Tarpology Knots

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C_Claycomb

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Oct 6, 2003
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when erecting a tarp, should you use Para cord or some other ridge line BTW.???
I think Decorum means that any cord can be made to work, and paracord will work. However, I read your question as asking whether paracord is ideal or not, and in my opinion it is not if you set up the way I do. As a ridgeline I find that it stretches a lot more than I want, so that if you have more than 0.5m between your tarp and your tree, you can lose a lot of head room either when you tension out your guy-lines, or when the whole lot gets wet. Wet nylon stretches more easily than dry nylon, which already has a lot of stretch.

Mind you, plenty of people use bungee cord to set up tarps without knots...

550 Paracord (generally sold by Tony at the Moots, if you are coming) is far better than the cheap generic paracord you get in high street camping shops. Accessory cord is better than paracord, but it too stretches quite a bit, and if you go up to 4mm it starts to weigh a lot.

The nice thing about paracord and accessory cord is that if you buy some, because its what you can find economically and expediently, to practice with for one or two trips, then eventually find something else you want to use, the paracord/accessory cord will have loads of other uses around your camp, in your packing, or to repair/modify gear.
 

decorum

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May 2, 2007
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I think Decorum means that any cord can be made to work, ...
Indeed.

Plus a good healthy dose of experimenting to see what works, why it works, gaining an understanding of the various pro's con's and trade-off's of the different ways and types ~ and a major dose of knowing that there's not an ultimate, singular, way of 'doing' which covers all eventualities. It's also important to know and understand, why the same very lack of stretch which gives Dyneema it's potential for superior use for a ridge-line can make for a devastating guy-line :yikes:

But you said it much better :D
 

C_Claycomb

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Oct 6, 2003
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I think you said it pretty well, but thought it might be a little too Zen for someone starting out ;)

...so, you think that there might be a problem with my using black, 1.75mm Dyneema guylines on my green tarp at the Moot? They only remove the heads from a certain height of child when they run through my camp...very selective...or perhaps you were thinking of another thing altogether.:evilangel:
 

decorum

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May 2, 2007
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I think you said it pretty well, but thought it might be a little too Zen for someone starting out ;)
I'd written more, but thought it too wordy :eek: .


...so, you think that there might be a problem with my using black, 1.75mm Dyneema guylines on my green tarp at the Moot? They only remove the heads from a certain height of child when they run through my camp...very selective...or perhaps you were thinking of another thing altogether.:evilangel:

I was thinking more of the issue DD had when folks used dyneema for guys on their (then) new tarp ;) :yikes: IIRC they ended up having to remove/cut some of the guying points to alleviate the problem :( .

Sometimes good bits of kit don't combine well and if your sole preoccupation is 'what's the best?' without understanding how it does what it does then you can get poor performance ~ and rather than understanding that all kit and techniques have pro's and con's we tend to label the kit/techniques as 'no good!'. It's far easier to blame something, or someone, else than try to see why, exactly and specifically, it/they failed to meet expectations ;)
And, from practical experience, it doesn't matter how thick or colourful a rigging line is, kids won't see them! :rofl: And it's almost de rigueur to unintentionally set them at a height to remove a brimmed hat :evilangel:
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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Ehm….it's a known problem, but to my certain knowledge Chris has literally hundreds (if not thousands) of pictures to recover, re-store, re-organise and re-post, when he can find some time.

I can't see it happening quickly.

M
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
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Ehm….it's a known problem, but to my certain knowledge Chris has literally hundreds (if not thousands) of pictures to recover, re-store, re-organise and re-post, when he can find some time.

I can't see it happening quickly.

M
Correct and its making many, many Forums far less attractive to visit, which is probably the reason Photobuckit pulled the plug as I've certainly never paid them a penny to put up a picture be it for the interest of others or to sell something. When you look at it like that you really can't blame them for wanting a piece of the action?

K
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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No, we can't, but that said, this was not in any agreement folks made with them when they used photobucket to host their images either.

M
 

Ogri the trog

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Apr 29, 2005
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As another "Bushmoot Knot Demonstrator" stripping away the Photobucket links from the original posts still leaves a lot of good information and by using the knot names in "Youtube" and "Gregs Animated" examples should be plain enough. However, like Chris mentions, the exact versions are difficult to find or explain - again like Chris I modify many of my knots to become "Slippery" or "Quick Release".

For the last few years I have been one of several people running a tarp and knot workshop at the BushcraftUK summer Bush Moot. More than once I have wished that I had pictures that I could post of the knots that we demonstrate, to make it easier for people to go away and practice at home. The internet is absolutely loaded with knot web pages, bushcraft and tarp demos and many excellent Youtube videos, but despite searching, I couldn't find examples of all the exact knots I use.

Ideally all knots are tied to be quick release, meaning that they come apart when you want with just a tug on the free end, even after they have been worked on by wind and water.

Anchoring

Evenk Hitch on Youtube

Falconer's knot on Youtube

Tension

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWhQfrepMFE&feature=related


More often these days I use a modified version of the Trucker's Hitch, originally shown to me on one of Mors Kochanski's courses. It needs more spare distance between trees, but only requires you to wrap around the tree one time, which I find easier and faster.

Attaching Tarp to Ridge

This method was shown to me by Jed Yarnold of TrueNorth Outdoors and allows for flexibility in how you set up your tarp, speed and efficiency for both erecting and packing up.

Short lengths of line, about 60cm, or double the distance from elbow to finger tips, are attached to the tarp ridge loops using a simple Lark's Head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_hitch). 3mm accessory cord works well, but in this case I have used 550 paracord with the cores removed, which allows it to flatten out and grip even better.

Guy Lines

I started using Excel Pro Racing Line, pre-stretched polyester sailing line (http://www.sailboats.co.uk/Product~Marlow_2mm_Excel_Pro__30M_Mini_Spool_KF0149.html)
for guy lines a few years ago and have been very happy with it.

This was the only thing on here that I came up with almost by myself, having only see the very neat, but permanently installed, tubing tensioners used on Jacksrbetter tarps.
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/DSC00368 - web Small.JPG
which can be made like this:
http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearTarpTensioner2.html

Conclusion

So, there are the knots that we demo at the Bushmoot each year :) I hope that this hasn’t all been showing Grandma how to suck eggs. If anyone has photo series showing what they think would be a better, faster, easier or more secure way of doing any of these jobs, please post away :D

Cheers all.
The guy line knot looks like a variant of the Farrimond friction hitch, but slightly different if that helps

have a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farrimond_friction_hitch

I might be?


I really like the idea of the self tensioning guys Thanks

Day
... The key thing that I try to put across at each demonstration is that to become "Good" at knots, you must practice to become confident and only after lots of practice do you get to the point where you find what suits you own M.O. or modify whatever you want until it does suit!

Perhaps we need to get some Youtube/BCUK tutorials made.

ATB

Ogri the trog
 

C_Claycomb

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Oct 6, 2003
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It is on my do-list for this week. I want to get it done this weekend actually, but just mucked something up in the work shop that is going to take some unexpected work to fix...things sent to try us!
 

Robson Valley

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Nov 24, 2014
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Ogri: you got it right = practice the knots that you need to have for the things that you do. Be selective for the knots that are useful to what you do.
Some claimed that my use of a "sheep-shank" was worthless. Wrong. All told, I use maybe a dozen?

When you back-splice a 3-strand rope, the very first step is a "crown knot". Laugh all you want, it's a simple knot that I can never memorize!

There's no global standard for common names for knots. Not quite as bad as the synonyms for pasta shapes.
I use Des Pawson's "KNOTS. The Complete Visual Guide," a reference that most people should be able to find.
 

C_Claycomb

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Oct 6, 2003
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Bedfordshire
Done. Fortunately I have all the pictures I uploaded stored in their own folder, and they are all quite small, sub 200kb, so no need to fetch off PB, and they upload pretty fast. Hope it is continuing to be useful.

Still, I am thinking very evil thoughts about PB right now.:censored:

Can't believe that this thread is 6 years old! Where has all that time gone!
 
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C_Claycomb

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Oct 6, 2003
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Bedfordshire
I found that I had some pictures of tarp set ups too, they might as well go in here now :)

These are all things that were done with a 4x3m Truenorth tarp.
PICT2959 by Last Scratch, on Flickr

PICT2938 by Last Scratch, on Flickr

DSC_4478 by Last Scratch, on Flickr

img_0472 by Last Scratch, on Flickr

Same from another view.
img_0489 by Last Scratch, on Flickr

img_0525 by Last Scratch, on Flickr

PICT1828 by Last Scratch, on Flickr

Littletarp2 by Last Scratch, on Flickr


img_4994 by Last Scratch, on Flickr
 

Nice65

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Apr 16, 2009
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No, we can't, but that said, this was not in any agreement folks made with them when they used photobucket to host their images either.

M
The retro pic switch off and the lack of communication is what really annoys me.

Chris, some nice tarp pics there. I'm ok with paracord as a ridgeline as it takes the prussics well. Mine has been stretched so hard I don't think I'll get sag anymore.