Sigh.. Another sleeping bag thread.

[Smith28]

Bah. I can use the search function yes. My question remains un-answered though.. I am just BAFFLED at the choice of bags and as a bit of a newby to sleeping bags was hoping there might be some help here.

I am looking for a "3 season" synthetic (although down is looking more and more like a good option) bag for backpacking southern France this September. I haven't looked at every make out there because quite frankly I'm swamped already.. ignorance is bliss.

So since I've heard so many great things about Snugpak I've decided to use them as my "one to beat" and another one that I like the look of is the Ray Mears Osprey - The center zip feature looks awesome and curiously seems to be quite rare.

I'm very confused by the difference in degree rating that varying brands have for different season levels. The Snugpak softie 3 for instance (3 season) is Comfort: -5°c, whereas the Ray Mears Osprey (3 season) is Comfort: -15°c..

Anyway, shortlist is:
Snugpak elite 3
Snugpak elite 4
Snugpak softie 9 Hawk
Snugpak softie 12 Osprey
Snugpak special forces 2 - central zip!
RM Osprey
Alpkit SH800

I know there other many other brands, suggestions welcome but I really want to narrow down this list rather than add to it if poss! Any suggestions or niggles that you've found or heard would be great!!!!! As far as I can tell, pack size is the only down side with the RM bag and that isn't an issue at all for me, considering the price it's at at the moment I'm very tempted..

Please help!

 

[Shewie]

Out of your list I'd go for the Elite 3, it might be a bit of a beast to pack though if it's anywhere near the size of the 4 I had.

Any reason why you wouldn't go for down and save weight as well as pack size?

 

[Lithril]

Snugpack are generally quite optimistic about there temperature rating so be aware of that but their bags get good reviews, not tried the RM one. Have a look at Alpkit as well, their sleeping bags are excellent for a good price.

 

[Dougster]

A Nanok Endurance (if you can find one) are great but sizable, having two zips (either side) helps.

 

[Smith28]

Out of your list I'd go for the Elite 3, it might be a bit of a beast to pack though if it's anywhere near the size of the 4 I had.

Any reason why you wouldn't go for down and save weight as well as pack size?

I was thinking mainly of cost but looking around they are more affordable than I'd thought.. any suggestions? The Alpkit ones do look nice, SH 800 is looking good. Would give me an excuse to buy a couple other things I've been wanting from AK recently too..

 

[Shewie]

I've got a load of Alpkit gear and can't fault any of it, I've got a couple of their Pipedreams which I've been really happy with.

They had a number of Pipedreams in a few weeks ago but I'm not sure if they've all sold out now. They've had trouble keeping up with demand for the last couple of years but I think they have plans to get that sorted pretty soon though.

 

[Old Bones]

I've got a (very old) Osprey 12, and I have to admit, its been a good bag. But the fact is that its 2kg, and isn't exactly small to pack. The Alpkit is 1415g, and is down, so compresses smaller (if your backpacking your going to have to carry it...). When I go for a new bag, it will probably be an Alpkit, not least because the price is so similar, but everything else is lighter. Down doesn't like being wet, but neither does synthetic, and an Alpkit dry bag (the XT's are great!) will sort out most damp problems.

Having said that, the RM is a good price, and the Snugpak have done me well. I have to wonder why you particularly need a centre zip - despite RM's preference for them, they are rare, and that cuts down on choice and probably increases your costs. And do you need such a warm bag? I just checked the tempertures for Nice. In September, it averages 17-24 degrees during the day, with a minimum of 6 degrees even in winter. At night tempertures will be lower, but even so your looking at bags which go down to -10 degrees. If you want to look at 2-3 season (possibly with a fleece liner), then you might save money, bulk and weight. The SH600 is twenty quid cheaper, is 200g lighter and is going to pack smaller, and still goes down to minus 5. The Pipedream 400 might be even better (and is only a tenner more than the SH800) - but its out of stock at the moment...

As for tempreture ratings...how many threads are there about this? It's basically guesswork in lots of cases, although Alpkit feedback seems to pretty good on their bags - its generally what it says it is. Highlander is a bit optimistic, with Endicotts giving one bag a real rating about 10 degrees less than the manufacturer (and I'd believe Endi's), so who knows what the others are like. Snugpak is certainly optimistic - my bag was originally rated at minus 25 at extreme - that was nonsense, and I suspect that minus 10 is possibly pushing it, certainly for comfort (although this is an old bag). It also depends on loads of other things, like if your a hot or cold sleeper, etc. And don't forget a decent mat, they can real help (Alpkit again I suspect).

There is a good article here http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/hill-skills/monday-kit-tip---sleeping-bag-ratings/7092.html , and here http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/sleeping+bag+backpacking.html (the US temp. are a bit confusing for centergrade, but useful anyway), and Alpkit have a section on their website.

There is a review of some Snugpaks here http://www.buachaille.com/c3-25-127-0-0-1/Snugpak-Synthetic-Sleeping-Bags/. and here http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/dt/4/UTN/23688/. And check out Outdoor Magic anyway - the bargains thread is very useful and the reviews might help, as is asking the same question on that forum.

Have fun in France - I suspect that the weather will be better there than here! And the wines cheaper...

 

[Smith28]

As for tempreture ratings...how many threads are there about this?

Thanks for the indepth reply mate, I know I just thought I would add it in there - worth a try eh.

I'm really liking the look of Alpkit bags and since time is of the essence with this I can't really wait for the pipedreams to come back into stock. Alpkit SH800 is very high on my list at the moment. Glad I checked into down bags aswell as synthetic!

Regards to the temperature, not sure what elevations we will be sleeping at and also how late into the Autumn we will be staying -possibly early winter, basically travelling as long as the money lasts and as long as whether keeps bearable. Also, I can always open it up a bit to cool off, but it would be harder to add temperature rating on the fly. Also I'm hoping this bag will last me for years and want something that's capable for more situations that may arise.

Center zip isn't a MUST have, I just think it's an awesome feature. You're right, I think I'm realising how narrowing it is on potentials by making that a criteria.

 

[Silverhill]

Whilst a centre zip is a good feature, there is a good (scientific) reason why the likes of Rab, Mountain Equipment and Alpkit don't really make them outside of trials and one-offs.

We all know heat rises to the highest point, but in a sleeping bag, the insulation traps and retains as much or this heat within the bag as possible. A centre zip not only compresses the insulation around it, it acts as an easy route for the heat to escape, within the highest point of the bag. By placing a zip in the centre of the bag, manufacturers know that heat will be piping out of this at an alarming rate and therefore, in order to keep the temperature rating up as high as possible, they introduce a baffle. The baffle covers the zip and goes some way to reducing the heat loss, and at the same time adds more weight and bulk.

Speaking from my experience of the SF1 and SF2 combo by Snugpak, the centre zip is very good, but not as essential as you may think. For a start, I felt that the zips snagged a fair bit, and secondly, the baffle covering the centre zip was so large that I dare say it when it was compressed it was as big as my Rab Neutrino 200 sleeping bag! A good quality side zip is equally easy to operate from within the bag. Whilst on the whole, the SF Combo is flexible and works very well, I would not buy one again having experienced the many advantages to down bags.

If you live within striking distance of Alfreton, you could pop into the Rab factory shop on a Wednesday or Thursday afternoon and take advantage of some amazing deals on their gear. I bought two bags from them earlier this year at more than 50% off RRP!

 

[Kerne]

I was thinking mainly of cost but looking around they are more affordable than I'd thought.. any suggestions? The Alpkit ones do look nice, SH 800 is looking good. Would give me an excuse to buy a couple other things I've been wanting from AK recently too..

I've got an Alpkit pipedream 400 for summer use - very light and compact and doesn't break the bank. Bit snug if you're a big fella!

 

[Smith28]

I've got an Alpkit pipedream 400 for summer use - very light and compact and doesn't break the bank. Bit snug if you're a big fella!

Thanks mate. I'm spot on 6" with average shoulders and chest so I think - unless they modeled the size and shape from a dwarf - the regular should fit me ok.

After some more research and calling a couple of camping shops I think I'm going to go with Alpkit. It speaks wonders to me when a shop recommends a piece of kit they don't even stock! Alpkit seem to have a truly great reputation not just for quality of products but also customer service, something I think's very important. Time to take the plunge..

Thanks for all the input - has been invaluable.

 

[Shewie]

Thanks mate. I'm spot on 6" with average shoulders and chest so I think - unless they modeled the size and shape from a dwarf - the regular should fit me ok.

After some more research and calling a couple of camping shops I think I'm going to go with Alpkit. It speaks wonders to me when a shop recommends a piece of kit they don't even stock! Alpkit seem to have a truly great reputation not just for quality of products but also customer service, something I think's very important. Time to take the plunge..

Thanks for all the input - has been invaluable.

I'm a smidge over 5' 10" and the Pipedreams are plenty big enough, for somebody just 6" tall you should be fine

I'd rate the 400 as getting on for three season, Kerne must sleep cold as it's far too toasty for summer use for me, but then that goes to show how we're all different.

 

[ged]

... three season ... bag for backpacking southern France this September.

You don't need a three season bag for southern France in September. Trust me, I live there. You can get a sleeping bag for a tenner or less from Aldi, Tesco or somewhere like that which will do fine.

I'm very confused by the difference in degree rating that varying brands have for different season levels.

You can mostly ignore all that. Look at the weight and the types of fibres. For the same types of fibres, more wieght = more insulation approximately. Hollow fibres are better insulators than solid, but are more expensive.

...considering the price ...

You sort of get what you pay for but there are occasionally very good deals e.g. when stores are restocking with new lines. Also worth looking in the classified and swaps sections on this and similar sites.

I'd suggest considering two sleeping bags with different insulation ratings, you can use one when it's warm, one when it's cooler and both when it's cold. Also consider a sleeping bag liner which in addition to keeping the bag cleaner will add significantly to the insulation. You don't have to buy them all at once and they don't all have to be from the same suppliers.

I'm not very fond of the restriction of mummy style sleeping bags but other things being equal they are considerably warmer, especially if they have a baffle and hood.

I'm also not very fond of the 'claminess' of most synthetic fabrics, but since I'm allergic to down I have little choice for cold weather.

A hot water bottle is cheap.