Sharpening question

[sal.]

I've heard some comments about the concept of "sharpening a knife on a rock" while in the bush.

How many of you have or do actually sharpen your knives on a rock?

What kind of rock to you use?

What type of edge are you trying to achieve? (full Scandi grind?, just a bevel that cuts?)

What results have you had?

What are the thoughts, advantages and disadvantages of carrying a sharpening tool?

Thanx?

sal

 

[Phantom]

i dont actually use these but ive heard that japanese soapstones are good- im not sure though

 

[torjusg]

I have done it plenty of times. One can use any fine grained rock. Soft sedimentary rocks are better though. If the rock is very fine grained, like in knappable, it is a little too fine in my opinion and sharpening takes too long.

You can achieve as good an edge as you want, if you use several grades and finish it up with stroking it on some leather.Always use water (spit seems even better for some reason) when you grind, that is easier and the result is smoother.

I never carried sharpening tools for my knives until this christmas, when I got a diamond sharpener.

Advantages:
- Saves on weight.
- Free

Disadvantages:
- Using equipment that is not specialized for a purpose is generally less efficient.
- Accessability, it is not always easy to find ok rock, especially in winter.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Wayland]

I don't do it often but I have on occasion if needed.

My living history blades are sharpened more often with river stones as I can't pull a modern stone out in front of the public in a museum

These days I tend to carry a DC4 for field sharpening of my good blades.

Just as an aside Sal have you ever thought of resurrecting the barrel knife for an interesting project. I've had one for years and it's the best folding design I've ever seen.

 

[Ogri the trog]

I suppose the "concept" is possible,
... but considering the care that I try to put into an edge whilst at home, I wouldn't want to take a "rock" to any knife whilst out in the field unless it was a dire emergency. It'd be like pouring bacon fat into an engine and expecting the same performance as with high octane gasoline. I carry a round, 6 inch ceramic "crock stick" for field sharpening, though I do get anxious about maintaining angles!
I remember trying to sharpen pen-knives as a kid on rocks including the kerbstone of a pavement - the result was good enough to hack through string and spread butter but only if it was melted. There is a reason that I invested in some good sharpening systems, because they work! I don't want to undo all the good work that I've put into a good keen edge.
If it ever got to that emergency situation, I'd look for a fine grained, flat edged rock - perhaps something like slate.

Is this question related to the Perfect Bushknife thread Sal?

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[torjusg]

.... though I do get anxious about maintaining angles!

Quite obsessive of you Ogri....

It is very possible to get very good results by sharpening with the occational stone. And being able to do that increases your flexibility, a feat always useful. Many people are very dependant on their specialized equipment and that really limits your ability to learn and to overcome problems.

Try it sal. If you are worried about ruining the knife, use a cheap one. Eitherway, it is very hard to actually destroy a knife completely. Most things can be readily fixed on a rotating wetstone.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Stuart]

I have never had occasion to 'sharpen my knife on a rock' nor have I to date witnessed another member of these forums attempting to do so.

Most bushcrafters carry a cut down waterstone or somthing like a spyderco pocket ceramic stone or a falkniven DC4 to keep their edge keen in the field and wouldnt use a rock unless it was a dire emergancy.

it is also common to strop the edge of the blade regulary in the field to maintain its edge.

even amongst people who have no accsess to man made sharpening mediums such as the Pennan, Mlabri etc it is not normal practice to sharpen on a rock you just picked up, whilst they use natural rock for their sharpening needs these rocks are carfully selected river rocks which have been cracked in half and trued flat

 

[sal.]

Hi Wayland,

Nice Barrel knife. Actually, I got my first one about ten years ago and was quite intrigued by the design. It's one of those things that you keep on the list to do in the future, but it always gets moved back for another design idea that is more contemprorary.

Hi Torgus,

I have done it a number of times. I used a long thin river rock and worked the "ridge". But I have a fair amount of exprience in sharpening. Before Spyderco made knives, we made sharpeners and still do. We've always felt that "happiness with the knife is found in the sharpener" A sharp knife is a pleasure to use and a dull one, a source of frustration.

While I can use a rock, if I had a choice, I prefer to bring a more effective sharpening tool with me.

Yes Ogri, Does the "ideal" bushcraft knife need the "ideal" portable sharpening tool to ensure a good sharp edge?

So I thought I'd do some research with you guys to see if you really do try to use natural materials found in the bush. (Without some practice and experience, success is elusive). Or do you carry something portable with you? If so, what?

Stuart,

"even amongst people who have no accsess to man made sharpening mediums such as the Pennan, Mlabri etc it is not normal practice to sharpen on a rock you just picked up, whilst they use natural rock for their sharpening needs these rocks are carfully selected river rocks which have been cracked in half and trued flat"

Then I would assume that they then carry these stones with them?

Input?

sal

 

[OldJimbo]

I've never been satisfied with results from rocks, but river silt on a flat piece of bark, wood etc can work well. The trick is to find some silt grains with sharp edges because they haven't travelled far in water and gotten rounded.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I hate bringing this up, but there was a sequence in one of Ray's programs, in the jungle, sharpening a machete using crushed quartz grains applied to a damp stick.

I reckon that as the hardness of your steel increases you have to be more and more dicerning about what you sharpen on. Not to say that you could sharpen on a picked up rock, afterall, blue stone from Belgium, Arkansas, and the waterstones from Japan, all started as just picked up rocks. But like so many skills, its better to find a really good rock and carry it, then have to go searching when you need it.

If you are in an area with a lot of the right kind of rock, great, but many places are not so blessed.

 

[Stuart]

Stuart,

"even amongst people who have no accsess to man made sharpening mediums such as the Pennan, Mlabri etc it is not normal practice to sharpen on a rock you just picked up, whilst they use natural rock for their sharpening needs these rocks are carfully selected river rocks which have been cracked in half and trued flat"

Then I would assume that they then carry these stones with them?

Input?

sal

not in my experience, these prepared river rock sharpening stones tend to be large and each settlement has at least one. If you are travelling away from your own settlement you are often aiming where possible to make stops at other settlements along your route, where you are always greeted with food a place to rest etc and no objection to you sharpening your parang before you leave.

this is not to say that they don’t sharpen their parangs with a rock selected from the river if it has become too dull to use and they are not near a settlement, but their parangs are of a soft steel so it is possible should they need too.

almost all western Bushcraft knifes are around Rc57 and we try to keep them maintained at shaving sharp, sharpening such a knife on a rock you picked up is likely to do more harm than good unless the edge is butter spreading dull

I think the method that Chris mentions:

there was a sequence in one of Ray's programs, in the jungle, sharpening a machete using crushed quartz grains applied to a damp stick.

is probably used to touch up the edge of a parang rather than actually sharpen it, in much the same way that a british bushcrafter might strop his blade on his leather belt before use.

 

[OldJimbo]

There's a lot more to putting angular grains of abrasive on some wood and sharpening, than a person would see at first. There will be a variation in grain size even with water sorted material, and this is compensated for, by grains sinking into the wood. So both grains and wood have to be carefully selected.
Getting water sorted angular grains out of a river here isn't such a problem due to glacial nature of region, but in most places such grains will of course be rounded by the water action.
Lots to this stuff!

 

[addyb]

Awesome thread - but I have two questions because I thought about starting a similar thread but never got around to it.

1) Stuart, you're right, I've noticed it too...but why 57hrc? Is it a magic number? Not too hard but not too soft? If someone wants to give me a detailed in-depth answer to this odd question, I'm all for it. I just woke up, and the coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

2) Ray also uses a mushroom to sharpen his blade and cover a sliced finger in an episode. The 'shroom was sticky enough to be a plaster, but how would one go about using it as a wetstone?

Cheers,

Adam

 

[happy camper]

I tend to take the means to sharpen and maintain the edge on my knife anywhere i take my knife, i usually use a fallkniven dc4, wet and dry paper in various grades (which weighs next to nothing and is superb as long as you have, or can improvise, a flat, hard surface for scandi grind or a softer surface to conform to a convex edge) and a strop of some description for regular maintenance.
I think it's important to be able to improvise if you have to, and it's useful and fun to practice improvised techniques when you don't necessarily have to, but i reckon if you're prepared enough to have your knife with you, there's no reason you shouldn't have the means to sharpen it aswell.

 

[happy camper]

Hi addyb, i think the fungus in question was "razorstrop" fungus, birch polypore, which is the broad white fungus you find on birch trees and it can be cut into a flat section and used as an effective strop to hone and maintain an edge.

 

[Andy]

I've tried the trick of sharpening a larger (also rather soft) knife with a stick and crushed up stone but only as an experiment. I think most people here use either a small stone like the fallkniven stones or wet&dry paper.
I've tried slate to sharpen knives but lets be honest the edge your going to get from rocks laying around is likely to be worse then the edge is ever going to get on a normal trip anyway.

My main thought on this is that spyderco would be best selling a stone that is more course then the ones that come with the sharpmaker. If I had more money I'd have a set of cermic bench stone but I don't so the sharpmaker gives me the different grits cheaper.

 

[Stuart]

Ray also uses a mushroom to sharpen his blade and cover a sliced finger in an episode. The 'shroom was sticky enough to be a plaster, but how would one go about using it as a wetstone?

the fungus he is using sounds like a Piptoporus betulinus aka razor strop fungus
its tough surface when sliced flat makes a good strop for taking the burr of the blade edge, it cannot be used in the manner of a wet stone for actual sharpening

 

[Biddlesby]

Is there a particular layer you have to use like in horsehoof? Or just cut through the thing?

Would be good to have a tutorial on the site, if anybody is willing.

 

[laurens ch]

I've sharpened an axe with a piece of sandstone from a stream, managed put a fairly good edge on it. I’ve had better luck grinding two stones together and making a sharpening paste from the dust.

 

[Nemisis]

I carry two A5 sized foam backed pieces of wet+dry 1 medium 1v/fine for touching up in the field. I keep them in the map pocket of my pack.
Dave.