Aye but a good fire makes life a lot easier - boil water, dry clothes, cook food otherwise inedible, keep warm.
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
Aye but a good fire makes life a lot easier - boil water, dry clothes, cook food otherwise inedible, keep warm.
UK 3 couldnt had aid it better I am native American we are trained not to live by fire. It is a luxury, and so we dehyrate food, eat it raw, make sun brew teas. We eat small fish that can be dried in couple hours. We flatten out meat so much, it is like vey thin veal scallopini (MS), and so it dries in no time flat. Every Army manuels during war zone tells you not to use fire. To be a master of your enivornment you must live lke an animal, and no animal starts fires but mankind. If you do have good clothes, you will never need even shelter, just common since to sit under a conifer tree and get out of the wind, or find the windy spot in bug season, colder north shady side in summer, and sunny side during winter. Frank Lyod Wright taught to use the land and enviroment to built homes so the earth becomes a friend and not an enemy. Of course I will use a fire, but I always training to live without it. Because when the crap hits the fan and ww3 is out, a fire is your death. I urge anyone who is really trying to be prepared for the worst learn to live without fire. Yeah learn the skills but learn it like a compass, only as a back up plan not an essential. plus many places out west in america fies are a no no
But I will bet my left buttock that you had at least one stove on you Richard, and possibly more when getting your stove geek on!
Hey tommy
The only flint that ive found up here is in very small toffee colour pebbles on the Moray firth but we do get a fair bit of chert also I believe quarts is reasonably effective, pyrites now there’s another mater .
As I said to Billybob, Necessity is the mother of invention.
If the proverbial ever hit the fan the chances are the only thing and probably the handiest thing you would have is your boot lasses .It’s one thing I don’t understand in the 5 or less challenge why bother with para cord when you are wearing one and have a spare on the other boot.
No knife no problem, adapt or die stupid.
Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.
The only flint that ive found up here is in very small toffee colour pebbles on the Moray firth but we do get a fair bit of chert also I believe quarts is reasonably effective, pyrites now there’s another mater .
As I said to Billybob, Necessity is the mother of invention.
If the proverbial ever hit the fan the chances are the only thing and probably the handiest thing you would have is your boot lasses .It’s one thing I don’t understand in the 5 or less challenge why bother with para cord when you are wearing one and have a spare on the other boot.
No knife no problem, adapt or die stupid.
Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.
Last edited:
Used to find some good chunks of blue flint on the dunes at Findhorn, mostly used in the art scapes so just replaced with another rock
Wintertime we have over 16 hours of dark.
Sod that, I'm having a fire
Besides, "Survival = get the hell out asap. Bushcraft = Chill the hell out asap"
Toddy
Sod that, I'm having a fire
Besides, "Survival = get the hell out asap. Bushcraft = Chill the hell out asap
"Toddy
I like to boil my water for a cup of tea, don't see how else you can do that without flame.
I'm not in a war so I should be ok.
I'm not in a war so I should be ok.
Stop kidding yourself man, just look out the window, we are at war every day of our lives! you just don't get it do you:theyareon
A few months ago I watched my friend Giuliano make a bowdrill from wood harvested near camp and only using local rocks as tools. It was quite a production. He used a combination of loose rocks bashed into edges and larger standing rocks with useful sections. It took him well over an hour to carve out a simple fire set. As he was working I used my SAK Farmer to make a set from the same wood and it took about ten minutes. I did that just so we would have a point of reference.
For me the lesson was twofold. You can make a bowdrill here with smashed quartz. I have no doubt it was done that way in paleo-times here in Central Brazil due to the abundance of quartz. The second lesson was CARRY YOUR EDC KNIFE!!!! We concluded that any knife would have made the job tenfold easier, even a China-mart $2 cheapie. On Giuliano's BK-2 sheath he carries a "Shank", a short length of hacksaw blade sharpened on one side. Last week he used that little blade to make a friction fire set and it was far easier than using stone.
Granted neither of us are experts at knapping, we are just quartz bashers who hope for the best but that is a technique that works fairly well here. If you smash enough quartz you eventually end up with some decent blade shapes, saws, and scrapers. They say the weakest ink is stronger than the strongest memory. I feel the same way about steel.
Mac
For me the lesson was twofold. You can make a bowdrill here with smashed quartz. I have no doubt it was done that way in paleo-times here in Central Brazil due to the abundance of quartz. The second lesson was CARRY YOUR EDC KNIFE!!!! We concluded that any knife would have made the job tenfold easier, even a China-mart $2 cheapie. On Giuliano's BK-2 sheath he carries a "Shank", a short length of hacksaw blade sharpened on one side. Last week he used that little blade to make a friction fire set and it was far easier than using stone.
Granted neither of us are experts at knapping, we are just quartz bashers who hope for the best but that is a technique that works fairly well here. If you smash enough quartz you eventually end up with some decent blade shapes, saws, and scrapers. They say the weakest ink is stronger than the strongest memory. I feel the same way about steel.
Mac
But I will bet my left buttock that you had at least one stove on you Richard, and possibly more when getting your stove geek on!
But of course Southey, I'm not mad....really. Climbers and explorers/hill walkers take stoves but 'we' in the majority seem to have our destinations based on the ability to have a fire even if its only a twig burner; I just don't get it. I'll always have a means to produce hot food and drink but if I never had a fire again it would not bother me, even in my woodburner; wrap up warm and get in your tent. Let you rule the fire and don't let the fire dictate as to where you go as there's more to the UK than the little bits of woodland so many seek.
Bushwhacker southerns n USA been making roof top sun tea as the best on the market to drink. you can use parabolic mirror as well, but that is not hat we are trying to achieve.
Hummm 16 hours of night, well if you are in that kind of enivorment I am sure you are alone alot. So a fire might be okay. I am not out ruling fire, just trying to point out to think wiser and come up with ideas that stop the need for fire.
You can use a compost heap and black tubing or copper tubing in large pile of debris, wet it, and you can literally havehot water for anything for months. the nacteria in a compost pile will heat water up to 180f.
Hummm 16 hours of night, well if you are in that kind of enivorment I am sure you are alone alot. So a fire might be okay. I am not out ruling fire, just trying to point out to think wiser and come up with ideas that stop the need for fire.
You can use a compost heap and black tubing or copper tubing in large pile of debris, wet it, and you can literally havehot water for anything for months. the nacteria in a compost pile will heat water up to 180f.
hahaha you speak the word of truth Richard! let not the forest become our wooded prison, strike out from the boughs free you legs of the the tangling burden of the leaf and loam carpet, walk! and walk well my friends!
This is all getting a bit philosophical but your all right if we did not like it out in the big bad exciting outdoors getting cold, windblasted, soaked, sunburnt, bug bit, nettle stung, sore feet, thirsty, Trout stuffed, Bothe drunk and lost sorry benighted occasionally, And God forbid we have to setup camp in the dark, sit around a fire all night filling up with whiskey wisdom and then wakeup in the morning stinking of smoke with a pounding head that you can’t concentrate on because the view of the mountains across the loch in the morning is just stunning.
We can always join the indoor TV junkies watching puerile Jeremy kile breakfast shows.
F######## that.
Sorry gentlemen but I fell better after getting that wee rant off my chest
Later dudes i am off to the woods .
We can always join the indoor TV junkies watching puerile Jeremy kile breakfast shows.
F######## that.
Sorry gentlemen but I fell better after getting that wee rant off my chest
Later dudes i am off to the woods .
Last edited:
Compost heaps need a certain bulk to overcome the background temperature. I have three, always in use, always well tended and they're cold. They're basically worm worked. Only those which have either an incredibly sheltered position or incredibly good insulation, and drainage, run hot unless stoked with manure.
I don't keep horse, cattle or chickens.
Solar power isn't reliable here, solar cookers are a joke to us.
There's another reason for the need for fire; it's a warm hearth, an inviting hearth, it's a place where comfort, light, good food and good company mingle
And on that note, since it's Summer and we've got 16 hours of daylight just now, I'm away back outside to finish redding out vine weevil grubs from among my primroses, and not a blooming Robin in sight
cheers,
Toddy
I don't keep horse, cattle or chickens.
Solar power isn't reliable here, solar cookers are a joke to us.
There's another reason for the need for fire; it's a warm hearth, an inviting hearth, it's a place where comfort, light, good food and good company mingle
And on that note, since it's Summer and we've got 16 hours of daylight just now, I'm away back outside to finish redding out vine weevil grubs from among my primroses, and not a blooming Robin in sight
cheers,
Toddy
Toddy all I can say is this. When Europeans came to America, and they traveled through the woods, we watched them doing crazy things that seem so unnessicary to us. We watched and watched them die from doing dumb stuff, and then we came to help them out, you might call that thanksgiven story, but it happen all across America during the travels out west. They did not want to hear our advice, and so they had to endure stuff that really seem pointless to us. So we as a people learn to allow them to make their own mistakes, because they refuse to listen to people who been living in this enviroment for centuries. It may seem myth or lore to the europeans but it is rooted i deep undertsanding how this enviroment really works, the reason we mastered it as a people. you go against the grain, then you got hurt, simple as that. We dont seperate wisom fromn the spirit world from the material world, it is all interconnected. I know I seem looney to you, and maybe my advice seems dumb because I dont live where the sun dont shine. You try living in 28 ft of snow with winds up to 75 miles an hour monthes on end, then tell me about living without fire, it can be done easily and comfortable with the right knowledge. it is still snow in the desert of Nevada, I know both extremes, I lived it 25 years now, I know what i am talking about But if you dont want to grow in better understand, why you even here. If you tell me about your ways and your country, I will gladly listen to your advice, like the other guy that talks about the land scape by the sea there is harsh weather. but there is ways around all that, how else to you think people did things befiore gadjets. But anyways, i am a native who is will ing to share my knowledge to forgiener which is really forbidden in my peoples thinking, but I am open minded, but kee it up and I will stop talking, and let you figure out things on your own. but the man who stops listen and learning is a man who is dead even though he lives, thats why Americans still cant get it right, even if they are the biggest country in the world with wealth. But we natives will sit back and watch, and let crazy people do more crazy things. they laugh at us as we are uneducated, but they are now just figuring out medical plant uses for cancers, etc we know for 1000's of years. We had our big cities, and left them to go back to the woods, to live a more simple life, which gave us time to focus on Go, and not ourselves. but people enslave themselves daily to work, etc. and they call us the crazy ones. why i even try on these websites to explain what we do, maybe i am crazy for trying to see people are people and sometimes they need a little ush in the right direction. so you want fire go right ahead, but one day, maybe you will be in a place where there is no way of making fire, what are you going to do then,. I have been on those places, and was forced to stay there. If you dont know how to live without fire in these places you are done in. but enough said. I will keep some of my knowledge a secert where it belongs.
Last edited:
Leachim, stop and have a read at the forum.
It's full of some incredibly capable and very knowledgeable people It's easy company with interesting conversations.
It's not heavy, it's not life or death, it's social, it's learning, it's an enrichment of our lives.
You appear to live an extreme lifestyle and thrive on it. Good for you, and it's interesting to hear, but much of what you've posted just doesn't impinge on us beyond that.
We don't live a hard scrabble lifestyle. We enjoy the time we spend in the natural world, we don't try to 'master' it. We don't need to. We interact with it, live in it, benefit greatly from it, and enjoy the satisfaction of being capable in a great many skills and abilities. We thrive on the seasonality of it, in the variety of it, and the natural resources it provides that enrich our lives.
We chill out, we're not 16th/17th/18th century peoples in an unfamiliar environment trying to retain some vestiges of normality in our lives. We're at home, in our own land, with our history intact.
We are the first industrialised nation however, and that urbanisation and concommitant population growth has severed the ties to the countryside for many. In some ways our bushcraft helps to reconnect people with our native environment.
Does this make things any clearer ?
cheers,
Toddy
It's full of some incredibly capable and very knowledgeable people
It's easy company with interesting conversations.It's not heavy, it's not life or death, it's social, it's learning, it's an enrichment of our lives.
You appear to live an extreme lifestyle and thrive on it. Good for you, and it's interesting to hear, but much of what you've posted just doesn't impinge on us beyond that.
We don't live a hard scrabble lifestyle. We enjoy the time we spend in the natural world, we don't try to 'master' it. We don't need to. We interact with it, live in it, benefit greatly from it, and enjoy the satisfaction of being capable in a great many skills and abilities. We thrive on the seasonality of it, in the variety of it, and the natural resources it provides that enrich our lives.
We chill out, we're not 16th/17th/18th century peoples in an unfamiliar environment trying to retain some vestiges of normality in our lives. We're at home, in our own land, with our history intact.
We are the first industrialised nation however, and that urbanisation and concommitant population growth has severed the ties to the countryside for many. In some ways our bushcraft helps to reconnect people with our native environment.
Does this make things any clearer ?
cheers,
Toddy
yeah you made it clear, you are a city slicker regular camper, out on a fantasy adventure of peter pan story books. why not get an RV and join the other site, RVing and call that camping to. you rag on others about being survivlaist and craftsmen woodsmen, but in reality you are just another holiday in the park city folk camper. but I said enough, figure it out on your own, I will be selective what I say for now on.
No, I obviously haven't made it clear 
I'm not an urbanite and I live no fantasy.
I am a craftswoman, a teacher, an archaeologist, a housewife, a gardener, a herbalist, and an ethobotanist.....and all of those have deep roots in our natural environment.
That's reality.
I don't live in an extreme environment, I live in a rather damp temperate one, with quite defined seasons. That means that the natural world around me is in constant flux. I must either attend to the season and it's resouces or do without. I don't 'master' it, I adjust to it and crop it to my best advantage.
I'm not attacking you, leachim, but you're polarising the discussion without trying to appreciate where we're coming from with our outlook.
Your own lifestyle is very different to ours, fascinating to read about your experiences, but I would no more tell you that there is a certain way that you 'must' do things to survive than I would accept that all your advice is crucially relevant in my life.
Different environments require different strategies
Oh, and RV's don't go up hills or deep into the woods where there are no roads. Not that many here tbh, but then petrol and diesel are expensive here so shank's pony does for many
cheers,
Toddy
I'm not an urbanite and I live no fantasy.
I am a craftswoman, a teacher, an archaeologist, a housewife, a gardener, a herbalist, and an ethobotanist.....and all of those have deep roots in our natural environment.
That's reality.
I don't live in an extreme environment, I live in a rather damp temperate one, with quite defined seasons. That means that the natural world around me is in constant flux. I must either attend to the season and it's resouces or do without. I don't 'master' it, I adjust to it and crop it to my best advantage.
I'm not attacking you, leachim, but you're polarising the discussion without trying to appreciate where we're coming from with our outlook.
Your own lifestyle is very different to ours, fascinating to read about your experiences, but I would no more tell you that there is a certain way that you 'must' do things to survive than I would accept that all your advice is crucially relevant in my life.
Different environments require different strategies
Oh, and RV's don't go up hills or deep into the woods where there are no roads. Not that many here tbh, but then petrol and diesel are expensive here so shank's pony does for many
cheers,
Toddy
Similar threads
