Scam Warning: Account Hacking and PayPal Friends and Family

[C_Claycomb]

It seems, these days on this forum, the scam of wanting to be sent money for nothing is more prevalent than the scam of wanting goods for nothing. The former gives instant funds while the latter leaves the scammer with an item which they may not actually want.

This might be different if the goods are regularly easily sold luxury items; watches, mobile phones, tablets, laptops, and such. Such things are also desired by a wider audience, so there will be more dishonest people interested than if the item is more niche.

 

[Buckshot]

Thats not quite correct though. If i have to sell by using G&S, i add the % to the price. A £200 knife, is thus a £208 knife. plus postage with an additional 4% of the postage applied. Aint trying to rip anyone off, but i aint taking less money because someone else said so.

That's not the same thing
What you describe is a normal way of calculating a sale price.
It doesn't change the fact Payapl charge a fee for the G&S part of the service they provide.

Separately
From a BCUK mod point of view - and only on this forum, we have more reports of sellers failing to deliver on deals/ promises/ commissions than we do buyers failing to pay, as Mary said.
And to be fair it's only occasionally and it tends to be the same sellers we hear about which says more about the morals of the seller than anything else i think.

 

[HillBill]

That's not the same thing
What you describe is a normal way of calculating a sale price.
It doesn't change the fact Payapl charge a fee for the G&S part of the service they provide.

Separately
From a BCUK mod point of view - and only on this forum, we have more reports of sellers failing to deliver on deals/ promises/ commissions than we do buyers failing to pay, as Mary said.
And to be fair it's only occasionally and it tends to be the same sellers we hear about which says more about the morals of the seller than anything else i think.

My point was that a lot of people would prefer to pay less, than pay more. One backs a buyer, one doesn't allow the seller to be ripped off, and trust me, it happens more than you might think.

 

[Toddy]

But is exactly the point we're trying to make; Paypal with goods and services ensures that the person paying gets their goods or their money back. The seller, the person doing the posting should add those costs into the total, but it's up to them to insure from their end that if the parcel isn't received that they get their money back.

Fair on everyone......and yes it does cost a little more, but it's far safer and more ensured than any other means we've found for posted goods.

 

[HillBill]

But is exactly the point we're trying to make; Paypal with goods and services ensures that the person paying gets their goods or their money back. The seller, the person doing the posting should add those costs into the total, but it's up to them to insure from their end that if the parcel isn't received that they get their money back.

Fair on everyone......and yes it does cost a little more, but it's far safer and more ensured than any other means we've found for posted goods.

You're missing the point Mary. On a few occasions (with me, normally international sales)), the buyer receives the item, and then still claims their money back. Doesn't happen too often, but it does happen. Even with tracked/signed for postage... the recipient will not use their normal signature, and then claim it wasn't them. Luckily, they are few and far between... I think i can count on one hand the amount of times its happened, but it's happened. Last time... the idiot who did it then tried to sell it on ebay... he had his own ebay thing in the US, and it was full of stuff he'd gained in that way. He was also a postman... i got told about my knife being on there... It got reported, he got caught, lost his job and after that, i do not know. BUt when as a seller you've been burned, and somewhere you sell stuff makes a rule that leaves you open to it... on top of that, they periodically keep your money for a couple of weeks for, in there own words... 'for transaction security'. Completely randomly....Well... There's a reason i don't use paypal at all, for anything.

 

[Toddy]

How about the other way ?
The buyer forwards cash as F&F and receives no goods.....and has no recourse unless he takes it to the small claims court.

So, we simply ask; do it right. Do it in such a way that the buyer has recourse if no goods are received.....and with modern tracking and photographs etc., the seller, who ought to have taken the insurance aspect has comeback too if the goods are lost in transport, damaged or undelivered.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I for one do get your point @HillBill. It was a prevalent scam on eBay a while back (might still be…dunno) to receive goods, say they were faulty, demand refund, and return random junk. Receive a laptop…return a brick and get a refund…make off with laptop. I had someone receive some electronics from me and claim it was faulty when it had all been working at dispatch. I lost the payment and the goods. So I do get your point.

However that hasn’t been prevalent here, and since people have been scammed with no goods after sending payment, the previous guidance, warnings and statements have been clarified as a rule. If people start reporting that refund fraud becomes more prevalent, we will reevaluate.

Now, like many rules here, it would take a lot to get banned for not following it. If two people that know each other agree by PM to use F&F, or a bloomin’ bag of used pennies, we are unlikely to hear about it and less likely to care. If you are aware of the rule, and some random member PMs you with a reply to a Want ad and asks for F&F or a bag of cash in hand at a meeting in a dark car park, that knowledge that there is a rule might make you question the wisdom of the deal.

As an aside, just to be sure everyone is aware that as of October 2024, banks are meant to refund money sent in what turns out to be a scam.

 

[HillBill]

How about the other way ?
The buyer forwards cash as F&F and receives no goods.....and has no recourse unless he takes it to the small claims court.

So, we simply ask; do it right. Do it in such a way that the buyer has recourse if no goods are received.....and with modern tracking and photographs etc., the seller, who ought to have taken the insurance aspect has comeback too if the goods are lost in transport, damaged or undelivered.

Scammers aren't worried about that Mary. Fake signatures... That's not my house etc....You think paypal are sending people round to look at doors and check sigs?

 

[Toddy]

Scammers aren't worried about that Mary. Fake signatures... That's not my house etc....You think paypal are sending people round to look at doors and check sigs?

It's a two way thing; scammers are scammers, but buying and selling on the forum is just that.

We make huge efforts to ban spammers, to stop them before they start, but the real issues are folks sending money and not getting goods. So we ask do it safely.

Similarly the seller ought to build the costs of insurance from his side into the sale price.

 

[HillBill]

Spammers are not Scammers. Well, not in the same sense.

How can a forum do something safely, when the forum only takes your money to allow you to sell at all? Do they take money to allow you to buy? No. I'm not a full member atm... but i can see, reply and message a seller... But i cant post a thread to sell, or wanted... until i pay the forum... but now the rules say i either have to up my prices, or take a loss.

So to summarise, You want a sellers money to be able to sell, but not the buyers to be able to buy... and then force the seller to sell by methods which put the seller at risk, and protect the buyer?... So win/win for the buyer... lose/lose for the seller... Good luck with that.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Mark,
Thank you for your wishes of luck, they are appreciated but unnecessary.

I cannot recall when you last sold via the forum, so your concerns over your personal profits seem hypothetical at best. In contrast, despite also having many happy customers, you have had multiple instances over the years of members here complaining of paying or sending items to you and getting nothing back or it taking vastly longer than expected.

If the codifying in 2026 of an instruction that was first posted by Tony regarding PayPal gifts in 2011, then again in 2020, and again by me in 2021, is so offensive to you, you are welcome to go and not stuff elsewhere.
Thank you and good day

 

[C_Claycomb]

Meant to be “not sell stuff elsewhere.”

 

[Tony]

HillBIll/Mark,
As you read something into the thread being removed, I’ve reinstated it, and I’ll add this to it.

Your BushcraftUK account will be banned with immediate effect.

This decision has not been taken because you disagreed with forum policy. Members are free to question or disagree with rules. The decision has been taken because of your conduct in both the public thread and your subsequent private messages to a moderator.

In particular, after repeated explanations from staff about the forum’s payment safety rule that has been in place for many years, you escalated the matter by sending messages alleging slander, threatening legal action, threatening to take the matter to social media and elsewhere, and making comments intended to pressure or intimidate an individual moderator over a routine moderation decision. You even used my presumed reaction to threaten my moderator.

You were warned about your behaviour by me not so long ago, it is sad that this is the outcome.

That conduct is unacceptable on BushcraftUK.

For clarity, BushcraftUK has long required safer transaction practices in its sales areas. Guidance against unprotected PayPal payments has existed on the forum since 2011 and has since been reiterated and formalised. You (general membership) are not required to use the forum marketplace, but if you do use it, you are required to follow forum rules and moderator directions. For those who choose not to, it is a personal decision, and we respect their right not to follow the guidelines we've put in place to protect them and the general membership. However, the consequences of those decisions fall fully on the shoulders (or wallets) of those who make them.

Your ban is therefore based on:

1. Repeated disruptive conduct in relation to a clearly stated marketplace rule,
2. Refusal to accept moderator direction, and
3. Threatening and intimidatory private communications directed at a member of staff.

We will not enter into further debate about this decision via private message or through individual moderators.

If you wish to send formal/legal correspondence, you may do so in writing to info@bushcraftuk.com. No moderator or staff member should be contacted directly about this matter again.

Tony
Admin/Owner
BushcraftUK