Tactical?

[Wildgoose]

Tactical MOLLE Toilet Roll Holder

Designed to keep your toliet roll clean and dry and close to hand, this MOLLE toilet roll pouch will fit easily to your belt loop,

www.cadetdirect.com

An interesting item for sure and a good example. The use of “tactical - Molle” suggests that this is something that should be carried on your armour/vest, probably between your tactical knife and sidearm-

But

if they called it “outdoors - camping” instead, changed the mil tec patch for a glow in the dark one I can see a use for it hanging in a outdoor toilet. Add a clip for hand sanitizer and you have a useful product.
Or make it out of canvas with leather fittings and call it “bushcraft”, you could charge 4x the price then

 

[Wildgoose]

Officers use to think strategic,
lower ranks think tactical.

Obviously the stuff is meant for less intelligent people.

Real military equipment, constructed or just ordered by military head quarters, is sold as cheap military surplus or also in new conditions or even brand new with NATO stock number. It looks different and is made in different qualities.
That's for the more intelligent guys.

I don’t agree that lower ranks are any less intelligent than officers.
As for the intelligent guys using army surplus? The intelligent guys use the best tool for the job in hand...

 

[Erbswurst]

Was a joke. Of course you can't say that.
In a conscription army it's often the opposite.

 

[Suffolkrafter]

I guess some choose 'tactical' or military style kit because they identified something of decent or good enough quality which fits a need. Others enjoy military style kit perhaps in the same that a model train enthusiast enjoys model trains. I don't think the latter qualifies as walting. Just niche. Live and let live, I say.
Only tactical thing I've ever bought was a pack with molle on it, as I wanted to try out the molle system. Molle turned out not to be as life changing as I expected, but it is nevertheless a very good pack. Not as good as an osprey, but not far off.

 

[TLM]

I have 3 Helikon pants and I am fairly satisfied with them for their purpose. Their "tactical" trekking shorts are just about the best I have met so far.

Generals think strategy
Captains think tactics
Grunts think food and shelter

 

[Athos]

Officers use to think strategic,
lower ranks think tactical.

Obviously the stuff is meant for less intelligent people.

Real military equipment, constructed or just ordered by military head quarters, is sold as cheap military surplus or also in new conditions or even brand new with NATO stock number. It looks different and is made in different qualities.
That's for the more intelligent guys.

Intelligent people know most things with an NSN were made by the lowest bidder.

 

[TLM]

Intelligent people know most things with an NSN were made by the lowest bidder.

While mil surplus scores quite high on relative price scale on an absolute scale not usually so or at least the placing jumps up and down.

 

[Tengu]

Shall we discuss Museum grade now?

 

[lostplanet]

Honestly I see so many things being sold in the civilian market with the word ' Tactical ' affixed to the descriptions, to ask what does Tactical mean in a civilian context?

Is it just a sales buzz word like the word ' Professional ' and ' Pro ' was some years ago or is there some real benefits to be obtained from something listed as Tactical ?

Answer = airsoft, films, computer games, books, TV, internet = sales

 

[Laurentius]

Because military surplus is too old school and conjures up images of musty smelling canvas and loose stitching (which maybe has an ironic hipster appeal) Tactical in marketing seems to scream out "special forces", "covert operations", cos you know Heroes of Telemark is so old school and even Rambo is a pensioner now. Who knows what might be all the rage on the bushcraft catwalks next year, Bob the builder chic perhaps or retro Highland ghillie clobber.

 

[spandit]

To me, tactical stuff is either black or in a muted shade, to be camouflaged. This makes it good for bushcraft if you don't like standing out in woodland. It also tends to be quite rugged and therefore heavy. Generally rectangular in shape (for bags) so you can organise them on a plate carrier, for example.

I don't find MOLLE/PALS particularly useful on rucksacks as they tend to make them poorly balanced and even heavier. I have a tactical rucksack (5.11 Rush 24) and it's great, but not lightweight. If I wanted something to bounce about in the back of a vehicle and be thrown on the ground if I'm being shot at, then it's perfect, but overkill for what I actually need.

 

[C_Claycomb]

That Kifaru Zulu is a lot like you describe your Rush 24. Thrown in the bottom of a canoe for a week to wash around with sand and grit, no problem, back of a Hilux in the desert getting coated in dust with three other people's gear thrown on top, no worries. With the "load chair" accessory, it was all strong enough to carry another adult person!

Some of you might remember Stuart who used to post here. The Zulu was actually his and while loads of his gear was as light as he could get, he liked the 1000D Cordura durability of those tactical bags. They formed a tough shell around his lighter and more delicate gear.

 

[Erbswurst]

Is the British army equipment really so bad? Most German army equipment I find in surplus shops is very well made in Germany an Austria and a bit in Swizzerland too. Doesn't look especially cheap.

 

[TeeDee]

"
Honestly I see so many things being sold in the civilian market with the word ' Tactical ' affixed to the descriptions, to ask what does Tactical mean in a civilian context?

Is it just a sales buzz word like the word ' Professional ' and ' Pro ' was some years ago or is there some real benefits to be obtained from something listed as Tactical ?"

I think there is a distinct difference between Surplus military equipment and the use of the term "tactical" in sales speak - Tactical seems to be the current 'pulled pork' of the cuisine world.

Most bits of kit or equipment can have Tactical thrown in front - Tactical pen , Flashlight , Tactical Pillow , I guess it just sounds a bit edgy and operatoresque.

 

[TLM]

As to camo uniforms Leka people think quite highly of British one, they have seen them from all over the world.

 

[Athos]

Is the British army equipment really so bad? Most German army equipment I find in surplus shops is very well made in Germany an Austria and a bit in Swizzerland too. Doesn't look especially cheap.

It’s not, but if you’re buying it privately I’d think twice as you don’t have the benefit of a stores system supporting you. When you can just go and replace a worn item at stores then it’s not such an issue if the quality is somewhat lower. Quality has waned though, if I compare my issued Bergen from the early 2000’s, I find the materials used feel a lot more durable than the current kit.

 

[spandit]

It’s not, but if you’re buying it privately I’d think twice as you don’t have the benefit of a stores system supporting you. When you can just go and replace a worn item at stores then it’s not such an issue if the quality is somewhat lower. Quality has waned though, if I compare my issued Bergen from the early 2000’s, I find the materials used feel a lot more durable than the current kit.

I suppose it's a trade off between making something lighter rather than more rugged. Perhaps a modern tour of duty isn't expected to be as long as it was in the past? Maybe the materials used are stronger? Don't know. I've never been in the forces but seeing some of the 50's canvas webbing pouches that I have, I bet they're glad of the synthetic stuff...

 

[spandit]

Is it just a sales buzz word like the word ' Professional ' and ' Pro ' was some years ago or is there some real benefits to be obtained from something listed as Tactical ?"

It's partly a buzzword but it describes a certain look, which is difficult to accurately define. That toilet roll holder, for example. It's not an issue piece of kit (as far as I know) but it wouldn't look too out of plate attached to a military rucksack and doesn't look as if it will fall apart too easily (despite being MilTec, which is generally poorly made). You could strap it down so it won't fall off if you're running about and diving for cover, something that one generally wouldn't do in a bushcraft scenario, which I picture as far more slow pace and relaxed.

 

[Erbswurst]

@Athos
Of course there are a few exceptions like the exclusively German made Ortlieb products, the Hilleberg tents and other high end brands, but generally most civil trekking equipment, also the tacticool stuff and especially this, hasn't half the build quality as the issued NATO equipment I have seen. Most of that stuff would fall in pieces within just one year of continuous use.

I easily can get the complete Osprey / PLCE MTP system in Germany for example, also unissued for incredibly low prices. It's cheaper as if I would buy my outdoor equipment from Aldi and Lidl. No problem with replacement pieces, no problem at all.
For sure the better deal than investing the same amount of money into civil equipment, if we talk about buying a complete equipment in one rush.

Don't forget that the stuff gets treated far more carefully in civil use.
I don't throw my rucksack out of a lorry.

I could carry raw eggs in it and most of them would survive.

 

[Athos]

@Athos
Of course there are a few exceptions like the exclusively German made Ortlieb products, the Hilleberg tents and other high end brands, but generally most civil trekking equipment, also the tacticool stuff and especially this, hasn't half the build quality as the issued NATO equipment I have seen. Most of that stuff would fall in pieces within just one year of continuous use.

I easily can get the complete Osprey / PLCE MTP system in Germany for example, also unissued for incredibly low prices. It's cheaper as if I would buy my outdoor equipment from Aldi and Lidl. No problem with replacement pieces, no problem at all.
For sure the better deal than investing the same amount of money into civil equipment, if we talk about buying a complete equipment in one rush.

Don't forget that the stuff gets treated far more carefully in civil use.
I don't throw my rucksack out of a lorry.

I could carry raw eggs in it and most of them would survive.

Of course, it’s all relative isn’t it. Comparatively surplus military kit is way better than what you can pick up new for a similar price. But then compare a plce Bergen to something made by Kifaru, Hill People Gear etc. it just doesn’t compare. But then the prices are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I guess it’s all about the best kit for the price point and how well you pack your eggs Surplus gear does stack up well and I agree that I’d much rather have something with an NSN than a cheaply made tacticool product.