On that point, I wonder what the difference, to the nearest £Billion of our taxes, between what we pay to clean up after Travellers, and after our mainstream, respectable, Bankers is.
Scottish Travellers
- Thread starter Barn Owl
- Start date
-
BushMoot: Come along to the amazing Summer Moot 31st July - 5th August (extended Moot : 27th July - 8th August), a festival of bushcrafting and camping in a beautiful woodland PLEASE CLICK HERE for more information.
Eric_Methven
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I love the Scottish travellers. Been around their campfires many a time during my hitchhiking forays back in the 60's and 70's.
Listen to this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cidr7t0c6MQ
Eric
Listen to this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cidr7t0c6MQ
Eric
I watched the programme, i personnely find nothing about them to like,also watched the channel 4 version and came to same conclusions, they even admitted on the programme they are prepared to break the law to keep there so called custom's(eg hunting with dogs) they leave the area's they've been staying in a right state,again admiting on chanel 4 versions they poop outside,rather than in there caravans(nice), dont pay taxes, which would be great if we all could do that, they also come across as aggresive. Like watching these show's though,for the same reason i like watching Question time, they get me right wound up!
On that point, I wonder what the difference, to the nearest £Billion of our taxes, between what we pay to clean up after Travellers, and after our mainstream, respectable, Bankers is.
Yes - £85 billion to bail out bankers. Capitalism is fine as long as they're making profits. As soon as they lose, the taxpayer is forced to step in. It's called privatising profits and socialising the costs and is almost infinitely more criminal than what any group of traditional travelling folk can get up to.
Thanks, Mark. I had friends who were caught up in the Battle of the Beanfield. Men and women beaten, children showered with glass as Police smashed the windows of their vans and busses. A terrifying ordeal and a dark day in British law enforcement.
what have bankers got to do with anything? thats called introducing a straw man into an argument.
im talking about a way of life in which you descend en masse into a previously green area, stay there only long enough for the local authority to get the paperwork in order to move them on before repeating the process in the next town.
meanwhile all the stuff thats left behind costs money to clear.
then when ares are made for them to stay, toilets installed etc - they end up destroyed.
so tell me again - why should i respect or want these people around?
No - it's not a straw-man argument. It's a response to the argument that "travellers cost us money", which you've just repeated in your latest post. My counterargument was that institutionalised spending on, for example bailing out bankers costs the taxpayer thousands of times more than that spent on travellers. If you spent time actually reading through this thread this would be clearly apparent. I do not apologise for your failure to keep up to speed with the debate.
I should also let you know, that I have no intention of trying to change your beliefs. Your failure to watch the film in the OP and properly read through the thread, and your knee-jerk and frankly prejudiced statements suggest to me that would be a poor use of my time. I do however feel compelled to defend traditional Scottish travellers in a public debate - hence this post.
Scottish travellers are transient agricultural workers and have been around for over a thousand years moving from harvest to harvest. The industrialisation of agriculture interrupted this seasonal movement although many still engage in the raspberry harvest and other rural activities. They've had to adapt and diversify into other fields such as recycling, construction and groundworks in order to maintain their way of life. They are part of Scottish national culture, identity and heritage. My belief is this heritage deserves public support in Scotland and that these people should be allowed to live their lives without intimidation, harassment and violence.
It is an excellent read, the following is from an earlier thread...
A hard life indeed, I've just finished reading 'The Horsieman' by Duncan Williamson...
Available from independent local booksellers everywhere (ISBN 978-1841586922).
There is much here that would be of interest to 'bushcrafty' folks, descriptions of shelter building, foraging, hunting, lore and language.
"Duncan Williamson was the son, grandson and great grandson of nomadic tinsmiths, basket makers, pipers and storytellers. In this book, he describes his life as a traveller with verve, candour and intimacy, recounting a childhood spent on the shores of Loch Fyne, work on the small hill farms in the summer, walking with barrows and prams and later with horse and cart, the length and breadth of Scotland. He recalls camping with hundreds of traveller families from the 1940s to the 1960s, his marriage to his cousin, Jeanie Townsley, and all the various traditional skills and arts which must be perfected for a man to maintain his family adequately."The Horsieman" is the story of traditions long vanished - of traveller trades, of building tents, of routes travelled and traditional camping sites, of stories, songs, music and cures which have been the heritage and tradition of travelling people in Scotland through the ages. Set mainly in Argyll, Tayside and all stations in between, Duncan Williamson's story is told with great warmth and humour and in the inimitable style of one Scotland's master storytellers."
Duncan died in 2007, his obituary in 'The Times' can be found here.
Scottish travellers have their own culture and communities. The family inquestion were MacDonalds and proud of their name, they originated from Tiree and have travelled all over Scotland as hired farmhands and other hired hand work as Ronnie well described. Hawkers, travellers, tattie howkers were all people who were prepared to move where the work was. Some were Bond slaves sleeping in fields, end of the byre, washing in cow troughs they were also travellers.
The travelling family would never allow any teenage daughters to get pregnant for a house, who never had 5 different fathers to their children as a career.Their sons never left a trail of fatherless children, because their morals and family values would never have let them.
The children are cheeky, brash, wild, fit and healthy,steal the sugar out your tea and then try and sell you it back to you but respectful to their parents and community.
I don,t like the mess they leave nobody does, they don,t pay much tax if any. Are they the only ones!.
I thought the best message came from the old grandfather in the programme. "Even we get suspicious and have an opinion if we see something strange within our midst, we are always the stranger. It takes understanding on both sides and we all should be more open minded."
Everybody is welcome to their opinion on Scottish travellers, to me they are free spirits that leave a wee mess at times. There are different types of travelling communities, its getting harder for them as the common land is being stolen by the local
Authorities.
phil
The travelling family would never allow any teenage daughters to get pregnant for a house, who never had 5 different fathers to their children as a career.Their sons never left a trail of fatherless children, because their morals and family values would never have let them.
The children are cheeky, brash, wild, fit and healthy,steal the sugar out your tea and then try and sell you it back to you but respectful to their parents and community.
I don,t like the mess they leave nobody does, they don,t pay much tax if any. Are they the only ones!.
I thought the best message came from the old grandfather in the programme. "Even we get suspicious and have an opinion if we see something strange within our midst, we are always the stranger. It takes understanding on both sides and we all should be more open minded."
Everybody is welcome to their opinion on Scottish travellers, to me they are free spirits that leave a wee mess at times. There are different types of travelling communities, its getting harder for them as the common land is being stolen by the local
Authorities.
phil
Last edited:
well you appear more knowledgeable and passionate about them than me - to be honest i can see both sides of the coin. and as i am sure you were aware i was just fishing for an argument!
a TROLL !! i've found a TROLL !! a real live one !! ( ha ! now i know what it means, i can find you !! Ha ! )
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b010bbgz/Travellers_Episode_1/
In case anyone wants to watch it
In case anyone wants to watch it
