Sand

[Grooveski]

Probably read the idea years back on paleoplanet or maybe even here but it just popped to mind that a stick dipped in hide glue then in sand might make a handy tool for filing antler fishhooks.

Anyone know about sand? The beach sand where I hang out isn't very sharp(it's not much of a beach). Where does sharp sand come from?

 

[Eric_Methven]

Probably read the idea years back on paleoplanet or maybe even here but it just popped to mind that a stick dipped in hide glue then in sand might make a handy tool for filing antler fishhooks.

Anyone know about sand? The beach sand where I hang out isn't very sharp(it's not much of a beach). Where does sharp sand come from?

Sharp sand is mined from sandstone quarries and ground by big machines to the required size of grain. Get a wee bag from B&Q and give it a go. You can also use pumice stone (available from chemists to remove hard skin) ground up as a fine abrasive.

I'd avoid using beach sand as it contains large amounts of salt crystals which will dissolve with the glue on the stick and give a different texture to what you were expecting.

Glue on a leather pad then sand added also works as an abrasive for sanding contours or irregular surfaces.

Eric

 

[Toddy]

Good idea.

No idea about sharp sand though
Would it need to be as rough as sand ? A diamond or sapphire nail file works incredibly well just by being *hard*. Shells can be crushed relatively easily, would they be hard enough to file the bone/ antler. Coral?
I've rubbed antler on a big stone before now to get a flat face. Bone takes for ever to rub down any
Incidentally, I have a stash of bone knitting needles and crochet hooks I don't need, I'll find them if anyone can think of a use.

cheers,
Toddy

sorry, cross posted.

 

[Grooveski]

Get a wee bag from B&Q and give it a go.

Aye, right. I enjoy the rockhounding more than anything. Good info though - so sharp sand is produced?
There was a sand export thing going where I grew up. Think it was for optical use but I guess I figured there was a beach somewhere with just the right type of sand for anything you may want sand for.

bone....crochet hooks

Some crochet hooks have an eye at the end don't they?:thinkerg: Been wondering what to do with the wingbones from yon ripe swan. They have a hole through them, presumably for a vien or tendon. Seemed too useful an occurrence to waste.

 

[bushscout1]

Sharp sand tends to come from deposits left from former river beds, and usually has to be washed to remove the finer silty particles.

Basically the sharpness is directly related to how far the material has travelled...

All sand is just particles eroded from much larger rocks (for example by glaciers, water, wind etc.). It is frequently then carried by river to the sea. Whilst ever it is in transit (both down-stream & then along beaches (coastal erosion) the particles are being 'rubbed' against others which in time rounds them off - hence beach sand is frequently quite soft.

Sharp sand can be produced from sandstone, but this again is just where the sand particles have been deposited & over thousands of years & a bit of pressure from overlain material the sand has been bonded back together - hence it needs crushing to form smaller grades of material.

Here endeth todays topic, next week we'll cover Plate Tectonics and Contact Metamorphism

That said, your best source for a small quantity would probably be B&Q or you could possibly ask for a small sample from your local builders merchant.

 

[w00dsmoke]

For filing work, you would be best, using a bit of sandstone directly as a file I think. From my course in Environmental archaeology at uni I seem to remember a reference to this, just experiment I guess.

 

[Eric_Methven]

Aye, right.
Some crochet hooks have an eye at the end don't they?:thinkerg: Been wondering what to do with the wingbones from yon ripe swan. They have a hole through them, presumably for a vien or tendon. Seemed too useful an occurrence to waste.

If you have a bone knitting needle, or a sharp wing bone from some large bird, you can work a hole in the end and use it for tying down thatch on a thatched roof.

Mary, I wouldn't mind a knitting needle or two. I've an idea to try using one (after a bit of pointing) on a great wheel instead of the metal spike (don't know the proper word) that the fibre wraps round. Would it be strong enough?

Eric

 

[fishy1]

I thought that sharp sand came from moraine from glaciers? As sand in rivers etc is rounded, and therefore not as strong in concrete etc.

 

[Toddy]

Eric, you're very welcome to some of them, but I don't think they're strong enough for the spindle, tbh I've never seen one made from any thing but iron or steel.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[y0dsa]

Not sure about the original question re sharp sand, tho I do know sand is mined for optics at Lochaline, Sound of Mull. Beautiful white beaches round there.

I'd very happily have some bone crochet hooks if they were still going? I'm making some spindle holders for a fire drill out of quartzite pebbles (and whatever turns up in the fields) so could swap if you're interested, Toddy?

Grooveski, those swan wing bones sound great, too: some 9 thousand year old musical flutes were found in China, back in 2000 I think, and they were made from the wing bones of a crane. I'd very happily swap as per Toddy. Edit: just been googling and found a flute from Germany made c.35k years ago from the wing bone of a whooper swan.

 

[Barn Owl]

Come down to the Galloway Hills.

The sands of Loch Enoch below The Merrick are from granite and used by 'herds of old for sharpening their scythes etc.

Tinkers collected it for sale I've been told..

 

[Grooveski]

Now we're talking. Thanks Barn Owl! If one more person had suggested be and queue - (Not that all the info wasn't appreciated).

Just been at the map. Thought you were maybe winding me up at first. If you took a map of Galloway and stuck in a pin at random you'd be hard pushed to come up with a more remote spot.
Always seems to be like that though with stone. It's always halfway up a cliff or on a island or...
...but up from Loch Trool looks do-able. Or down to more like, walking downhill with a pack full of rock does my calves in.

W00dsmoke - Yeah I've got a few lumps of sandstone kicking about. An arrow straighter and some abraiding stones(and the windowledge is worn from polishing tuff) but this is more like whittling a set of riffle files.
Now that granite is in the picture it'd be interesting to see how the sand from Loch Ba compared to that from Loch Enoch. The beaches on Rannoch Moor did seem to have a bite to them in the boat.

 

[steve a]

Sand is classified as sharpe purely on the grading of the sand, sharp sand being at the coarser end of scale, sharp sand has a limited amount of silt contained within it.Sharp sand has a partical distribution of 4mm down to 65 micron.Sharp sand is used in concrete, drainage etc
Soft sand is normally classified as 2mm down, containing more silt, used in mortar,some screeds and render.
Sharp and soft sand names came about by how the sand feels, nothing to do with the source be it marine, glacial deposit, or river deposit

 

[Barn Owl]

Grooveski,
You don't have to do the Merrick,there's a couple of ways up to it from the parking area.
1. Over Buchan Hill or
2. Up the Gairland Burn via L. Valley and L. Neldricken.

Up via 1 and down via 2 is a guid wee walk.

Tom.

.P.S. I'm usually free if you need a guide.

 

[mr dazzler]

Ye cannet lay bricks with sharp sand in the mortar, it wont flow. The sharp eged grain's bond easily
The welsh men used sand on there wooden strickle's for to shaqrpen scythes, bill hook's etc
I saw this on the Ceredigion web site, top stuff.


Pig's fat from Cydweli

And sand from Landyfân

To sharpen often, often

To cut the hay cleanly

Translated from the Welsh, written by David Rees, father of John Roderick Rees, Bear's Hill, Penuwch.

Where is Landyfan?

On the recent feullardeirs thread there was limestone dust used for he same purpose; I use small wood sticks with various abrasive's-autosol, cutting compound, T cut, dried waterstone slurry, grey or white polishing copmound, rouge etc they all work. I want to try brick dust

 

[Grooveski]

Where is Landyfan?

There's a Llandyfan near Caermarthen.
Geology looks interesting. Gritstone sand maybe?

 

[john scrivy]

Mr Dazzler Let me tell you you can lay bricks with sharp sand most rough stone work and brickwork going back to say the roman times was done with a mortar with a course aggrigate and lime and cement to make the mortar -- I have been a Bricklayer for 35 years or so and worked on all sorts of projects - including many jobs rebuilding walls with presavation orders on them because of there age The people that over see these jobs will specify a mortar that resembles something that would have been used originally so to give the best possible match I do how ever agree that laying bricks with a mortar made with just sharp sand and cement with out lime or a plastisizer is difficult to use

 

[Grooveski]

Slowly developing a gritstone fixation.
Must be a 'grass is always greener' thing, as far as I know there's none up here. I bouldered for a couple of hours in the Peak District once though and it's probably the stickiest rock I've ever come across.

Starting to look at it that way. Granite and grit make for good friction climbing so it kind of makes sense that the sand from them may make a decent cutting compound.
Maybe shouldn't have used the term "sharp sand" but at the time it seemed a good description. Sand that's sharp.

Folk would have known all these spots way back when. There are apparently grinding platforms down by the river in Langdale where axes were polished using sand. Considering how far afield the axes made it it's hard to imagine them not trading for the best sand for the job.

 

[mr dazzler]

Mr Dazzler Let me tell you you can lay bricks with sharp sand most rough stone work and brickwork going back to say the roman times was done with a mortar with a course aggrigate and lime and cement to make the mortar -- I have been a Bricklayer for 35 years or so and worked on all sorts of projects - including many jobs rebuilding walls with presavation orders on them because of there age The people that over see these jobs will specify a mortar that resembles something that would have been used originally so to give the best possible match I do how ever agree that laying bricks with a mortar made with just sharp sand and cement with out lime or a plastisizer is difficult to use

Maybe I should of said ye cannet lay brick's easily with sharp sand in the mortar
I've tried it and its nigh on impossible to get the mortar to flow even with PVA or washing up liquid in it, I much prefer soft builder's sand as it squelches nicer like butter. I reckon if ye olde brickie could of chose builder's sand he would of had it, just that prior to canal/train transport you just had to use what was there within a few mils of where you lived and make the best of it

 

[john scrivy]

It was the lime that made the mortar workable Or should i say lime putty to be precise when using a course sand in the olden days I do agree with you Mr Dazzler sharp sand and cement knocked up as they say 6..1 is ok for floor screeding if dryish --try and lay bricks its not impossible more impractiable will work but you need a stronger mix but still crap to use