Svord peasant knife for sale at Heinnie

[Black Sheep]

Just found that Heinnie are selling the Svord Peasant knives in the uk - Price £16.95

Look here .........

http://www.heinnie.com/product.asp?s=57ilzz245283&strParents=&CAT_ID=0&P_ID=4444

Richard

 

[Peter_t]

i like that! finaly an alternative to the opinel but i have one doubt,

'blade material : high carbon stainless'

seems to be a bit of BS going on here?

pete

 

[Ahjno]

Recently a GB (for the Peasant in orange) started here:

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44601

 

[welshwhit]

Yeah, the orange ones should be pretty cool, I have my name down for one on the other forum!

Bit cheaper too

Drew

 

[Matt.S]

i like that! finaly an alternative to the opinel but i have one doubt,

'blade material : high carbon stainless'

seems to be a bit of BS going on here?

pete

Not really, steel by definition must contain carbon, and stainless steel is only different in that it must also have a certain amount of chromium. To make a blade hard enough to be a useful knife a significant amount of carbon must be in the steel (a 'high carbon' steel) which allows the blade to be hardened (one of the stages of heat-treating). Therefore if you want to make a useful stainless steel knife you need a 'high carbon stainless' steel. (Of course here things get a little tricky because the chrome content affects other properties of the steel, but that's unimportant right now.)

 

[Still Waters]

I like that knife it reminds me of a cut throat razor

 

[Draven]

While I also hate it when something says "High Carbon Stainless" (It's one or the other; High Carbon and Stainless are categories, not recipes!) they come recommended by a lot of people over on BB, many of which will be much more picky than myself when it comes to HT and steel; so that's good enough for me! Should have one soon

Pete

 

[tobes01]

Oh I like, but I really don't need it - please make the shiny lust go away, must resist...

 

[Matt.S]

While I also hate it when something says "High Carbon Stainless" (It's one or the other; High Carbon and Stainless are categories, not recipes!) they come recommended by a lot of people over on BB, many of which will be much more picky than myself when it comes to HT and steel; so that's good enough for me! Should have one soon

Pete

I'm sorry Draven but I don't agree with you. Granted the term 'high carbon' is often used to refer to fairly plain steels (of course with up to or a little over 1% carbon) but to lump all 'stainless' steels into one big, all-encompassing bag to the exclusion of 'high carbon' is misleading. As I said before a steel knife -- whether it's made of 'stainless' steel or not -- needs a fairly large amount of carbon in it to be able to harden the steel. That's basic chemistry. What makes a steel 'stainless' is the presence of chromium, upwards of 13%.

Let's take 4 common grades of steel as examples: EN1, 1095, 304 and 440c.

EN1 is a 'mild' steel; it has a low carbon content of about 0.2%, very small amounts of various impurities such as sulfur and the balance is iron. There is little or no chromium. This is a cheap steel used for general purposes. For most intents and purposes it cannot be hardened. It will typically rust very easily.

1095 is a 'high carbon steel'. It has around 0.95% carbon, around 1% manganese, no chromium, the same very small amounts of various impurities and the baance as iron. Because of the carbon content this steel can be heat-treated to a variety of hardnesses, everything from very brittle down to knife-hard down to axe-hard down to springy and down a bit further. Again it will easily rust.

304 is a grade of stainless steel. It contains 0.08% carbon, 2% manganese, 0.75% silicon, 8-10.5% nickel and, crucially, 16-18% chromium. It can't be hardened but it is 'stainless'.

440c is a grade of high-carbon stainless steel, and suitable for making knives from. It contains around 1% carbon, 1% manganese, 1% silicon, a few other bits and bobs and 16-18% chromium. It can thus be hardened, tempered and annealed just like a 'plain' high carbon steel.

'High carbon' and 'stainless' are non-mutually-exclusive traits, not mutually-exclusive categories. Apolgies if this sounds preachy or condescending but it's just the way it is.

 

[Draven]

Sorry, I disagree. As I said, I'm perfectly well aware that stainless steels contain carbon. Stainless steel is a category of steels, and a perfectly acceptable category at that, as is High Carbon Steel. Combining the two terms is fundamentally misleading, because high carbon steels and stainless steels, generally, are very different, have different properties and generally work in different ways and are good for different things. I know that plenty of sellers do it specifically because it's slightly confusing for some people, since there's a big buzz around high carbon tool steels, and people think they're getting the best of both worlds, which they are usually not. I don't think that of Heinnie, though.

Pete

 

[Goatboy]

Hi Pete,

I try to explain it to folk in terms of bread and cake.

Think of the very basic ingredients for some of them. Flour, eggs, salt, sugar, yeast, water, milk etc. Now with that lot you can make basic standard bread, or if you fiddle about you can make a cake, or rolls, brownies, bagles, flat breads, dampers Oh a plethora of things. But you start with a set of base ingredients, differ the quantities and add heat then how you treat them and present them to get different things. Some breads I make could be cake like, when things go wrong some cakes taste more like bread. Then for all you Terry Pratchett lovers out there to whom bread can be a weapon lol. You can vary the different properties to get different end results - but when asked we all know what bread is, and what cake is. Steel and iron are pretty much the same, just different varieties with plethora of capabilities when mixed / treated different ways, same with plastics, wood, people.
But yeah I'm in the high carbon camp mainly as I love the properties, despite the percieved drawbacks. ( But then at Christmas I always serve mincemeat pies with strong cheese and my west coast friends think I'm weird :bluThinki )

Colin.

 

[Draven]

Howdy Colin,

I don't quite get what you're saying Carbon steel and stainless steel only need to have one ingredient in common, obviously excluding iron, and the added stuff to stainless does make a significant difference to every aspect of the steel. Bread and cake are very similar, but it would just confuse matters to call one Bread Cake or Cake Bread, as it confuses matters to say High Carbon Stainless. Carbon is a given in any steel, high carbon is certainly a given in a knife steel. Stainless is the significant part, just as you want people to know it's iced cake, not iced bread, similar though they may be.

Pete

 

[Graham_S]

I have a Svord fixed blade.
Fantastic knife.
If the steel in the peasant is the same as in the drop point then it'll be well worth having.
that knife takes an edge beyond razor sharp.

 

[Goatboy]

OK maybe it was a poo analogy, but it usually makes sense to folk, compounds with similar chemical composites when mixed in varying quantities can produce both similar and yet startlingly different physical properties, especially when treated with varying degrees of heat and working. Take carbon steel, if you laminate the structure and make a damascuss steel is it basic carbon steel, or something more beutifull and usefull, I know this is vast simplification but are we getting into semantics otherwise.
Maybe I'm seeing it too simply... They are different, but similar?
Cheers
Colin.

 

[Graham_S]

Check the review out from the Svord website
clicky and go to testimonials, then scroll down

 

[Draven]

OK maybe it was a poo analogy, but it usually makes sense to folk, compounds with similar chemical composites when mixed in varying quantities can produce both similar and yet startlingly different physical properties, especially when treated with varying degrees of heat and working. Take carbon steel, if you laminate the structure and make a damascuss steel is it basic carbon steel, or something more beutifull and usefull, I know this is vast simplification but are we getting into semantics otherwise.
Maybe I'm seeing it too simply... They are different, but similar?
Cheers
Colin.

Oh well if that's what you were trying to say I understand completely And that's how I feel too, with different being the key

Though damascus is no more useful

 

[Matt.S]

I see your point Draven but although 'high carbon' is commonly used to refer to plain (non-stainless) steels with around 1% carbon in certain groups of people, it's at best slightly misleading. To my mind 'high carbon' is a certain characteristic (i.e. containing somewhere between .7 and 1.2% carbon by weight), as is 'stainless' (over 13% chromium by weight). Yes the chromium does affect various aspects of the steel other than its corrosion resistance. That's why I generally prefer a non-stainless blade but that's besides the point.

I agree with you about possible ambiguity but the description is IMO correct.

 

[Draven]

I see your point Draven but although 'high carbon' is commonly used to refer to plain (non-stainless) steels with around 1% carbon in certain groups of people, it's at best slightly misleading. To my mind 'high carbon' is a certain characteristic (i.e. containing somewhere between .7 and 1.2% carbon by weight), as is 'stainless' (over 13% chromium by weight). Yes the chromium does affect various aspects of the steel other than its corrosion resistance. That's why I generally prefer a non-stainless blade but that's besides the point.

I agree with you about possible ambiguity but the description is IMO correct.

I definitely agree with you about actual carbon content, it is exceptionally misleading to describe any non-stainless as high carbon regardless of percentage, as it's simply not the case, so I do prefer low med and high carbon to be used.

I agree that it's technically correct, I just think that it is confusing to people who don't know about knifey stuff or steel stuff (I was one of 'em once, and was extremely confused by all the ebay knife kits claiming 'high carbon stainless' when I knew I wanted high carbon). In this case, it's really not a problem as I'm sure they'll receive an excellent knife out of it! And I don't believe Heinnie is trying to confuse people, either. It's just a pet peeve I guess!

Pete

 

[Black Sheep]

Look guy's I don't care about what mix is in the steel, never mind cakes and poo All I know is that Danzo over on BB must have imported over a 1000 of these and all those people can't be wrong.

(I have some very good Stainless knifes made by Frost and they keep a good edge)

I only posted this as i know a few people mentioned and interest in getting one.

I've got a couple coming from one of the BB group buys I'll let you know what I think of them

Richard

 

[Goatboy]

Though damascus is no more useful

LOL, maybe purtier???

I have some old basic High carbon steel kitchen kinves, that sit along with the global's in my eating room, The globals cost a fortune and I do love them, but will always use my old dark scarily sharp carbons as I love them even more.

GB