angle consistent but the blade had just stopped getting any sharper. Could that be due to either the quality of the blade or the coarseness (600 grit) of my stone, or is it solely down to my technique?

 

[homesicksteve]

Thanks, but i don't understand what the sharpie is supposed to be helping me with here?

The idea is that the marker pen helps you sharpen at the right angle, and be consistent along the length of the bevel. :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kzGvtX-h8g

 

[Shinken]

Hello mate,

You probably started too coarse, 200 grit should only be used to get some major dings out. Even the 600 is too coarse if you sharpen your knives just as they dull. I think your method of angle finding is fine and its a good starting point, and you can allways drop/raise the edge to change the angle from there.

So i see nothing much wrong with technique apart from two things, for now slow it down a bit. And the other would be raising the handle slighly as you get to the tip. Slowing down will help you see this. If you keep the knife at the same angle you will see that the curve near the tips angle will change unless you raise the butt of the knife. This is the trikiest bit to master. Maybe try it again and re-post for some more help

Hope that helps, i am not the clearest writer

 

[Ogri the trog]

Yup, What he said!

Get some finer stones (or abrasive paper, ceramic sticks/plates) etc.

Slow down

... And really think about the line of steel molecules that make up your cutting edge.

After slamming the edge onto the surface of the sharpening block (1 minute 10 seconds) I am surprised that it still cuts as well as it does - even after the few strokes on various surfaces.

Keep pushing the edge forward when working on a stone to avoid a condition called "fish mouth" where the burrs from two sides curl around to enclose what should be the edge of your blade.

Finally make yourself a strop - any piece of leather, thick fabric or a strip of cardboard that you can smear with fine abrasive paste and polish the edge by drawing the blade (edge trailling as you are removing much less material) and getting a very fine edge. However, go very carefully as a slip-jointed knife will tend to want to snap closed when being stropped and could easily close onto your fingers!

When you try the edge again, cut the paper slowly to show you where along the edge needs more work and try it both left & right handed to ensure the blade is sharp from both sides - it might sound strange but you may only be producing a burr on one side that makes the blade appear sharp but when used the other way around still feels blunt as a spoon!

Good luck

Ogri the trog

 

[Folcwigga]

Thanks for the feedback all! I'll have another go and post up a video with the results and a bit more of my technique and see if i've improved much. Give me a day or two.

Matt

 

[Shinken]

Also mate, all credit to you for asking for help mate and admitting on puplic forum that you have not quite got it right. We can all learn from that.

 

[Folcwigga]

Wow, i really need to keep track of time better! I hadn't realised it had been so long. Anyway, a few new videos of me having a go at it. If i knew a bit more about editing i could edit them all into 1 short video, but as i don't instead they will be in 3 very short videos.

First an example of my technique on the stone i have:
[video=youtube;TLTnZuIiwzg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLTnZuIiwzg[/video]

 

[Folcwigga]

Then my improvisation with a cup:
[video=youtube;8vBSRE6kKPE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vBSRE6kKPE[/video]

 

[Folcwigga]

Lastly my homemade strop and cutting tests:
[video=youtube;sjBYUj78oho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjBYUj78oho[/video]

 

[Folcwigga]

Also mate, all credit to you for asking for help mate and admitting on puplic forum that you have not quite got it right. We can all learn from that.

Cheers mate. I've always thought there's no point trying to get advanced in anything til you've got a handle on the basics, and right now i haven't.

 

[Shinken]

It says the video is private?

 

[Steve27752]

It says the video is private?

That's the message that I am seeing.

 

[Folcwigga]

I must be getting old. I changed the settings on the videos weeks back and thought i had posted to let everyone know, but the post was just being ignored...

 

[Ogri the trog]

Like you said - it's getting there!

The actual number of strokes on the strop doesn't matter - if it needs more, it gets more!

Try also using the cardboard from a cereal packet - not corrugated - and use a metal polish, (Brasso, chrome polish, Solvol Autosol etc.) - toothpaste is ok in a dire emergency but its not brilliant at removing steel.

Finally, read this again...

When you try the edge again, cut the paper slowly to show you where along the edge needs more work and try it both left & right handed to ensure the blade is sharp from both sides - it might sound strange but you may only be producing a burr on one side that makes the blade appear sharp but when used the other way around still feels blunt as a spoon!

If your edge is sharp, it will not need to be used at speed (like a chopping motion) to cut paper; and if you use the entire length of the blade you will be able to tell where it needs more work

And like I said before
Good Luck

Ogri the trog

 

[Folcwigga]

Like you said - it's getting there!

The actual number of strokes on the strop doesn't matter - if it needs more, it gets more!

Try also using the cardboard from a cereal packet - not corrugated - and use a metal polish, (Brasso, chrome polish, Solvol Autosol etc.) - toothpaste is ok in a dire emergency but its not brilliant at removing steel.

Finally, read this again...



If your edge is sharp, it will not need to be used at speed (like a chopping motion) to cut paper; and if you use the entire length of the blade you will be able to tell where it needs more work

And like I said before
Good Luck

Ogri the trog

Thanks.

Since those videos i've gone out and bought a leather belt so i can now strop with something a bit more effective than cardboard! I took the SAK in this video and stropped it a number of times until it got to the point where i could actually pull it through a piece of paper slowly and it would cut. On my arm, with a little bit of pressure and the right angle, it also cuts hair now. On the other hand, doing the paper test with it left handed tells me the centre and tip are as sharp, but the lower part of the blade on that side just catches the paper and tears it. I'm not sure how to remedy this, or if it's even worth the effort?

Also, now this little blade has somewhat of an edge i'm looking at sharpening some other blades - mainly a cooks knife that has gone blunt and a folding knife i bought blunt abroad. Both are considerably thicker than the SAK. The message i took away from the posts here was that stropping is the most important thing unless there's a dink or real problem with the blade, so should i just strop both until they get sharper, or use the stone/cup until they get to a certain point, then switch to the leather belt?

Thanks again.

 

[Shinken]

Much better technique now matey. To get it to the next level of sharpness all is needed is a finer stone (assuming you dont have that) maybe the cup is doing that though, never tried it myself.

so should i just strop both until they get sharper, or use the stone/cup until they get to a certain point, then switch to the leather belt?

Its important to go through the stages and sharpen them if they are blunt. Once sharp they can be stropped to regain the edge before they go blunt at the point that they feel less sharp. Hope that makes sense.

If they are too thick at the edge then no matter how well you sharpen the edge to infinity they wont cut. A lot of kitchen knives are poorly designed and too thick at the edge. If its a veg knife then it will want to be as thin at the edge as the sak then sharpened like the sak. It might be worth using a belt sander to thin it down as it might take some time on even a course stone (unless it is really soft steel)

 

[Robson Valley]

My edge management makes my tools "carving sharp."
I can only describe what I do and how I was taught.
1. Establish, right now, what the bevel angles will be for the edges that you use.
2. Draw those angles on large cards which will stand before you as you sharpen.
My cards are 6, 10, 12, 20, 28 and 30 degrees. My kitchen cleavers and $100 knives are 20 (total)
so 10 degrees per side, and so on for all the others. My bone cleaver is 1/4" thick and 40 degrees.

Your video.
Stand up.
Set the stone (why a stone? Is the edge buggered up that badly?) parallel to the edge of the bench.
Paint the bevels with black felt marker so that you can see where the metal is coming off.
Set the needed angle card up. Match that with the blade angle.
Lock your elbows/forearms to your sides.
Pull stroke with your whole body. Stop. Lift. Back to the start. Down again but on the other side.
Go again.
== = = =
What I see you do in the video is that you sit and raise your elbows in each pass (forward is silly.)
The direct result is that as your elbows come up, you roll the bevel edge to something unusable like 40+ degrees.
You have to stop doing that so stand up and hold your arms tight to your sides. Whole body sway, no less.

Best strop on the planet is cereal box cardboard and honing compound.
Don't let the "Scary Sharp" disciples fool you = masking tape, a flattihs surface and you're good-to-go.

I have only a couple dozen gouges and about the same crooked knives in Pacific Northwest pattern/design.
Add a few planer knives and some adzes and they are all as sharp as keeps me happy.