Sell up everything and live life...

[sandbender]

I do like to be well separated from neighbours...Its an interesting thought as to how close is too close. A density of a few in a square mile is plenty I think.

Over here I live in a flat, however the flat is perched on the roof and was converted from what was the building's communal laundry so I have no neighbours at this level and there are no windows over looking us.

The family place in Scotland has another large house right next to it however the next nearest houses are just under a mile in each direction. The previous neighbour I didn't get on with, nor did anyone else by all accounts, however the new guy and his family seem fine and he is an architect who specialises in designing agricultural buildings, so he's making him self quite popular thereabouts.

If folks respect each others space, both physical and mental then things usually trundle along happily.

"..Port Sunlight were built and were not a little bit like modern cities..."

I hadn't heard about Port Sunlight before, thanks for that.

I think it needs a disaster for some people to realise what's important in life, happened to me 10 years ago. My dad had just died in hospital, then I had to wade through a flood at 3 in the morning in a blacked out street to get home, got home, opened a bottle o my dads whisky went to sleep, woke up in the morning with house full of water, my dog sitting on the arm off my char, my bum 2 inches off the water and a rescue boat at the window, honestly, under the circumstances, the flood didn't bother me one bit.."

+1

"...do you know there is only one thing in your home that isn't replaceable?
"just to clear up this point a little, I'm not talking about anything living like people or pets"
Worth nothing to anyone else and everything " well for me anyway " to me, can you guess what it is?.."

A photo album?

 

[21st century pict]

A photo album?

Absolutely spot on Sandbender, go to the head of the class.

 

[Goatboy]

Absolutely spot on Sandbender, go to the head of the class.

One of the reasons I copied all my pictures to various hard drives and also store them on Picasa online.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[21st century pict]

One of the reasons I copied all my pictures to various hard drives and also store them on Picasa online.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

I have some of my stuff on various hard drives , its the really old pre digital original paper pictures you need to look after most, pictures of parents, grand parents the extended family uncles and aunties from the war sort of stuff, some are nearly 100 years old , pictures with names, places, dates and stuff written on the back, I think its probably just the end of a era sort of thing, and I ended with a box of family photos, me personally I went all digital about 5-10 year ago..

 

[Toddy]

I don't believe that industry or science require cramming people in together. Indeed in the height of the industrial revolution Bournville and Port Sunlight were built and were not a little bit like modern cities. Around here a lot of our power stations are out at sea or on top of our barns…

and the technology that produces those are from factories. Factories that need resources and people….and those near by or having to commute.
You are singularly fortunate that teleworking is a possibity. Factory work is just that, and without factories the vast majority or the underpinnings that make modern life 'easy' are virtually non existent.

[QUOTE}I have no problem with those who wish to live close together but I dont think its necessary or, for me, desireable now. Surely one of the major advantages of the internet is teleworking. What is the need for everyone to waste time commuting? It makes no sense. Once you get there, then, in the days of online shopping, why go into town at all (if you don't want to)?[/QUOTE]

Again, this presupposes that you have disposable income, that your 'employment' or source of that income does not need to be done on-line. That actually puts you into a quite rarified category of people.
Pre Industrial Revolution over ninety percent of the population lived in the countryside. It's less than three hundred years since that all began. The 'rural idyll' of an empty countryside is a modern invention as a result.

I fully agree that I would like more space; but I am of a mind to use that space. I know that neighbours with big gardens are happily having them paved over

Bournville and Port Sunlight were only built where they are because of the railway lines that were already established (industrial revolution again) Both have been sold off to private hands.
New Lanark, like many other 'model villages' became so dated and so inconvenient (because it was water powered and that meant it needed to actually be on the riverside) that it has taken not only massive efforts (and everybody owning a car to get down to NL ) and financial incentives, grants and fundraising, to turn the buildings into modern housing….much like the other two villages mentioned really.
All three were unique social experiments, seemed to have happy tenants, but you note that not every employer was happy to spend such an amount of their own profits creating such places.

I can't see planning permission being given for any of those places now though, could you ?

M

 

[Goatboy]

I have some of my stuff on various hard drives , its the really old pre digital original paper pictures you need to look after most, pictures of parents, grand parents the extended family uncles and aunties from the war sort of stuff, some are nearly 100 years old , pictures with names, places, dates and stuff written on the back, I think its probably just the end of a era sort of thing, and ended with a box of family photos, me personally I went all digital about 5-10 year ago..

I bought a scanner a few years back and scanned some of the more important old photographs onto the 'puter. It also allowed me to "repair" some of the old damaged ones with software I had.
I suppose if you have family that are interested it can be a good way.to share your old family pictures around.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[British Red]

My point is to an extent echoed by your point Mary, you point out that most people lived in the countryside before the industrial revolution. My point is that the industrial revolution is over now. We have very few factories. Shops are closing because people shop online. An online pick, pack and despatched centre can be anywhere. Round here wages are low and space is cheap so Amazon or the like would be sensible to put their new DC in a rural not an urban spot.

Again for those who like them, towns and cities are fine but I think, for the majority, they could work in rural spots. Any office, retail, banking, light industry can for sure. Heavy industry not so much, but there is precious little of that left.

 

[Toddy]

Only if people can actually live nearby though. Teleworking really only works where there is,
a) good internet underpinning; we're on cable, the Boss is on something truly pathetically dire in the middle of Wales though. The financial incentives for the supplier companies come from high sales areas, i.e. the Urbs. That said, the Scottish Government is pushing for good internet access everywhere in Scotland, so we'll see on that one.
b) where the business is actually suitable for that kind of teleworking….try it with folks like Sam who work with elderly folks in care, for instance, or the local cake factories, Tunnock's and Lightbody's.

Where the factories, and we are surprisingly still a major producer and have a lot of factories, are suitably sited, and new ones are not generally given permission on greenbelt or rural lands, and people and the infrastructure of modern life that they want, are nearby, then fine. Reality for most folks is trying to juggle the money they can earn vs the lifestyle they can manage. For many choice isn't often an option.

That said, there are a heck of a lot of folks who really do not want to live in the back of beyond.
I don't, my sons don't, my 90+ year old uncle doesn't. My little brother says he does, but does nothing to arrange his life so that he may.

Each to their own.

M

 

[wicca]

I may be able to add something to this thread. Almost 20 years ago my wife died suddenly, I was within 20 months of having served 22 years + and becoming a civvy. Kids were grown up and I was due a pension, so I sold almost everything I owned, the house, furniture, my collection of sporting guns etc: I had a 35 foot steel Gaff Cutter hull built and spent my leaves and spare time fitting out and rigging her.
Two months after retirement I cleared off, bound for the Mediterranean. Until a couple of years ago I just wandered, Mediterranean and Caribbean, living (carefully)on my pension. Crossed the Atlantic twice and spent some time in the Leeward Islands, and as far West as San Juan, Puerto Rico.

That's just to set a background really, but when I read of people who casually say they want to retreat completely from 'normal' life I often wonder if they realise some aspects of such a life. My experience is that dealing with officialdom/ bureaucracy can be difficult if you do not have a recognised permanent address. Passports, Driving Licences, registering with a Doctor, all manner of minor problems present themselves when you are NFA (No fixed abode)
The problems are not insurmountable, just a pain in the neck..
Lately my State Pension suddenly ceased!! ( I'm a shout off 71 yrs) 'Phoned the Government Department.." Oi where's me pension?"
"Suspended..security reasons"
"Why?"
Apparently a 'phone call was made to a Pay as you go 'phone I owned about 2 years ago by the Department and no reply was received...obviously.
It's taken me a few weeks to get them to believe I am me.. and re-instate the pension.
Photostats of passport, service details, Bank account...(that's another one you need an address for) As the amassing of personal information increases it's easy to 'drop through the net' Who has bought anything on the Internet lately without..email address, credit/debit card details? They even demand 'phone numbers now..and won't take Third Oak Tree on the left or even a boat temporarily berthed in the local marina/Harbour as 'Home'
" Have you got a utility bill you can show please Sir?"
" Err..Nope"...
Tengu's comment about selling up and not being able to afford a house in years to come is very true and should be seriously considered, although I suspect the couple that gave rise to this thread have family or assets somewhere that will solve that future problem..If the sales of their book doesn't make them rich anyway..

Mountainman's comment.."Ask them now, if they knew then what they know now would they do it again given hindsight"...I can honestly say "Yes" to. Absolutely no regrets from me at all. I now have a static caravan in a lovely setting to live in, as hard winters afloat in Uk are getting tougher for a wrinkly, and an area of my own woodland. The choice was, try to afford another house or buy a van and woodland...No contest really was it?...

 

[demographic]

Depends a lot on the money you can make to buy that land before you leave that rat race dunnit.
Its all very well having a smallholding when you don't have to pay a mortgage on it but a totally different matter to pay that mortgage on it every month.

To suggest that its an achievable goal for everyone is naive as the more people that go for it the more the land prices soar and the more time they need on that rat race treadmill before they can afford that smallholding.

Oh and another thing. My brother does quite a lot of building work for pensioners who moved out into a rural idyll and are now not that mobile. Worth thinking about your needs as you get older.

 

[British Red]

All true stuff that demographic, but my point re teleworking was rather to suggest that we shouldn't need to live in cities to work, they are a throwback to the industrial revolution and increasingly unnecessary. Shops and offices do not need to all be in the same place now. Many .com organisations can operate not only outside the city but outside the country if they choose. A lot of DVDs were supplied from the channel islands for that reason.

At one point half my team were in Northern France and half in Southampton. Whilst it was worth meeting up to discuss some things, we got very good at getting stuff done by conference call and video conference, email etc.

When you think how many people work in offices, it does beg the question, in an electronic age, why do they need to be their physically?

 

[sandbender]

"...Driving Licences..."

You cannot have a driving license without an address and the address has to be up to date or they'll fine you. Getting your first passport without an address would (I think) be next to impossible, however updating an existing one is easier.

It helps if you have a family member you can trust who can field your mail for you, it can be quite a distant relative as long as they have a level head on their shoulders and are willing.

I know folks who have 'stepped' out from society. Some are old, some very young and some have families. They all seem to be enjoying their lives, in common with each other they had a generally positive outlook on things, definitely glass is half full types, additionally they all had an ability to make themselves useful to those they found around them, in some cases invaluable.

If anyone really wants to jack in the 'rat race' and move to some remote place to grow cabbages and such, be prepared for it to be very very hard and find ways to make yourself useful to your neighbours. Do this and you should do well.

 

[demographic]

All true stuff that demographic, but my point re teleworking was rather to suggest that we shouldn't need to live in cities to work, they are a throwback to the industrial revolution and increasingly unnecessary. Shops and offices do not need to all be in the same place now. Many .com organisations can operate not only outside the city but outside the country if they choose. A lot of DVDs were supplied from the channel islands for that reason.

At one point half my team were in Northern France and half in Southampton. Whilst it was worth meeting up to discuss some things, we got very good at getting stuff done by conference call and video conference, email etc.

When you think how many people work in offices, it does beg the question, in an electronic age, why do they need to be their physically?

Agreed on all those points.
To be fair, I wasn't really thinking about you when I wrote that. Plus I didn't read the whole thread so wasn't singling anyone else out either.

I'm slightly amused when people tell me that they can do their work from home via the internet/phone though. I can't put nails in from a distance, nor do concrete shuttering, barfitting, work in schools, hospitals, bridges, offices or whatever else from a distance. That's fine by me because...

Thing is, if a person can work from home anywhere in the UK, what's to stop the company from outsourcing to India?
I suspect this distance working in the UK thing will be a short lived window of opportunity and the wages will lessen to the point where its not going to pay a mortgage on a nice house in the country, so we all move back to where we were before.

Maybe.

 

[British Red]

Then again, why employ anyone in a UK office? As an employer if I can stop renting expensive offices, pay my staff less because they can live in cheaper areas, I win. As an employee I have no commute, less expense on travel, suits etc. so I win. Where is the down side?

 

[demographic]

Then again, why employ anyone in a UK office? As an employer if I can stop renting expensive offices, pay my staff less because they can live in cheaper areas, I win. As an employee I have no commute, less expense on travel, suits etc. so I win. Where is the down side?

Yeah, like I said. India call centre's trump back of beyond in the UK office.

By the way I do fully realise that my pay for battering nails into things in the UK will likely diminish when all the officawallas have been outsourced to Mumbai so its not all tea and roses.

 

[boatman]

I was talking to a friend of ours today who lives on a sailing boat normally although it is under repair by him so he mostly lives in his van. He owns a couple of acres but they are not really suitable for the next stage in his life which is the purchase of some land handy for the sea where he can run courses and raise some food. he has skills, both practical and artistic. This makes the difference.

Those of us, though, who are or were working should realise how free earning a living makes you compared to someone on benefits.

 

[demographic]

Those of us, though, who are or were working should realise how free earning a living makes you compared to someone on benefits.

That^ in spades.
Self employed now and I really did the dole for England when I was younger* glad it did it then but glad I'm doing what I'm doing now.



* I maintain that I had my retirement when I was young enough to enjoy it, zero regrets on that one.

 

[Lizz]

I've dropped out a couple of times, and then dropped back in. But that's basically because I worked out how to live on very very little, was willing to exchange work for shelter/food, was an excellent skip picker, was trained as an adult teacher who could teach about ten different ten week courses for any adult or community ed provider, and did so, and in my twenties had parents willing to keep three boxes of stuff and seven boxes of books in their garage. The rest went with me in a rucksack, hold-all and carpet bag thing my granny made. At the moment I'm dropped in but working part time - in a cafe with colleagues who have learning difficulties, on prep for an archaeological dig, and for a youth organisation doing admin and answering the mail. I now own a flat (it's amazing how savings mount up if you don't buy stuff!) but it's let out to mates, and a caravan on a nice spot, and in the autumn I'm going back to college to be a full time student.

I take the whole thing about time being valuable seriously. My lovely mum died in her sixties with a lot of things she wished she'd done, she kept telling me not to be the same. I'm fortunate I know. I'm confident, skilled, solvent and very happy to have less - erich fromm wrote a great book called 'to have or to be' and I know which way I'm leaning. So much so that in 2007 I spent the whole year without buying anything except food, utilities and travel - and I cut my utilities use by half!

Ok, I'm burbling. My husband says this is what happens after about 11 pm.

Good thread, will think about more tonight - thanks...