Sword ban - knee jerk time

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andy_e

Native
Aug 22, 2007
1,742
0
Scotland
What's next banning the ownership of blunt things!! Typical political solution, let's make ourselves look good by banning a minority item ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7139724.stm

... will axes be next? After all you don't *need* to own one.

I don't own and have no interest in owning a replica Samurai sword and I suppose they have had a tinge of realism in that they haven't banned genuine swords - not that I'm sure what constitutes a genuine Samurai sword.
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
Since I typically enter school premises with a Viking broadsword and Langseax or a Gladius and Spatha or now occasionally a Cutlass you can bet I'm watching this with a keen eye.

As usual politicians of all types chase the headlines and usually end up with bad legislation.

Well have to wait and see.
 

andy_e

Native
Aug 22, 2007
1,742
0
Scotland
I know this is a keenly watched issue for you Wayland and with good reason since your livelihood depends in part on being able to show these items from a historical perspective. I can only hope that since you are an individual vetted for your work with schools, that you would still be able to do so despite any further legal assery (did I just make that up?) from our elected representatives.
 

Mirius

Nomad
Jun 2, 2007
499
1
North Surrey
Political posturing to garner the approval of the masses who haven't the time nor inclination to realise that the existing legislation is more than adequate. I'm quite sure this will go ahead, and yes, it won't be long before axes are added to the list.
 

JohnC

Full Member
Jun 28, 2005
2,624
82
62
Edinburgh
"Responses include the suggestion that there should be defences for the carrying of weapons for martial
arts purposes to or from the place of training; weapons carried for historical re-enactment purposes either
to or from the place of enactment or any weapons carried for demonstration/ educational purposes for
assisting with lectures."

is in the document http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume...ons/cons-resp-banning-off-weapons?view=Binary

Does that mean the use of a knive/axe as a tool (ie in "bushcraft" activities) is still allowed?
 

Mirius

Nomad
Jun 2, 2007
499
1
North Surrey
I was under the impression that carrying of swords in public unless you had a specific (justifiable) reason was already illegal since they tend to be blades longer than 3". Exactly what is this piece of legislation intended to do?
 

ganstey

Settler
Imitation broom handles are to be banned after a spate of attacks in the UK, say ministers.

The Home Office has confirmed plans to outlaw the weapons in England and Wales after putting forward the idea earlier this year.

A Home Office minister said there was a clear danger to the public posed by easily-available pieces of wood.

The proposal is expected to stop short of banning genuine witch's broom handles held by wizards, witches, collectors or genuine enthusiasts.

In March 2007 the Home Office proposed banning imitation broom handles after representations from both MPs and the public. Ministers in Scotland had proposed a similar move in 1284.


Defending the brooms

Calls for a ban came after a number of high-profile incidents in which cheap imitation broom handles had been used as a cleaning implement.

The Home Office estimates there have been some 80 incidents in recent years involving broom handles, leading to at least five cases of woodworm.

While genuine broom handles are part of English history and change hands for large sums of money, there is a trade in imitation brooms which can be bought over the internet for as little as 35p.

Jail threat

Under the proposals, the government will ban the import, sale and hire of brooms from April 2008.

Anyone breaching the ban will face 100 lashes and a £5,000 fine.

However, ministers say they have recognised there is a special case for exemptions for genuine collectors of the original brooms and acknowledge there is a legitimate role for the handles in some forms of cleaning.

Vernon Coaker said: "In the wrong hands, brooms are dangerous weapons - there have been a number of high profile, serious incidents involving brooms in England and Wales in recent years.

"It is therefore crucial that we take this action to tackle the menace of indiscriminate cleaning.

"We recognise it is the cheap, easily available broom handles which are being used in crime and not the genuine, more expensive feather dusters which are of interest to collectors and household cleaning enthusiasts."

The Association of Chief Police Officers has backed the Home office move saying that while the broom is relatively uncommon, there is justification for a ban.

While genuine collectors such as museums will still be able to trade in brooms, it remains unclear what measures will be put in place to prevent people from buying cheap brooms via the internet, already considered a major marketplace for the handles.

:D


PS: I'm not condoning the actions of the sword-wielding criminals, nor belittling the affect those attacks had on the victims and their families. Just highlighting how stupid this whole story is.

G
 

Paganwolf

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 26, 2004
2,330
2
53
Essex, Uk
www.WoodlifeTrails.com
Sertain sharps are tools for wood etc and some are for chopping and killing people, I personally think its bloody stupid selling Swords of this kind in toot shops down Yarmouth high st ! Why would you need one :confused: ? they should be restricted to people with Marshal Arts licences to buy from a proper licenced shop and use them in the manner they are designed to be used,
A guy I know who used to work the door in a club in the Mile end road who had a Samurai sword stuck through him luckily he survived and another guy who i know from when i was an 'erbert had a row with a bloke in a pub then went out to his car got a samurai sword and killed the guy in the pub in a fit of anger,:tapedshut idiot, they are not needed on the streets, and they are easily obtained buy the scum we have walking the streets now. Im pretty sure that you shouldnt start burying your knives in the garden or hiding them in you lofts as the knives we use are Tools, like kitchen knives, but if you do feel worried post me all of your Alan Wood woodies and ill look after them for you :rolleyes: ;)
 

ganstey

Settler
Sertain sharps are tools for wood etc and some are for chopping and killing people, I personally think its bloody stupid selling Swords of this kind in toot shops down Yarmouth high st ! Why would you need one :confused: ? they should be restricted to people with Marshal Arts licences to buy from a proper licenced shop and use them in the manner they are designed to be used,

I understand where you're coming from, but as one who studies TaiJi (a martial art) I would like to learn one of the weapons forms ('cept I can't find a local teacher). Because TaiJi is considered more like Yoga than Karate there is no concept of licensing.

A guy I know who used to work the door in a club in the Mile end road who had a Samurai sword stuck through him luckily he survived and another guy who i know from when i was an 'erbert had a row with a bloke in a pub then went out to his car got a samurai sword and killed the guy in the pub in a fit of anger,:tapedshut idiot, they are not needed on the streets, and they are easily obtained buy the scum we have walking the streets now. Im pretty sure that you shouldnt start burying your knives in the garden or hiding them in you lofts as the knives we use are Tools, like kitchen knives, but if you do feel worried post me all of your Alan Wood woodies and ill look after them for you :rolleyes: ;)

Again, I understand what you're saying, but banning guns hasn't stopped people (most prominently teenagers in recent times) from being shot. The only difference that this law would make, if it became such, would be that the offender could additionally be charged with carrying them. Although I don't see how that is different from any other offensive weapon.

G
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
Sertain sharps are tools for wood etc and some are for chopping and killing people, I personally think its bloody stupid selling Swords of this kind in toot shops down Yarmouth high st ! Why would you need one :confused: ? they should be restricted to people with Marshal Arts licences to buy from a proper licenced shop and use them in the manner they are designed to be used, < Snip.

Excuse me. Would you mind telling me why I should learn a marshal art in order to protect my livelihood? :bluThinki

That perfectly demonstrates the problem with adding layer upon layer of legislation to an already adequate system.

I am not a marshal artist but I do have a legitimate reason to own, transport and display a sword.

The current legislation allows me to do so in the course of my professional life but, quite rightly, if I use the said swords for illegal purposes or even carry them while not having a good reason to do so then I am in breach of the law.

Would you mind telling me how yet another set of confused and contradictory legislation is going to impact on the already illegal use of such items, without making it more difficult for me to go about my legitimate business.
 
Sertain sharps are tools for wood etc and some are for chopping and killing people, I personally think its bloody stupid selling Swords of this kind in toot shops down Yarmouth high st ! Why would you need one :confused: ? they should be restricted to people with Marshal Arts licences to buy from a proper licenced shop and use them in the manner they are designed to be used,
A guy I know who used to work the door in a club in the Mile end road who had a Samurai sword stuck through him luckily he survived and another guy who i know from when i was an 'erbert had a row with a bloke in a pub then went out to his car got a samurai sword and killed the guy in the pub in a fit of anger,:tapedshut idiot, they are not needed on the streets, and they are easily obtained buy the scum we have walking the streets now. Im pretty sure that you shouldnt start burying your knives in the garden or hiding them in you lofts as the knives we use are Tools, like kitchen knives, but if you do feel worried post me all of your Alan Wood woodies and ill look after them for you :rolleyes: ;)


then why is it only imitation samuri swords shurely they will just move on to imitation claymores next then imitation spanish swords then imitation Hobbit swords etc etc etc ad infinitem maybe imitation sharp steel rules next
its the usual Bollo%s up of a legislation which does nothing

if some one wants to buy a shiny imitation cheap sword (maybe cant afford an original ) and put it on the wall why not if knives do get licenced are you restricted to one of eack kind
the nutter who has it in his car wont care he will just use something else (hes already ignoring the law )
God knows what the government will do once everything is illegal and people are still hurting and killing each other

statment on TV after teh boy got shot wit ha hand gun a while back by the minister not having a legal object to blame was " i thing its about time we looked into Illegal guns "
Well FCuk me i could hav told you that years ago before you destroyed an industry and thousands of peoples hobbies and still achieved nothing

or the waste of parlement time bannning Knives with a combat orented name just call the same knife a hunter and its legal :rolleyes: :lmao:
 

Soloman

Settler
Aug 12, 2007
514
19
55
Scotland
I agree totaly with Wayland and Fgyt on this knee jerk legistation.
This started with the hand gun ban and wasnt that a great triumph.
I was under the impression that a return to being responsable for one own actions was on the cards, not so.
The kind of person willing to kill or hurt with such a item will do so with anything avalable.
Its time to send a clear message to these people, but will the bleading hearts say that social issues are to blame and its only a cry for help.
Soloman.
 

Silverback

Full Member
Sep 29, 2006
978
15
England
There are no dangerous guns or knives; human intervention is required before they become so. If a person intends to do harm, the removal of his/her weapon of choice will act as little more than a stalling tactic. A person with a gun or sword and the mindset to use it to cause harm or death is not governed or restricted by the passing of laws
 
First of all, there is no legally recognised martial arts license. There are registration forms for clubs that are sometimes called licenses, but that's it.

This sword ban specifically bans imitation Samurai swords. Real samurai swords, (ie, pre 1940s or made by a licensed japanese swordsmith in japan) are not covered in this ban, nor are swords not of Japanese style.

I know the definition is not going to mean much to a cop, but it would hold up in court.

I own a substantial collection of Chinese swords, and they're all safe. :)

Edit: I still bristle at the removal of yet more freedoms of British people, of course. My whole club wrote snotty letters.
 

Paganwolf

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 26, 2004
2,330
2
53
Essex, Uk
www.WoodlifeTrails.com
Its all to easy to sit in comfey country homes griping about why they are banning Dangerous weapons that are easily obtained by joe public, the criminal element will always be able to source "Weapons" of what ever kind. As i said why the Fcuk would you want a Samurai sword? it screams of insicurity, Ok i can understand what you say wayland but if the police was to pull you up with your garb they wouldnt really say a thing eh and your swords are probably not cheap tacky immo ones from battle orders or a tacky seaside junk shop, if you have kids and they are reaching the age where they are going to go to pubs and clubs in the city what would you rather happen if a fight broke out them to defend them selves against a fist or a fegging big sword? as nicodimus says, legit ones are safe, im talking the 4' cheap swords that you can buy for 15 quid here.:rolleyes:
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
12,798
1,532
51
Wiltshire
Well, Im sure my To Ken member friend would be pleased

Hew was once called half way across the country to examine a `geniune` sword on offer.

It was not.

Its high time this country was ridded of such scrap (yes, and the non japanese too)
 

gregorach

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 15, 2005
3,723
28
50
Edinburgh
It does seem a bit pointless (if you'll forgive the pun) to restrict it to cheap knock-offs of a particular style of sword... But then again, nobody should be buying such tat in the first place, purely on grounds of good taste. ;)

So - exactly how curved does it need to be to count as a "samurai" sword? I expect a flood of cheap ninjatos on the market Real Soon Now...
 

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