Bearing in mind that cartridges that are very common .38 special and .44 magnum were originally designed to run on BP. Modern powders take up a fraction of the case.
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Southern Gun Company -.223 Lever Release.
- Thread starter TeeDee
- Start date
Mostly in agreement, but you chose two bad examples:
A) There were numerous earlier black powder calibers loosely called 38 but they all had shorter cartridge cases. The 38 special was a new caliber in and of itself developed in 1898 using smokeless powder from it's inception.
B) Likewise with the 44 magnum. The 44 special was indeed a smokeless caliber that had simply utilized smokeless powder in the older black powder case, but the 44 MAGNUM is a new caliber that wasn't developed until the 1950s; also using smokeless powder from it's very beginning (and also had a longer case)
None of the three modern calibers (38 special, 44 special, or 44 magnum) could be safely fired in an older gun designed for the black powder versions. In fact the neither 38 special nor the 44 magnum will fit into the chambers of older guns.
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A lot of modern straight walled and sloped cases have a blackpowder heritage. For example, even though the .38 Special was intended from the get go as a smokeless cartridge, it's case was built just like a 19th Century black powder cartridge case and it's initial loading in the 1890's was blackpowder for a very brief period.
The .30-30 Winchester was a smokeless round from day one, the first commercial smokeless cartridge offered for sale, and was considered a high velocity round in it's day. But it's sloped case is shaped like a common style of blackpowder case of the late 19th Century and it's parent cartridge was blackpowder.
Some changes occurred in cartridge loadings over the years for cartridges that survived the transition to smokeless, such as the .45 Colt. IIRC, the bullet diameter for .45 Colt during the blackpowder era was .454" while all .45 cal handguns now use .451", a bullet diameter first widely used on the .45 ACP which was developed in the first decade of the 20th Century. The .454" bullet diameter was a common bullet diameter of the round balls used in the .44 caliber cap&ball revolvers like the .44 Colt Dragoon.
Blackpowder typically has between 1/3 to 1/2 the power of smokeless powder, depending upon the smokeless it's compared to. So, for a modern handgun you can't really overload it when using blackpowder, if you load it properly. When you are using it in a metallic case, it's loaded by volume and compressed. When you have loose powder and an empty space inside the case is when you get into trouble and you could get injured. The old time buffalo hunters would do a lot of reloading in the field and would tamp the powder down into the case with a wooden dowel as they loaded it. One old time bit of reloading advice was to load the blackpowder 1/16th of an inch past where the bullet would seat so the powder would be compressed when the bullet was seated.
In the late 19th Century during the blackpowder metallic cartridge era (pre-1890's) it was a common practice for gunsmiths to convert cap&ball revolvers to use metallic cartridges. Nowadays, you can order a kit that will convert a modern built cap&ball revolver to use blackpowder metallic cartridges, but blackpowder only, they should never be used with smokeless. A link for that is here: http://www.kirstkonverter.com/
The .30-30 Winchester was a smokeless round from day one, the first commercial smokeless cartridge offered for sale, and was considered a high velocity round in it's day. But it's sloped case is shaped like a common style of blackpowder case of the late 19th Century and it's parent cartridge was blackpowder.
Some changes occurred in cartridge loadings over the years for cartridges that survived the transition to smokeless, such as the .45 Colt. IIRC, the bullet diameter for .45 Colt during the blackpowder era was .454" while all .45 cal handguns now use .451", a bullet diameter first widely used on the .45 ACP which was developed in the first decade of the 20th Century. The .454" bullet diameter was a common bullet diameter of the round balls used in the .44 caliber cap&ball revolvers like the .44 Colt Dragoon.
Blackpowder typically has between 1/3 to 1/2 the power of smokeless powder, depending upon the smokeless it's compared to. So, for a modern handgun you can't really overload it when using blackpowder, if you load it properly. When you are using it in a metallic case, it's loaded by volume and compressed. When you have loose powder and an empty space inside the case is when you get into trouble and you could get injured. The old time buffalo hunters would do a lot of reloading in the field and would tamp the powder down into the case with a wooden dowel as they loaded it. One old time bit of reloading advice was to load the blackpowder 1/16th of an inch past where the bullet would seat so the powder would be compressed when the bullet was seated.
In the late 19th Century during the blackpowder metallic cartridge era (pre-1890's) it was a common practice for gunsmiths to convert cap&ball revolvers to use metallic cartridges. Nowadays, you can order a kit that will convert a modern built cap&ball revolver to use blackpowder metallic cartridges, but blackpowder only, they should never be used with smokeless. A link for that is here: http://www.kirstkonverter.com/
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I've heard people talking about it and it looks more suitable for me, cheaper too. Not a lot of info about it though, I suppose you've seen the various threads in the shooting forums like: http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17424
I've spoken to the people I know with the SGC 9mms and there's not much to add about them; they're happy with them and were all clearly advised home loads would invalidate any warranty.
If you get a VZ58 I expect a full report on it.
I've spoken to the people I know with the SGC 9mms and there's not much to add about them; they're happy with them and were all clearly advised home loads would invalidate any warranty.
If you get a VZ58 I expect a full report on it.
Actually, slightly off topic I know, but can I?
I'm about to purchase a smoothbore .54 Ardesa Hawken gun and was curious to the legalities of shooting a solid ball.
Feel free to start a new thread , we could do with a few more threads.
( You may have no idea how f-a-r this thread went off Topic due to a couple of posters , it took some time for Toddy to edit the thread , so I don't want to give permission for it to drift again. )
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Post #45 is worth a read for any interested parties.
http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/24244-lever-release-uk/page-3
http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/24244-lever-release-uk/page-3
Hi all
New to this forum but thought I would throw my penny worth in re SGC
Have just ordered a .22 semi and .223 lever action from Bob.
They will share some of the same furniture which will keep cost of purchase down
they will be used for small game and rifle range.
will let you know how I find them.
If as good as I hope, I will add a 308 version in due course
New to this forum but thought I would throw my penny worth in re SGC
Have just ordered a .22 semi and .223 lever action from Bob.
They will share some of the same furniture which will keep cost of purchase down
they will be used for small game and rifle range.
will let you know how I find them.
If as good as I hope, I will add a 308 version in due course
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