Survival Knife - Ursus Cub vs Vigtig v Wild

[C_Claycomb]

Obviously I agree with the idea of starting with a more affordable and easier to sharpen knife and improve skills, but I am dubious about choosing Buck. Maybe the quality is good and the 420HC heat treat is good, but I have just looked at the range offered by both Heinnie Haynes in the UK and Blade HQ in the US and didn’t see a single design I would recommend to someone wanting to learn bushcraft or survival.

Maybe another website has models I didn’t see, but what I saw was what I was expecting, which was a lot of hunting knives. Stuff intended for gutting, skinning, or playing cowboy. Hollow grinds, big finger guards, big ricassos, finger grooves and skinny handles will all make the knife less useful for general bushcraft and survival type tasks.

There is something of a dearth of good knives in the affordable range, £20 to £100. Mora are so hard to beat with the Companion at the sub £20 level, and the Garberg a bit higher. In the £100 - £160 range there are a wealth of choices, but that was where you were before.

 

[HK06]

Obviously I agree with the idea of starting with a more affordable and easier to sharpen knife and improve skills, but I am dubious about choosing Buck. Maybe the quality is good and the 420HC heat treat is good, but I have just looked at the range offered by both Heinnie Haynes in the UK and Blade HQ in the US and didn’t see a single design I would recommend to someone wanting to learn bushcraft or survival.

Maybe another website has models I didn’t see, but what I saw was what I was expecting, which was a lot of hunting knives. Stuff intended for gutting, skinning, or playing cowboy. Hollow grinds, big finger guards, big ricassos, finger grooves and skinny handles will all make the knife less useful for general bushcraft and survival type tasks.

There is something of a dearth of good knives in the affordable range, £20 to £100. Mora are so hard to beat with the Companion at the sub £20 level, and the Garberg a bit higher. In the £100 - £160 range there are a wealth of choices, but that was where you were before.

Funny you mention that since I was genuinely considering this combo:

1) Mora Garberg (main blade)

Mora Garberg Dala Red Stainless

The Morakniv Garberg is a powerful full tang knife designed to perform the toughest tasks it encounters. Manufactured at the Morakniv factory in Mora, Sweden, it's the most robust knife they've ever made. The 0.

www.cyclaireshop.co.uk

2) Buck Pursuit small (backup blade - more hunting/skinning oriented but described as a more versatile alternative to a pure hunting knife)

Buck 658 Pursuit Small Knife

#html-body [data-pb-style=D6SVR3I]{justify-content:flex-start;display:flex;flex-direction:column;background-position:left top;background-size:cover;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-attachment:scroll;border-style:none;border-width:1px;border-radius:0

www.buck-store.co.uk

I’ve seen a lot of praise for the Cold Steel SRK too, but it’s huge and carbon and just looks too ‘tacticool’ for me to not feel like an idiot carrying it.

Heard traditional puukko knives are good too…

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have an SRK, bought in 1996. One word. No!!
The steel was okay, and the sheath was safe and secure. Every other aspect was poor or awful. You need to totally rebevel it to make it cut. The rubber handle is not secure for chopping, not comfortable for carving, not ergonomic for detail work. The false edge destroys batons used to expand the use of a knife, and the large ricasso puts the edge too far from the hand for efficient power cuts. The Master Hunter is better than the SRK, and the Falkniven F1 is better still.

 

[HK06]

I feel like I’ve been on a whole knowledge journey and somehow ended up where I started - not knowing which knife to buy.

 

[C_Claycomb]

The Finnish and Swedish knives are indeed generally good useful tools for our environment.
The recommendation criteria for knives often varies with where the person advising comes from, their environment and the use they put the knife to. For instance, I heard plenty of people like Cold Steel back in the day because they were so tough and easy to sharpen. Lots of videos of Lynn Thompson stabbing car doors and slashing bundles of rope. People liking their knives often cited digging holes with knives as one of their use cases.
Meanwhile, when Spyderco first wanted to make a bushcraft knife because there was a gap in the market after the end of Wilkinson Sword, and asked on forums for specifications, a chap from Australia described a spec already fulfilled by every other knife already for sale by Esse, Swamprat, Busse, BK&T, Fallkniven, Kabar, LionSteel! .

Simple answer is to get a Mora Companion, learn to use and sharpen it. Then look at more expensive tools.

 

[stonepark]

Funny you mention that since I was genuinely considering this combo:

1) Mora Garberg (main blade)

Mora Garberg Dala Red Stainless

The Morakniv Garberg is a powerful full tang knife designed to perform the toughest tasks it encounters. Manufactured at the Morakniv factory in Mora, Sweden, it's the most robust knife they've ever made. The 0.

www.cyclaireshop.co.uk

2) Buck Pursuit small (backup blade - more hunting/skinning oriented but described as a more versatile alternative to a pure hunting knife)

Buck 658 Pursuit Small Knife

#html-body [data-pb-style=D6SVR3I]{justify-content:flex-start;display:flex;flex-direction:column;background-position:left top;background-size:cover;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-attachment:scroll;border-style:none;border-width:1px;border-radius:0

www.buck-store.co.uk

I’ve seen a lot of praise for the Cold Steel SRK too, but it’s huge and carbon and just looks too ‘tacticool’ for me to not feel like an idiot carrying it.

Heard traditional puukko knives are good too…

I have both knifes in slightly different forms.

The Garberg is a bushcraft knife and stainless is easy to keep but needs sharpening 1.25 times as often as the carbon (which rusts). Easy to learn on and not too expensive. I have both black handled carbon and stainless versions.

I also have a Buck Large Pursuit Pro 656 (Same profile but large form with orange handle and S35vn), it is my gralloch knife (easy to see and sharp as .....). It can do bushcraft but is not set up for carving and rounded spine so no fire steel scraping. Not reccommended, would be better of with a Mora Kansbol as a back up blade to the Garberg.

 

[Nice65]

With a firm nod to the advice of @C_Claycomb, his experience exactly matches mine. Magnacut UKPK and Lionsteel M4, Magnacut. Lionsteel has since been given a convex edge and is a better knife for it.

The Lionsteel has bust up firewood by being walloped hard, pointed up marker pegs for stalls, halved pineapples and melons, cut a thousand cable tie ends, cut hose for pipe work, and shaped wedges to stabilised tables, beer barrels etc.

The UKPK is the most used knife I own, and I have way too many. It is safe, stays sharp, pointy enough to dig a splinter, works really hard, put an edge back on it yesterday as it’s been out working at a wood fair in sandy, dusty conditions for a week. It’s done everything from halving big rolls of orange road barrier plastic to nipping the stalks off strawberries and slicing apples, chorizo etc. And removing an awkward load of thistle jags from the bottom of my foot.

 

[William_Montgomery]

Worth taking at look at the jaakaripuukkos and skramas from varusteleka. Really durable, reliable and not expensive. The handles are good, non-slippery when wet. The blades keep a good edge and they strike ferro rods well.



https://www.varusteleka.com/en/category/knives-and-tools/1197

 

[HK06]

Thanks all.

My preference is for stainless steels for their corrosion resistance. Bearing in mind this is supposed to be an all scenario survival knife, covering everything from a mild emergency to a nuclear zombie apocalypse, that seems like an important trait.

Seems like the question of a primary blade has really come down to Mora Garberg vs Fallkniven F1.

 

[GreyCat]

Obviously I agree with the idea of starting with a more affordable and easier to sharpen knife and improve skills, but I am dubious about choosing Buck. Maybe the quality is good and the 420HC heat treat is good, but I have just looked at the range offered by both Heinnie Haynes in the UK and Blade HQ in the US and didn’t see a single design I would recommend to someone wanting to learn bushcraft or survival.

Maybe another website has models I didn’t see, but what I saw was what I was expecting, which was a lot of hunting knives. Stuff intended for gutting, skinning, or playing cowboy. Hollow grinds, big finger guards, big ricassos, finger grooves and skinny handles will all make the knife less useful for general bushcraft and survival type tasks.

There is something of a dearth of good knives in the affordable range, £20 to £100. Mora are so hard to beat with the Companion at the sub £20 level, and the Garberg a bit higher. In the £100 - £160 range there are a wealth of choices, but that was where you were before.

This. In spades. Moras are such good value for money.

Also..... different folks tend to like different types of blades. Me, I'm a pukko, leuku and skrama person. I do have a couple of nice "bushcraft" type knives, but they just don't float my boat.

@HK06 : Have you considered what your expected use is? Even in UK there's a range of environments to which you might, errrr, "bug out." I find that one of my most used edged tools is my Fiskars brushhook (old style). It's cheap, lightweight, holds the edge, doesn't corrode, is acceptably sharp out the box and hones up to a proper wicked edge. It's also got enough legitimate uses that it owning one doesn't attract the wrong sort of attention. But the only "knife" that I own that I would consider using for wood/brush chopping is one of my Skramas (200 or 240, but preferably 240) or a kukri.

Thanks all.

My preference is for stainless steels for their corrosion resistance. Bearing in mind this is supposed to be an all scenario survival knife, covering everything from a mild emergency to a nuclear zombie apocalypse, that seems like an important trait.

Seems like the question of a primary blade has really come down to Mora Garberg vs Fallkniven F1.

What is a "primary" blade?

Edged tools come in varying type with different uses.... axes, skramas, billhooks, kukris, knives, natas. And knives vary a LOT depending on intended use and user preference (as do axes in fact).

How do you define "survival" (or even "long term survival" which is in fact verging into resilience and homesteading)?

"Survival" products are typically in the military "escape and evade for a short time until rescued" context. Longer term survival is more of a lifestyle commitment starting with resilience and skills and founded in a community. Have you ever grown vegetables from seed? Do you know how to make compost? Can you sew a button back on or repair a tear in a coat? Can you chop wood, light a wood fire and cook on it?

Steel type: I don't own any magic steels. I do own a bunch of stuff made from "ordinary" carbon steels. My knives, axes, saws, gardening tools etc live inside these days, but so long as they are clean, dry, oiled they don't really rust if kept in a decent box undercover.

I echo the suggestion of starting out with something like a basic Mora. Use it, learn to sharpen it, practise some basic skills like lighting a fire with a ferrorod and working with cordage. Get some skills, develop resilient life habits.

Equally, if you just want to buy a NIce Knife, as a shiney toy- that's OK, it's your choice- just don't lull yourself into a false sense of security because you have it.

GC

 

[HK06]

This. In spades. Moras are such good value for money.

Also..... different folks tend to like different types of blades. Me, I'm a pukko, leuku and skrama person. I do have a couple of nice "bushcraft" type knives, but they just don't float my boat.

@HK06 : Have you considered what your expected use is? Even in UK there's a range of environments to which you might, errrr, "bug out." I find that one of my most used edged tools is my Fiskars brushhook (old style). It's cheap, lightweight, holds the edge, doesn't corrode, is acceptably sharp out the box and hones up to a proper wicked edge. It's also got enough legitimate uses that it owning one doesn't attract the wrong sort of attention. But the only "knife" that I own that I would consider using for wood/brush chopping is one of my Skramas (200 or 240, but preferably 240) or a kukri.



What is a "primary" blade?

Edged tools come in varying type with different uses.... axes, skramas, billhooks, kukris, knives, natas. And knives vary a LOT depending on intended use and user preference (as do axes in fact).

How do you define "survival" (or even "long term survival" which is in fact verging into resilience and homesteading)?

"Survival" products are typically in the military "escape and evade for a short time until rescued" context. Longer term survival is more of a lifestyle commitment starting with resilience and skills and founded in a community. Have you ever grown vegetables from seed? Do you know how to make compost? Can you sew a button back on or repair a tear in a coat? Can you chop wood, light a wood fire and cook on it?

Steel type: I don't own any magic steels. I do own a bunch of stuff made from "ordinary" carbon steels. My knives, axes, saws, gardening tools etc live inside these days, but so long as they are clean, dry, oiled they don't really rust if kept in a decent box undercover.

I echo the suggestion of starting out with something like a basic Mora. Use it, learn to sharpen it, practise some basic skills like lighting a fire with a ferrorod and working with cordage. Get some skills, develop resilient life habits.

Equally, if you just want to buy a NIce Knife, as a shiney toy- that's OK, it's your choice- just don't lull yourself into a false sense of security because you have it.

GC

Thanks; these discussion points have come up earlier on this thread already so I’ll let you refer back if you want details - but in short:

- Yes I recognise skills development is important; I have some of the required skills but need to learn others - researching gear, such as types of knife, is only one part of being prepared and the two aren’t mutually exclusive

- An axe, multitool and folding saw are also in the bag

- It’s an emergency preparedness kit so specifying any one use or situation isn’t possible as anything can happen and for any duration

- It seems logical to me that a robust jack of all trades would be the best choice of knife

 

[Chris]

Personally I’d get a Mora Companion HD or Garberg and go out and try using it for all the things you have in mind (other than defence, do not leave the house with it if you have this even remotely in mind).

Baton wood, skin and butcher an animal, prep food, make a bow drill set, cut rope, really give it a good kicking. What doesn’t it do that you need it to do?

If the answer is nothing: congrats, you found your knife!

If the answer is something: decide what feature you specifically need and go from there.

Part of an urban or apocalypse bug-out scenario is keeping under the radar, which a fancy looking £300 knife might make difficult. Also makes you more of a target for theft.

 

[Chris]

Worth taking at look at the jaakaripuukkos and skramas from varusteleka. Really durable, reliable and not expensive. The handles are good, non-slippery when wet. The blades keep a good edge and they strike ferro rods well.

View attachment 96039

https://www.varusteleka.com/en/category/knives-and-tools/1197

There is something wonderful about well-used knives that money can’t buy. These look splendid.

 

[GreyDog]

Love this thread, so many well grounded, sensible comments - TeeDee is spot on imho. My musings...

1. Your most likely 'disaster' in the UK is that you have to get home on foot. For this situation it's whatever you have on you, which to be legal is going to be a SAK or UKPK or similar small folder. First thing I would look for is a decent stick - if green a 1-1..5" thick pole can be cut with a SAK. I'd go for 4'-5' long. Enough to lean on if ground is uneven, long enough to poke things in front of to you to assess danger, and more effective for self defence than a SAK.
2. What knife for a bug-out bag? Not something I've ever made but for arguments sake: I would go with a Mora HD, Robust, Bushcraft or maybe the Spark. They are cheap enough to buy and stick away without worrying about the cost. I wouldn't worry about sharpening, but if you are, then maybe the Bushcraft survival with flint and sharpener built in? Up a level? How about a Peltonen - they come in 5" or 6" blades, are robust (and easy to sharpen) with very grippy handles and even come teflon coated, reducing rust issues. Lamnia does them fairly cheap around £65+VAT.
3. Most likely thing to be needed that can be carried. OK it's a SAK, but next? A FAK - first aid kit. Whenever I travel I put a basic FAK in my bum bag. I've patched myself, my wife and other tourists. Including a dog-bite.

I have the Boker Tech tool C_Claycomb mentioned and the Boker Vigtig in Magnacut - I was using both today and can commend them both to you.

 

[HK06]

Love this thread, so many well grounded, sensible comments - TeeDee is spot on imho. My musings...

1. Your most likely 'disaster' in the UK is that you have to get home on foot. For this situation it's whatever you have on you, which to be legal is going to be a SAK or UKPK or similar small folder. First thing I would look for is a decent stick - if green a 1-1..5" thick pole can be cut with a SAK. I'd go for 4'-5' long. Enough to lean on if ground is uneven, long enough to poke things in front of to you to assess danger, and more effective for self defence than a SAK.
2. What knife for a bug-out bag? Not something I've ever made but for arguments sake: I would go with a Mora HD, Robust, Bushcraft or maybe the Spark. They are cheap enough to buy and stick away without worrying about the cost. I wouldn't worry about sharpening, but if you are, then maybe the Bushcraft survival with flint and sharpener built in? Up a level? How about a Peltonen - they come in 5" or 6" blades, are robust (and easy to sharpen) with very grippy handles and even come teflon coated, reducing rust issues. Lamnia does them fairly cheap around £65+VAT.
3. Most likely thing to be needed that can be carried. OK it's a SAK, but next? A FAK - first aid kit. Whenever I travel I put a basic FAK in my bum bag. I've patched myself, my wife and other tourists. Including a dog-bite.

I have the Boker Tech tool C_Claycomb mentioned and the Boker Vigtig in Magnacut - I was using both today and can commend them both to you.

Yep sounds right. I have a Swiss champ in the car and a smaller Alox SAK for every day needs.
This is really a massive worst case scenario flee-for-your-life type scenario. People call it prepping but that does make me sound like a weirdo in a tin foil hat.

 

[GreyDog]

Yep sounds right. I have a Swiss champ in the car and a smaller Alox SAK for every day needs.
This is really a massive worst case scenario flee-for-your-life type scenario. People call it prepping but that does make me sound like a weirdo in a tin foil hat.

A tin foil hat may help avoid Chinese microwaves and doubles up as a cooking pot! I love an Alox SAK - got Farmer, FarmerX and Pioneer X functional and beautiful, always have one on me (not at airports obviously).

 

[TeeDee]

Hi all

Hope you’re doing good.
Im looking for the ultimate bugout bag knife. This is a one-and-done, all-purpose survival knife with high reliability, performance and durability for massive and potentially prolonged disaster situations.

Quite a bit of simple truths to this here.

MOST LIKELY. Money ( Can be cash - Pro's and Cons ) - Copies of Important Documentation ( whatever you have and whatever that means to you ) - Protection ( Better skip that in the UK ) - Water / ability to purify water -Food- Basic First aid kit & Basic Meds ( & Prescribed meds ) - Comms ( Phone , charger , Battery bank )

Bug Out would mean more about moving away from a probable threat in your area - getting off the X ( At some semblance of speed vs distance ) .

In the UK that is more likely ( I think ) to be temporary and something like being instructed to evacuate an area because some piece of civil infrastructure is going to go ka-boom..


I would suggest doing a search on YT for Bug Out Fantasy - like this thread connected to just a Knife , thinking and being open to some new perspectives may save you time , energy & worrying about what to invest in over the long run.

 

[TLM]

Interesting subject in a way, Bugout might make sense if one has a reasonable place for it (not counting official evacuations). In Finland there are about half a million cottages (summer houses, second homes), that is the official count. As we have a population of about 5.6 million it means that this spread out housing can take about all in an emergency if the cities are not habitable. Not all are totally self sufficient but many are. So in many situations I have a bugout place to go.

The screwy point is the possible short range thing but the possibilities are so varied that one can only have some basics and then hope for the best.

I certainly would include some knives but most likely they would be some basic Moras, I have them sprinkled around.

 

[gllct0]

Yeah, the Ursus is .158 while the cub is .130. Both have a really high grind so they’re a great thickness bte

 

[Megatramp]

Check out the Hultafors GK too, £5 for such a bombproof tool! I keep a couple in vehicle kits for when a day out turns into an overnighter/weekender.


The main thing to consider is providing safe drinking water for the family so a couple of water filters would be a better spend in my opinion.