Survival Knife - Ursus Cub vs Vigtig v Wild

[HK06]

Hi all

Hope you’re doing good.
Im looking for the ultimate bugout bag knife. This is a one-and-done, all-purpose survival knife with high reliability, performance and durability for massive and potentially prolonged disaster situations.

I’m looking at two full tang fixed blade magnacut knives:

1) White River Ursus Cub

Vs

2) Boker Vigtig vs Wild

Not a knife expert so I would really appreciate your opinions. The Boker is a fair bit cheaper but still seems decent quality which is curious.

Thanks a lot in advance.

PS. I know “the best knife is the one you have” but if I have a chance to prep I think I should!

 

[C_Claycomb]

LionSteel M4 Black G10, MagnaCut M4-MC-GBK, Knivesandtools Exclusive, fixed knife

LionSteel M4 Black G10, MagnaCut M4-MC-GBK, Knivesandtools Exclusive, fixed knife: null

www.knivesandtools.co.uk

Just to make the decision harder,


I have to say that I think your premise is unrealistic, but playing along, I think of the two you have shown, the Ursus Cub is going to be the more useful. The higher grind and secondary bevel will be better for food and other non-wood shaving cuts, and easier to sharpen. In the event you have to bug out, making feather sticks and crafting will be lower priorities. The big bevel will be hard(er) to sharpen in the field, just by dint of the amount of material to remove.

Good choice on Magnacut. Should have no corrosion issues while it sits in a bag waiting for catastrophe to strike, and then it is pretty tough and holds a good fine edge.

 

[HK06]

LionSteel M4 Black G10, MagnaCut M4-MC-GBK, Knivesandtools Exclusive, fixed knife

LionSteel M4 Black G10, MagnaCut M4-MC-GBK, Knivesandtools Exclusive, fixed knife: null

www.knivesandtools.co.uk

Just to make the decision harder,


I have to say that I think your premise is unrealistic, but playing along, I think of the two you have shown, the Ursus Cub is going to be the more useful. The higher grind and secondary bevel will be better for food and other non-wood shaving cuts, and easier to sharpen. In the event you have to bug out, making feather sticks and crafting will be lower priorities. The big bevel will be hard(er) to sharpen in the field, just by dint of the amount of material to remove.

Good choice on Magnacut. Should have no corrosion issues while it sits in a bag waiting for catastrophe to strike, and then it is pretty tough and holds a good fine edge.

Thanks, appreciate the perspective.
What do you mean by the premise being unrealistic?

 

[C_Claycomb]

Thanks, appreciate the perspective.
What do you mean by the premise being unrealistic?

Maybe “improbable” would have been a better description than “unrealistic”.

Each to their own. Do you have a UKPK in Magnacut and yellow FRN?

I like knives…I make knives. I own that M4, and that UKPK, and a number of others. I am in full support of buying knives as tools just because you fancy. However, my own risk assessment and life experience is that a survival knife in a bugout bag isn’t likely to ever be needed in the UK. There might be times when one needs to flee at a moments notice, but that isn’t the norm and tends to be localised, and fleeing to the woods to build shelter and fire is an unlikely subset of that rare situation.

What knives do you already have and enjoy using? I think it would be a shame to have only one Magnacut knife and not use it because you are saving it for an emergency. It is nice steel.

Best regards

Chris

 

[HK06]

Maybe “improbable” would have been a better description than “unrealistic”.

Each to their own. Do you have a UKPK in Magnacut and yellow FRN?

I like knives…I make knives. I own that M4, and that UKPK, and a number of others. I am in full support of buying knives as tools just because you fancy. However, my own risk assessment and life experience is that a survival knife in a bugout bag isn’t likely to ever be needed in the UK. There might be times when one needs to flee at a moments notice, but that isn’t not the norm and tends to be localised, and fleeing to the woods to build shelter and fire is an unlikely subset of that rare situation.

What knives do you already have and enjoy using? I think it would be a shame to have only one Magnacut knife and not use it because you are saving it for an emergency. It is nice steel.

Best regards

Chris

Oh I totally agree it’s unlikely. There are rising global military and infrastructure threats and sadly growing local tensions, but I thankfully doubt we will be thrown into an actual apocalypse scenario in the UK in our lifetimes.

However, having kids makes you prepare more, and history is full of people who assumed nothing would happen and paid the price!

In answer to your question, I own a small Opinel picnic knife and a couple of SAKs; the Pioneer X Alox and the Swiss Champ. They are both fantastic and have really been sufficient for me, as I do enjoy hiking and archery but beyond than that I’m not a huge outdoors/bushcraft person and honestly my day-to-day life is as a regular guy with a desk job.

I do appreciate the quality of a lot of high end blades, and have had my eye on Spyderco for a while, but as we know UK laws prevent carrying anything other than a slip joint/non-locker without a specified reason. In this case, from an EDC perspective, the SAKs do the job for me and any knife beyond this would purely be be for the pleasure of owning it.

Regards

H

 

[C_Claycomb]

The Spyderco UKPK is a sub 3” slip joint. United Kingdom Pen Knife. High performance steel and design, UK legal EDC.

Boker Plus Tech Tool…12C27 blade, easy to sharpen, better edge than the SAKs, non locking, and have a carbide glass breaker in the butt. Not expensive.

Hmmm. Based on your existing knife collection and othe descriptions it sounds like you could possibly benefit from some training and practice using and sharpening a fixed blade. Worst thing would be to need to use that knife and not know how, and cut yourself. Not a whole course, but a few hours with someone would go a long way.

Have you heard of the BushMoot? Happening in a few weeks, just west of Coventry. Very welcoming for bushcraft beginners and kids.

 

[TeeDee]

My thoughts. ( if you're interested )

Everyone starts a journey on looking or designing a Grail knife.

I would suggest for the things that you're concerned about and have referenced - spend money first in a type of relevant training that will stay with you.

 

[HK06]

The Spyderco UKPK is a sub 3” slip joint. United Kingdom Pen Knife. High performance steel and design, UK legal EDC.

Boker Plus Tech Tool…12C27 blade, easy to sharpen, better edge than the SAKs, non locking, and have a carbide glass breaker in the butt. Not expensive.

Hmmm. Based on your existing knife collection and othe descriptions it sounds like you could possibly benefit from some training and practice using and sharpening a fixed blade. Worst thing would be to need to use that knife and not know how, and cut yourself. Not a whole course, but a few hours with someone would go a long way.

Have you heard of the BushMoot? Happening in a few weeks, just west of Coventry. Very welcoming for bushcraft beginners and kids.

Thank you very much.
I’ll certainly check it out - actually my main concern is sharpening as this is something I have hardly needed to do beyond kitchen knives!

 

[HK06]

My thoughts. ( if you're interested )

Everyone starts a journey on looking or designing a Grail knife.

I would suggest for the things that you're concerned about and have referenced - spend money first in a type of relevant training that will stay with you.

Thanks, anything in particular you’d recommend?

 

[Wildgoose]

What do you see the knife being used for in a bug out scenario? This would give people a bit more information to make their decision on.

With £140-180 I’d divide up that a bit. Get a puuko type knife for chores, an axe for chopping and a Laplander type saw for cutting.
That way if one breaks it’s not the end of the world (unless it is of course)

Less likely to get seized/stolen too, either when training or in a real bug out situation.

 

[HK06]

What do you see the knife being used for in a bug out scenario? This would give people a bit more information to make their decision on.

With £140-180 I’d divide up that a bit. Get a puuko type knife for chores, an axe for chopping and a Laplander type saw for cutting.
That way if one breaks it’s not the end of the world (unless it is of course)

Less likely to get seized/stolen too, either when training or in a real bug out situation

So a hatchet, folding saw, and multitool (swiss tool) are also going in the bag.

This is just an all-purpose fixed blade knife for heavier-duty work in any possible disaster scenario (woodwork, rope, skinning, defence, all possible survival needs so versatility is key). I’ve chosen high-end magnacut for long-term durability and performance but I am wondering if I’ve shot too high - would I be better off keeping a few mid-range knives instead? Your point about theft is very sound.

 

[TeeDee]

Thanks, anything in particular you’d recommend?

"Hope you’re doing good.
Im looking for the ultimate bugout bag knife. This is a one-and-done, all-purpose survival knife with high reliability, performance and durability for massive and potentially prolonged disaster situations."

Well , I think the best thing to do is to be horribly honest with oneself - which isn't something thats easy due to ego getting in the way ( we all have an Ego to contend with ) - but if you can its the most worthwhile exercise.

I would suggest once you've done it and if you're really concerned with the topic area I've quoted you consider the following

Medical training- Starting at basic level and then maybe slowly escalate it to a higher level - ditch type medical training via something like WMT Far from Home course.

Health & Fitness - nothing exotic - but nothing tilted to one edge , meaning moderate investment in aerobic , ( walking , jogging , " rucking " ) , core strength work ( for strength not show ) and some general tidyness of ones diet and overall quality of food and meaningful rest - including mental health.

Self defence training - I don't mean anything high speed or show based ( or anything in a dojo or belt based ) - and more to get used to having an ability to turn on a combative aggressive mindset and toolbox when you need it. Also to get used to reading a room and having/building situational awareness.

I don't think putting too much onus on one bit of kit is a great policy of mental preparation. I think my concern is if you're putting so much investment and attention to a single bag of bit ( bug out bag ) what happens if you lose it , are separated from it , have it removed from you - it will I feel effect ones mindset negatively.


You may find this thread useful.

Thread 'Essential life saving skills.'

Dec 7, 2024

Essential life saving skills syllabus. .

What skills or knowledge would you say are the most important life saving skills - either your own life or someone elses should be taught on a very limited syllabus list of teaching ?

So these skills - should be the absolute essential , rather than learning many variations of a theme.
As an example of what I mean. Knowing how to tie a bowline around yourself maybe the one knot you/we should all know without it being having to explained or shown to us in a stressful scenario -- all the other knots are great to learn , but the Bowline is one of...

• TeeDee
• Replies: 84
• Forum: Bushcraft and survival skills

• 

 

[C_Claycomb]

“The more you know, the less you carry.” Mors Kochanski.

And tweaking Jeff Cooper a little
“Owning a BoB with a knife doesn’t make you able to survive any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

Many of us are here because we value self reliance and want to be capable of taking care of our selves and those around us. Kit looks a straightforward path towards that goal, and it can help, but no piece of kit works so well that it obviates the need for acquired skill…sadly for those of us that like shiny kit!

Training recommendations. Best to start a new thread on this question. Brief thought:

• You mention needing to cut rope, but what knots can you tie? In the rain, in the dark, or with only one hand? Do you have rope? What kind and what are its characteristics when loaded, wetted, or knotted? For example https://bushcraftuk.com/community/threads/tarpology-knots.78600/
• You mention skinning an animal. Have you skinned many animals before. The mechanics aren’t complicated, but it’s a great activity for making a mistake and cutting yourself. Just remember, exposure and dehydration are dangerous much sooner than hunger!
• What martial arts have you studied? If you are worried about defence, look at combatives rather than sports. This or that thing in your hand is not as important as what is in your head.
• Are you first aide trained?
• Have you taken any bushcraft or survival courses?
  • Fire craft, shelter building, tarps, outdoor cooking?

Like I said, the Moot might be a good opportunity if you can get to it.

 

[HK06]

"Hope you’re doing good.
Im looking for the ultimate bugout bag knife. This is a one-and-done, all-purpose survival knife with high reliability, performance and durability for massive and potentially prolonged disaster situations."

Well , I think the best thing to do is to be horribly honest with oneself - which isn't something thats easy due to ego getting in the way ( we all have an Ego to contend with ) - but if you can its the most worthwhile exercise.

I would suggest once you've done it and if you're really concerned with the topic area I've quoted you consider the following

Medical training- Starting at basic level and then maybe slowly escalate it to a higher level - ditch type medical training via something like WMT Far from Home course.

Health & Fitness - nothing exotic - but nothing tilted to one edge , meaning moderate investment in aerobic , ( walking , jogging , " rucking " ) , core strength work ( for strength not show ) and some general tidyness of ones diet and overall quality of food and meaningful rest - including mental health.

Self defence training - I don't mean anything high speed or show based ( or anything in a dojo or belt based ) - and more to get used to having an ability to turn on a combative aggressive mindset and toolbox when you need it. Also to get used to reading a room and having/building situational awareness.

I don't think putting too much onus on one bit of kit is a great policy of mental preparation. I think my concern is if you're putting so much investment and attention to a single bag of bit ( bug out bag ) what happens if you lose it , are separated from it , have it removed from you - it will I feel effect ones mindset negatively.


You may find this thread useful.

Thread 'Essential life saving skills.'

Dec 7, 2024

Essential life saving skills syllabus. .

What skills or knowledge would you say are the most important life saving skills - either your own life or someone elses should be taught on a very limited syllabus list of teaching ?

So these skills - should be the absolute essential , rather than learning many variations of a theme.
As an example of what I mean. Knowing how to tie a bowline around yourself maybe the one knot you/we should all know without it being having to explained or shown to us in a stressful scenario -- all the other knots are great to learn , but the Bowline is one of...

• TeeDee
• Replies: 84
• Forum: Bushcraft and survival skills

• 

“The more you know, the less you carry.” Mors Kochanski.

And tweaking Jeff Cooper a little
“Owning a BoB with a knife doesn’t make you able to survive any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

Many of us are here because we value self reliance and want to be capable of taking care of our selves and those around us. Kit looks a straightforward path towards that goal, and it can help, but no piece of kit works so well that it obviates the need for acquired skill…sadly for those of us that like shiny kit!

Training recommendations. Best to start a new thread on this question. Brief thought:

• You mention needing to cut rope, but what knots can you tie? In the rain, in the dark, or with only one hand? Do you have rope? What kind and what are its characteristics when loaded, wetted, or knotted? For example https://bushcraftuk.com/community/threads/tarpology-knots.78600/
• You mention skinning an animal. Have you skinned many animals before. The mechanics aren’t complicated, but it’s a great activity for making a mistake and cutting yourself. Just remember, exposure and dehydration are dangerous much sooner than hunger!
• What martial arts have you studied? If you are worried about defence, look at combatives rather than sports. This or that thing in your hand is not as important as what is in your head.
• Are you first aide trained?
• Have you taken any bushcraft or survival courses?
  • Fire craft, shelter building, tarps, outdoor cooking?

Like I said, the Moot might be a good opportunity if you can get to it.

Appreciate the honest feedback.

Regarding my current skills:

• I’ve had some first aid training but a refresher would be useful.

• In terms of defence yes I have practised a combination of striking and grappling although as we know this is no guarantee of anything in a life or death situation.

• I practise archery too which is (maybe?) useful.

• I try to do regular weights and cardio but nothing remarkable.

• I’ve been camping so have some basic outdoor skills but really I think my learning needs are:

1) Bushcraft
2) Knots
3) First aid refresher
4) (Animal skinning as a bonus)

I get the emphasis is more about skills than equipment but I also want to ensure I have a decent blade as it’s such a versatile tool.

 

[TeeDee]

Appreciate the honest feedback.

Regarding my current skills:

• I’ve had some first aid training but a refresher would be useful.

• In terms of defence yes I have practised a combination of striking and grappling although as we know this is no guarantee of anything in a life or death situation.

• I practise archery too which is (maybe?) useful.

• I try to do regular weights and cardio but nothing remarkable.

• I’ve been camping so have some basic outdoor skills but really I think my learning needs are:

1) Bushcraft
2) Knots
3) First aid refresher
4) (Animal skinning as a bonus)

I get the emphasis is more about skills than equipment but I also want to ensure I have a decent blade as it’s such a versatile tool.

There is no harm in trying and using a multitude of blades and eventually settling for one - bit like finding a life partner ( Ha-Ha!! )

In the mean time however there is no harm in using a simple ubiquitous knife to experiment and practice-practice-practice - so a Mora for the growing and learning phase is ( I think ) perfectly fine.

They are cheap enough to purchase and not be concerned if you dink the blade ( good opportunity to practice bringing the edge back ) , won't break the bank if you lose or find yourself discovering if pricey full tang knives don't always like being battoned and from a perspective of 'cheap knife=worse case' type scenario - if you can get it done with an inexpensive knife ( learning hand skills , blade cuts , how to do more with less is literally efficiency ) then you will only benefit.


Anyway - thats my advice. This type of topic comes up on a regular basis and its understandable - and nearly always the advice is generically similar and well intended - You don't NEED an expensive knife to start . You WANT an expensive knife...

And even when you may have mastered all the bushcraft and disaster type skills under the sun and moon - You still may come full circle and stick with the Mora.


In the meant time , enjoy the trip.

 

[TLM]

You don't NEED an expensive knife to start

Yup.

You WANT an expensive knife...

Nope, one wants a GOOD knife, some of them tend to be expensive though but not necessarily.

 

[Wildgoose]

So a hatchet, folding saw, and multitool (swiss tool) are also going in the bag.

This is just an all-purpose fixed blade knife for heavier-duty work in any possible disaster scenario (woodwork, rope, skinning, defence, all possible survival needs so versatility is key). I’ve chosen high-end magnacut for long-term durability and performance but I am wondering if I’ve shot too high - would I be better off keeping a few mid-range knives instead? Your point about theft is very sound.

I think we’ve probably all looked for “one knife to rule them all” in the past.
I’d want to avoid anything that may damage my knife or result in its loss, hacking at dirty rope will seriously affect its ability to be a good skinner.

As has been pointed out mental and physical preparation is key, with as much practice as possible. People go fishing every weekend and catch nothing, yet I think I can throw in a few hooks on a piece of string and pull a salmon out a few minutes later. Enjoy the training

 

[stonepark]

Realistically, in The UK from a Mora garberg Carbon or equivalent to your magna cut choices and 6 to 8 inch sharpening stone (diamond 400 and 1000 double sided) would all be suitable as do all survival basic kit.

What you really need is two Cold Steel tanto masters or equivalent for self defence to back up your bow.... as due to population density in the UK do you think you will be the only one bugging out?

 

[HK06]

Thanks all.
On reflection I’m leaning towards the idea that having a decent quality, affordable, easy-to-sharpen blade and learning the skills around it and around survival are more important than purchasing a high end super-steel.

I will likely get a couple of 420HC buck knives (I’ve heard the build quality and heat treatment lets them punch above their weight) and start upskilling myself.

 

[TeeDee]

Thanks all.
On reflection I’m leaning towards the idea that having a decent quality, affordable, easy-to-sharpen blade and learning the skills around it and around survival are more important than purchasing a high end super-steel.

I will likely get a couple of 420HC buck knives (I’ve heard the build quality and heat treatment lets them punch above their weight) and start upskilling myself.

Good call.