Survival Tins - Updates

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neoaliphant

Settler
Aug 24, 2009
582
139
Somerset
Mrs has been buying baby food packs for our little one like the ones in the link below. Was looking at it and thought "It's resealable, foil on the inside, folds up small like a piece of paper....im having that as an emergency water carrier for the survival kit." Each one holds about 1/2 a pint but the fact it weighs and folds down next to nothing makes it a no brainer as we are just throwing them away anyway.

ive got some of those in anotehr pack, similar anyway, ill move one now to my survival pouch, thanks.

on a similar note these are usefull

screw up well, fit on to the nozzle of a sawyer precisely with pushfit

i use them as mni water bags, and to make squeeze jelly, which is normal jelly made up with 50% extra water, great for trekking....
 
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neoaliphant

Settler
Aug 24, 2009
582
139
Somerset
ive finished my tests
the winner is hexamine so far

if i had an efficient larger stove, and a large volume of meths, that might be better
but then so might gas

ive got a coleman feather stove in my car kit

so this experiment was just to compare voluems of what would fit in a nivea tin, for survival pouch
The hexamine came to about the same temp in about 5 mins comapred to the other fuels i tested
and the tin burnt out after 15
at 10 mins is was ferocious boil, where other ones were just starting to bubbly and roll boil

i might compare with dragon gel at some point...
 
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Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,282
83
Birmingham
I wonder were Dragon gel or the fuel oil would sit? They both seem to have a much higher alcohol percentage than anything else you have tried so far.
I think it might be worth carrying some sort of hexamine holder and the blocks in this sort of expanded survival kit. It would also give you a stand for a can stove which you could make from scrap and it would work with a lot of fuels as you have proved.
I really recommend the Trangia for your car stove as it is everything you need in a compact package with a burner that can take most liquids that burn.
 

neoaliphant

Settler
Aug 24, 2009
582
139
Somerset
I wonder were Dragon gel or the fuel oil would sit? They both seem to have a much higher alcohol percentage than anything else you have tried so far.
I think it might be worth carrying some sort of hexamine holder and the blocks in this sort of expanded survival kit. It would also give you a stand for a can stove which you could make from scrap and it would work with a lot of fuels as you have proved.
I really recommend the Trangia for your car stove as it is everything you need in a compact package with a burner that can take most liquids that burn.

Just looking at the size of a a dragon fuel capsule, seems much larger than a hexamine block
so im guessing cleaner, easier to manipulate than hexamine, but probably takes up more space.
and probably burning hottter than hand gel. pity my hand gel was not up to scratch.

I was pleased with the 3 nail trivet/pot stand, that seemed to work well
might try just foil as a bowl with the 3 nails to see how small a kit I can make

My car kit has coleman feather and coleman fue bottle, which ive had for 20 years and is quite robust, so wouldnt change it, possibly to electric hob or small propane if sold the feather

my backpack kit has small esbit hexi folding stove and the trangia mess tin
so was wondering just to have a nivea pot filled with hexamine and taped up as a mini stove in survival pouch. not that i would need it much there

but it does work well for lighting and placing hexamine, so might work well in the esbit as well just as hexamine holder

ive got loads of hexamine left, so getting dragon gel could be a bit gratuitous...
 
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Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,282
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Birmingham
Yeah, my Trangia is at least 20 years old so clever and simple pieces of kit.
Lee Blake is a really interesting van builder and he uses induction plates in his builds. He bases his build around electricity so has solar panels and a small powerful generator, very clever way of thinking and problem solving.
The main reason I am pro the hexamine is it gives you a fire starter that would work in the worst conditions. If I am using my base survival kit I am going to be lighting a fire if I need it. The bigger container kits I am thinking I will use it as well because as I said if you have access to a liquid fuel you can make a stove from trash.
My plan is to have 3 kits, 2 kits with the Aldi containers and a 2oz tobacco tin. The Aldi kits are in my BOB and hiking rucksack. The 2oz kit is always carried. Finally in my possibilities pouch is almost everything that is in all kits so I get used to using it and only it to do what I need to do. More importantly I find the problems and issues before I really need it.
I am going to use some of the ideas that have been brought up in this thread like a blue bag for the tins to go into so you can dump the contents into the bag. Going blue because it is the new signal colour and Bear has killed orange for me.
 
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MikeLA

Full Member
May 17, 2011
1,633
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Northumberland
Still like the idea of a tin small enough to put in a pocket. As a just in case, light and emergency use. Just the simple basics show in lofty wisemans book or even less.
 

neoaliphant

Settler
Aug 24, 2009
582
139
Somerset
Just a thought...
Has anyone tried using hand sanitiser as a fuel?
I have a feeling mine wasnt 70% to start with, it didnt specify on the bottle

it was about a litre bottle bought a couple of years ago with a pump thing and im windering if its lost some of its alcahol, there is some there as when i light it there is a small flame for a couple of seconds.

ive seen videos online with better results, could have been more medical grade sanitizer

dragon gel is £4/litre from blacks and can be used as hand sanitizer

ive also got a small mini 15ml pump of different brand, and i remember that working well with cotton wool as tinder, but im not going to use that as fuel.

i think the loft insulation as wick worked well tho as mentioned some posts back, so if anyone wants to test hand sanitizer fuel, that might help it...
 

neoaliphant

Settler
Aug 24, 2009
582
139
Somerset
Still like the idea of a tin small enough to put in a pocket. As a just in case, light and emergency use. Just the simple basics show in lofty wisemans book or even less.
theres a great variety, even down to the necklace/money belt size, like the wazoo cache belt, or the wazoo cache cap

you just need to be strict with what size you want,

in the past ive made a kit just to find a cool container i was currently using, but then my ocd kicks in when i want to add some more things and it doesnt fit.

I reckon this thread has cost me upwards of 40 hours this year is reconfiguring my kit/pouches and testing stuff....
 
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neoaliphant

Settler
Aug 24, 2009
582
139
Somerset
Yeah, my Trangia is at least 20 years old so clever and simple pieces of kit.
Lee Blake is a really interesting van builder and he uses induction plates in his builds. He bases his build around electricity so has solar panels and a small powerful generator, very clever way of thinking and problem solving.
The main reason I am pro the hexamine is it gives you a fire starter that would work in the worst conditions. If I am using my base survival kit I am going to be lighting a fire if I need it. The bigger container kits I am thinking I will use it as well because as I said if you have access to a liquid fuel you can make a stove from trash.
My plan is to have 3 kits, 2 kits with the Aldi containers and a 2oz tobacco tin. The Aldi kits are in my BOB and hiking rucksack. The 2oz kit is always carried. Finally in my possibilities pouch is almost everything that is in all kits so I get used to using it and only it to do what I need to do. More importantly I find the problems and issues before I really need it.
I am going to use some of the ideas that have been brought up in this thread like a blue bag for the tins to go into so you can dump the contents into the bag. Going blue because it is the new signal colour and Bear has killed orange for me.

I think if youre doing a whole van build, as you would need leisure batteries and invertors for otehr things anyway,as you say, solar panels and electric hotplate is the way to go, i dont like the idea of so much propane is large tanks in a vehicle.

i do like hexamine, even after 20 years my stash is still working fine for stove and for my steam engine. got a load on offer really cheap so i stocked up well. i like its versatility and lights easily even from a plasma arc lighter. my nivea tin has worked well as multi fuel, if i ran out of hexamine, a variety of otehr fuels would work great, just diffeing amounts of fuel needed and different amounts of soot.

made me laugh about the bear orange aversion...teenage me would have loved his line of gear tho.
also orange is common in nature , at least in my garden...

Did you get the recent Aldi lunchbox tins for £5 each?

i think niveapot packed with hexamine taped up for my small pouch. plus i have some straws filled with hex...
 
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Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,282
83
Birmingham
Still like the idea of a tin small enough to put in a pocket. As a just in case, light and emergency use. Just the simple basics show in lofty wisemans book or even less.
I agree however I think mine is going to get a little blue bag as that is such a good idea. I also think you need to replicate and use the items so you know how to use them and if they work for you. Three Points Of The Compass talks about losing his hydration kit and he would have been in big trouble if he did not have water tablets.

I think if youre doing a whole van build, as you would need leisure batteries and invertors for otehr things anyway,as you say, solar panels and electric hotplate is the way to go, i dont like the idea of so much propane is large tanks in a vehicle.
Lee Blake's build is really interesting and the way he changes it with use is even more interesting.

Did you get the recent Aldi lunchbox tins for £5 each?
Yeah, the single ones.
 

neoaliphant

Settler
Aug 24, 2009
582
139
Somerset
I agree however I think mine is going to get a little blue bag as that is such a good idea. I also think you need to replicate and use the items so you know how to use them and if they work for you. Three Points Of The Compass talks about losing his hydration kit and he would have been in big trouble if he did not have water tablets.


Lee Blake's build is really interesting and the way he changes it with use is even more interesting.


Yeah, the single ones.

Yep, my pouch kit generally is where i put small items from my larger kit,
im trying to keep to a single pouch for survival bits, plus leatehrman, torch etc as edc belt bits, + terrain pouches ( hot weather, cold weather and vs insects) depending on situation,
i keep thinking about using the trangia tin as a kit, but that lives in next pack up, and i might end up taking too much again and having a very heavy survival kit

im going to the blue bag idea as well, and have a polythene bag that acts as a waterproof liner for my pouch that i can pull out to find things
Also as discussed, small hexamine filled micro stove, whoch will act as a hexamine tinderbox as well.
hexamien lasts for decades literally and is easy to light.

I got so fed up with trangia stove people when i did renactment that it really put me off them on principle.

Im going to subscribe to Lee Blake, I like watching Alan Heath channel, especially the expedition review videos he does....
 
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Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,282
83
Birmingham
Yep, my pouch kit generally is where i put small items from my larger kit,
im trying to keep to a single pouch for survival bits, plus leatehrman, torch etc as edc belt bits, + terrain pouches ( hot weather, cold weather and vs insects) depending on situation,
i keep thinking about using the trangia tin as a kit, but that lives in next pack up, and i might end up taking too much again and having a very heavy survival kit
I think that is why the tin works in that it a set size and it should have what you need in an emergency.
The Trangia Tin kit for me would be like the SAS pouch kit in that it is a thing to boil water in, a cooker, and brew/food kit.

im going to the blue bag idea as well, and have a polythene bag that acts as a waterproof liner for my pouch that i can pull out to find things
Also as discussed, small hexamine filled micro stove, whoch will act as a hexamine tinderbox as well.
hexamien lasts for decades literally and is easy to light.
Thought that dump the tin into a bag idea was rocket science.

I got so fed up with trangia stove people when i did renactment that it really put me off them on principle.
I know I am looking at lightweight hiking kit at the moment and we do seem to have a rep. Not used to being in the in crowd, might have to check my thinking.

Im going to subscribe to Lee Blake, I like watching Alan Heath channel, especially the expedition review videos he does....
Lee Blake's channel is empty, there are like four or five videos with him should you round his van.

Lee Blake Van Build 1

Lee Blake Van Build 2

Lee Blake Van Build 3

There is another couple as well I think however could not find them. Really wish he would do more.
 

TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,878
857
Vantaa, Finland
On burning things: relevant numbers.

It also states the important fact that anything that generates water while burning loses some heat with water vapor. Hexamine and trioxane are not particularly good or bad either but the fact that they produce toxic byproducts when burning is not good for some cases.

Methanol is lousy but the higher alcohols seem ok. Propane and butane are a lot better for weight but one has to include the cans for practical purposes.
 

neoaliphant

Settler
Aug 24, 2009
582
139
Somerset
I think that is why the tin works in that it a set size and it should have what you need in an emergency.

Ive bookmarked lees videos, Ta

while propane has high heat outout, efficient etc, have specifications for no propane if we get a van build....

im gearing my towards the main part of a belt kit, with smaller pouches for knife, torch, parcord plus grappling hook, and also water bottle

these can all quickly be placed in a responsepack, and so if ive got everything on belt response pack empty

but by keeping it in pack on everyday basis, ive got a mini gobag to take to work, car trips

i also have a 40L molle backpack in car always as more of a car BOB, complete with larger grappling hook! also a medium grappling hook in a toolbox! i did sell my medieval grappliing hook so ive only got.......4

the molle pack has mini sleeping back, mini bivvy bag, poncho, hammock, trangia mess tin plus esbit, emergency stuff,

next level up i car camping kit so tent, thermarest, coleman stove, alsi folding bowl and the like

Aldi and lidl are great for kit!

bit off topic but the trangia reference
when I did saxon reenactment, most otehr people had their own car, but i used to have to travel by train or get a lift, so all my modern camping gear and all my renactment kit had to go in backpack and either hand. so in my 80L backpack, spear and shield in either hand, all my authentic kit the main backpack section, tent strapped to bottom, so all my food and modern gear just in the small section you get at the bottom of a pack for sleeping bag, sometimes i slept in wool cloak, or i had asoftie jungle bag plus cloak, this worked in snow as well..
as space was at a premium, for a 3 or 4 day show, for simple meals like instat ash, instant custard, tea, all i need is a bit of hot water, so my trangia mess tin and esbit combo were fine. but there were a lot of people that had the huge tangia 27 sets, and they were dismissive of everything else, that one stove would have taken up half the volume i had for my gear. i was doing ultralight things like cutting off toothbrush handle etc. id often not have a mat and use a browse bed from the english heritage trees, and lend my mat to someone who didnt have one, there were a lot of uni students who came along straight from college accomodation and so didnt have any it with them,

There was one particularly arrogant scottish **** who said that the britsih army throw away their hexamine and folding stoves and the rectangular mess tins, and use trangia 27, and that hexamine couldnt warm water even, so i would make a point of frying up sausage and bacon on it in front of him.....and this guy got another newbie , ( who had a brand new large folding hex stove, loads of hexamine, mess tins all as a backup cook system) to through his backup stuff away, i litereally saw them chuck it in a bin, because of the ****, so i fished them out, and the hexamine lasted me for years, so all that really put me of trangia stoves, the large ones, still like my trangia mess tin as its so small....

so i like small/lightweight, a lot of the renactors were if it was small or cheap it wouldnt be any good and youve wasted your money

i dont see how my esbit stove, which i got for my 7th birthday, along with an Etool, and both are going strong 38 years later, could be a waste of money.....
 
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Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,282
83
Birmingham
Neoaliphant, that is really weird. I have always thought the mess tins were massively under rated however the hex stove saw service all over the world and is often mentioned. I am sure someone, might have been Jocko, said something like the Brits are great however if you stop they will be making tea on those tiny stoves. Also I have seen pictures of them in use in the Falklands so if they worked there they should work anywhere. The UK, US, Australia and New Zealand all used them.
I have never had an issue with a Hex stove however I have had the Trangia wind issue which is a pain because you cannot see the flame or lack of it.
Lightweight hikers love them, and it is only the rise of Titanium that has really diminished their use. Then again they are a weird bunch, any cold soakers in the UK? :)
 

Jared

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2005
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Have you seen the new stoves the army supposedly is trailing/experimenting with?

 

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