Scam Warning: Account Hacking and PayPal Friends and Family

[C_Claycomb]

It appears that the account of @9InchNinja has been hacked and used to defraud one of our members.

9InchNinja

bushcraftuk.com

This type of scam has been discussed at length and for some time over on Bushcraft USA, but if it has happened here before it has been so uncommon that I cannot recall it. I recommend looking at these threads on BCUSA because they have written more than I have or can here.

Warning: PayPal Friends and Family Scam

The new scam is to hack into existing member accounts that are well known and sell goods that don’t exist. This is to take advantage of the trust the member has built up along the way. The scammers try to get you to use PP F&F so you have no recourse. It is the strong recommendation of the forum...

bushcraftusa.com

Account/Password Security

We would like to remind everyone how important it is for you to protect your account via strong passwords and other available security measures. Recently a member had his account hacked and it created quite an issue as the hacker was trying to sell items disguised as the trusted member. A few...

bushcraftusa.com

The scam involves gaining access to an existing member's account, offering items for sale, particularly via PM in response to Want adverts, then asking for payment by Paypal Friends and Family.

Watching out for scams during transactions:
9InchNinja was very active here in 2015, but very little since. The original account holder isn't likely to notice and report activity in an account they don't use any more. You can check posting patterns via profiles.

The photos of goods that were shared via PM had a label that almost looked like a hand written name card, almost but not quite...actually photo-shopped in. The photos didn't show matches when image searched via Google and TinEye, but those searches showed a similar item for sale on eBay, from Ukraine, on an identical and very distinctive background material.

This is why we advise against PayPal F&F.

Protect your account:
In addition to the need to be careful when buying or selling via the forum, this also highlights the importance of using strong and unique passwords. The most common means for accounts to be hacked is when people use the same passwords with the same email addresses and same usernames on multiple platforms. A data breach at one exposes all the rest. There is excellent advice on the BCUSA thread.

You can check whether your email address or password has been part of a known breach here:

Have I Been Pwned: Check if your email address has been exposed in a data breach

Have I Been Pwned allows you to check whether your email address has been exposed in a data breach.

haveibeenpwned.com

Best regards

Chris

 

[Chris]

Is there any reason it can’t be a strict forum rule to only offer Goods & Services if using Paypal?

 

[Pattree]

That would stop me.

I don’t know how many others don’t have any form of PayPal.

My purchases and receipts here on BcUK have all been via my bank.

 

[Chris]

As in, if you use Paypal it must be G&S, not saying Paypal is the only option.

 

[Pattree]

Sorry Chris, I didn’t recognise that “Goods and Services” was a specific PayPal term. (If I’ve got that right )

 

[C_Claycomb]

Is there any reason it can’t be a strict forum rule to only offer Goods & Services if using Paypal?

Rules updated, for what good it will do, since it was already stated here

Thread 'Member Classified Rules - Read Before Selling'

Jun 14, 2021

Before posting your items for sale, please read the rules and guidelines on using the Classified area. They were updated in 2020.

Members' Classifieds Rules

Updated 04/04/2024 - 10 items from 8 items for sale Updated 03/11/2020 IMPORTANT! This is a private, paying-members-only forum for, buying, selling & trading stuff with other members. Neither bushcraftuk.com, Bushcraft UK, nor any of its representatives take any responsibility for...

bushcraftuk.com

Sellers frequently post variations on the theme where they say/imply/ask buyers to pay Paypal fees. This is not following forum policy. Any fees must be included in the price shown.

Sellers shall not ask for payment via PayPal Friends and Family, publicly or privately.

• C_Claycomb
• Replies: 0
• Forum: General Classifieds

• 

And here

Thread 'Selling with PAYPAL as a gift on BCUK, please read'

Oct 5, 2011

This will go into the rules but I'm posting it here first so you guys are aware of it.

Payment by gift for paypal have gradually increased and they need to stop, it's a way of avoiding fees so that the seller can sell slightly cheaper and all's good, but as the transaction is happening via bcuk it's not good and so I'm asking everyone that does it to stop doing it and just add a little to their prices if need be.
Any classifieds that we see that are paypal as gift will be removed and we will not be PMing people to explain ourselves, we'll just bin the threads.

Please note that this also...

• Tony
• Replies: 3
• Forum: General Classifieds

• 

I have the feeling that people often don’t read the rules anyway, and when the whole dealing is done via private messages (which moderators cannot see…they are private) as is often the case with scams, they will do as they please.

 

[HillBill]

Goods and services ups the price by 4% for the buyer... unlikely to reduce payment to the seller. as the price it gets sold at will be higher.

 

[Broch]

Is there any reason it can’t be a strict forum rule to only offer Goods & Services if using Paypal?

But some sales and purchases on here are actually between friends!

 

[Pattree]

Between friends that I can’t meet in a reasonable time I just stick cash in a greetings card and post it.

It’s a system that has worked well for a long time.

The problem is that I have to remember to get cash out of the hole in the wall which is several miles away.

Of course there’s a risk! It’s worked for half a century for me. The next loss shall be the first.

Here on BcUK no one has objected to a bank transfer.

 

[Buckshot]

Here on BcUK no one has objected to a bank transfer.

Indeed Pat.
The issue here is, do we really know who is at the other end of the PM?
A bank transfer is risky because there's no recourse if you don't get your products you paid for. Not a problem if you know the person.
Paypal has 2 options - friends and family (F&F) which has low/no fees and no recourse (similar to a bank transfer)
The standard Paypal option is Goods and Services (G&S). They take a % but they also offer an option to get your money back if things go wrong.
Bank transfer/ Paypal F&F are better for the seller as they take little/ no commission. Their is also no option to raise a complaint if there's an issue.
Paypal G&S offer protection for the buyer at the cost of commission deducted from what the seller gets.

Personally, if a seller insists on F&F or a bank transfer i will walk away - I ask myself why the seller is trying to avoid any comeback? It feels too much like a scam for me.

 

[HillBill]

Indeed Pat.
The issue here is, do we really know who is at the other end of the PM?
A bank transfer is risky because there's no recourse if you don't get your products you paid for. Not a problem if you know the person.
Paypal has 2 options - friends and family (F&F) which has low/no fees and no recourse (similar to a bank transfer)
The standard Paypal option is Goods and Services (G&S). They take a % but they also offer an option to get your money back if things go wrong.
Bank transfer/ Paypal F&F are better for the seller as they take little/ no commission. Their is also no option to raise a complaint if there's an issue.
Paypal G&S offer protection for the buyer at the cost of commission deducted from what the seller gets.

Personally, if a seller insists on F&F or a bank transfer i will walk away - I ask myself why the seller is trying to avoid any comeback? It feels too much like a scam for me.

Thats not quite correct though. If i have to sell by using G&S, i add the % to the price. A £200 knife, is thus a £208 knife. plus postage with an additional 4% of the postage applied. Aint trying to rip anyone off, but i aint taking less money because someone else said so.

 

[HillBill]

Also... G&S leaves the seller vulnerable to scams. Sell the thing, get paid...post it... then a week later the buyer claims no goods delivered.... G&S is risky for a seller. F&F carries some risk for the buyer...

 

[hughtrimble]

Also... G&S leaves the seller vulnerable to scams. Sell the thing, get paid...post it... then a week later the buyer claims no goods delivered.... G&S is risky for a seller. F&F carries some risk for the buyer...

It is important you use a tracked service for that reason. But I agree, any method leaves someone at more risk. In person is of course better, but leaves you with a tiny audience.

 

[HillBill]

So why make rules that target a seller, which leaving a buyer to be free to rip anyone they want off? All they have to do is sign a different name (assuming it was posted signed for/special delivery)... and then claim it wasn't them

 

[hughtrimble]

So why make rules that target a seller, which leaving a buyer to be free to rip anyone they want off? All they have to do is sign a different name (assuming it was posted signed for/special delivery)... and then claim it wasn't them

I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but I'd suggest that would be a pretty major failing of the signed for and SD system if it was quite that easy. The handsets have GPS locations, and also require photos of the delivery address door with name/number. Do posties always do as they should? Certainly not. But I'd suggest the risk is pretty low.

There is nothing forcing you to offer PayPal when you sell. I avoid it, but some buyers are understandably jumpy about not using it.

 

[Pattree]

How often do things go wrong for either buyer or seller?
I don’t do much trading but over a long time I’ve never had a problem.

 

[HillBill]

I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but I'd suggest that would be a pretty major failing of the signed for and SD system if it was quite that easy. The handsets have GPS locations, and also require photos of the delivery address door with name/number. Do posties always do as they should? Certainly not. But I'd suggest the risk is pretty low.

There is nothing forcing you to offer PayPal when you sell. I avoid it, but some buyers are understandably jumpy about not using it.

Mate, the amount of posts i see on local social media groups showing pics they were sent of their goods delivered, and asking 'who's door is this as its not ours' is daily and constant.

But thats my point. Rules should not favour one over the other. It should be left for buyer and seller to agree payment/postage between themselves. With both understanding that there is always a small risk when selling and buying online.

 

[HillBill]

How often do things go wrong for either buyer or seller?
I don’t do much trading but over a long time I’ve never had a problem.

Not often from my point of view. 2 maybe 3 things over a 15 year period.

 

[hughtrimble]

Mate, the amount of posts i see on local social media groups showing pics they were sent of their goods delivered, and asking 'who's door is this as its not ours' is daily and constant.

That is not the same thing as you said you were afraid of happening. In the case you describe, it's RM delivering to the wrong address and can be easily proven that it's the incorrect address. That is not the same as you posted about being worried might happen, namely someone claiming it wasn't delivered to them by signing a false name.

 

[Toddy]

Truthfully, in all the years I have been active on the forum as a Mod, very few deals go wrong. More often it's someone taking money and not fulfilling their end of the deal, that's the issue.

The Paypal G&S is the clearest, easiest to access, most accountable, and most likely to get money back to the buyer, way to deal with things if something does go wrong, that we have managed to find

The onus on the Seller to insure him or her self ought to be self explanatory.
If the costs of that is built into the bill, then so be it.

Postage isn't cheap, insurance is an additional cost, but for a tiny percentage of the sale, it's worth it I reckon.
Be upfront in the sales thread about those costs.

At the end of the day, the forums are places to converse, places to catch up, learn, teach, advise, suggest, build friendships. There are active sales threads, and truthfully I have had some really good stuff from them but at the other side there are just other individual members who are just trying to recoup on stuff that didn't suit them, or to sell something they've made.

It's a balance, and though Tony has said he will provide any information requested by police if asked when things go wrong, the forum doesn't get involved in private sales....we just ask that it's kept safe as possible, as fair as possible.
We used to have a Rep feedback though that seems to have drifted and now folks just sometimes leave a tidy up post in the thread.
Maybe we need to look at that again ?

Be safe, don't rip anyone off, accept that postage and insurance cost money, and we're all tickety-boo